coming soon to a center near you...

[Mike Hawk]

I remember once when 2 ppl were on vacation 1 on injury and 2 sick, we had 2 supes loading the whole day, the third spent half his time on the load line chatting with the other 2. Half a supe can run our preload but they hire 4...

[pretzel_man]

When this new system was explained to us, we were told about 2 primary goals of the system.

First, reduce text messages to drivers. Use this system to know the current status of service, stops, etc. and don't waste drivers (and OMS') time gathering this information.

Second, reduce the number of rejected ODS events. If the OMS can see where each driver is, what they've already completed, (and in PAS sites what they have left to do), they can make better decisions on which driver should service an on call pickup.

We are tracking these two elements, and so far, they are improving.

There were a few additional goals explained:
- Help the local sort know when drivers are returning and how much volume they have
- Better set up customer meets
- Better communicate to customers when a driver would service them

No one asked us to use this system to micromanage.

That being said, I'm certain that some center somewhere will use this system improperly.

I'm also certain that somewher, it will point out a driver doing something improper.

I believe that the vast majority of our drivers are good and honest. I also believe that the vast majority of our management is good and honest.

This is designed for that majority of people.

More is coming after this with the intent of only helping.

P-Man

[Channahon]

DS,

Read below, as I was interested in what part of the country is there a local agreement that UPS cannot adjust routes on area.

Originally Posted by What'dyabringmetoday???
It would not matter to me how many stops I had left as I would not give work to another driver. Not that I would want overtime, but they can not take work from you and give it to another driver. Go ahead and jump on me, but there is language in the supplement where I work to cover that. Like I said, don't want the extra overtime, but also don't think we should need to take care of dispatching on the road. The great PAS/EDD deal should be able to send every run out with the perfect amount of stops.

Your comment regarding sending help or adjusting the dispatch on route, I have never heard of in my 28 years of UPS. What area do you work in, if you don't mind sharing. I just find your comment intriguing, regarding UPS and your local coming to agreement as you stated.
Thank for any info.

[UPS Lifer]

I talked with a manager recently and he told me about this technology.

The only folks who really need to be concerned about this technology are those folks doing something wrong.

As drivers you do not have a supervisor looking over your shoulder all day long like most other jobs. I realize this is one of the biggest pluses about being a driver. It is difficult to be micromanaged out in the field.

Back at the barn... I always heard drivers say "If you don't believe me, get on the car and see for yourself!"

Well... this technology works both ways doesn't it? You have a record of what you are doing right !! ... and when a supervisor gets on the car with you they usually get off the car with a little better understanding of what you are going through right?

So ... this is not necessarily a bad thing. The contract also protects you so unless you are a dishonest driver don't let the new technology bother you.

[BigBrownSanta]

I think it has another advantage for those above the building management level. Check the AM dispatch against the PM actual deliveries and see how many drivers had to go and take work off another driver because of over dispatch or just plain bad dispatching.

Also, it should show how badly splits are dispatched. We have an area that is a high density delivery area that stays unassigned just so that 5 to 10 drivers each day can be dispatched to pad SPORH. It should also show how many drivers criss-cross each other to deliver splits.

Whether or not it gets utilized by anyone above the building management level and whether or not they care enough to fix the problems is yet to be seen.

[UPS Lifer]

Originally Posted by BigBrownSanta

I think it has another advantage for those above the building management level. Check the AM dispatch against the PM actual deliveries and see how many drivers had to go and take work off another driver because of over dispatch or just plain bad dispatching.

Also, it should show how badly splits are dispatched. We have an area that is a high density delivery area that stays unassigned just so that 5 to 10 drivers each day can be dispatched to pad SPORH. It should also show how many drivers criss-cross each other to deliver splits.

Whether or not it gets utilized by anyone above the building management level and whether or not they care enough to fix the problems is yet to be seen.

Bingo! That is what I am talking about! It puts everything on record and there will be someone down the road that will get it fixed! I guarantee it!

some misconceptions out here:

ODSe will show stops completed/remaining, but it's still necessary to send in your ETA.

since when is job performance and efficiency a private matter? try grieving that one and winning.

work can definitely be moved between routes, particularly if one driver will not be able to finish work under 11.0 hrs - DOT regulations, folks.

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

Originally Posted by Channahon

DS,

Read below, as I was interested in what part of the country is there a local agreement that UPS cannot adjust routes on area.

Originally Posted by What'dyabringmetoday???
It would not matter to me how many stops I had left as I would not give work to another driver. Not that I would want overtime, but they can not take work from you and give it to another driver. Go ahead and jump on me, but there is language in the supplement where I work to cover that. Like I said, don't want the extra overtime, but also don't think we should need to take care of dispatching on the road. The great PAS/EDD deal should be able to send every run out with the perfect amount of stops.

Your comment regarding sending help or adjusting the dispatch on route, I have never heard of in my 28 years of UPS. What area do you work in, if you don't mind sharing. I just find your comment intriguing, regarding UPS and your local coming to agreement as you stated.
Thank for any info.

Upstate/West New York supplement states that in no event may employees displace other employees who have not completed their assignment. Feel free to argue this one out, but I have already made a case on this one. Once they send me out the door, I will be delivering all the boxes in back. If they do not want me out late, they can put less boxes in the TRUCK. Granted, if someone gets injured, passes out, or worse, that would be a different story. They can even the work out if they take the time to do their jobs as well as we do.

[JustTired]

Originally Posted by UPS Lifer

Bingo! That is what I am talking about! It puts everything on record and there will be someone down the road that will get it fixed! I guarantee it!

Hopefully they will also use this system to "weed out" the bad dispatch sups. Just hope that their replacements have been extensively trained in the proper use of PAS/EDD.

[coldworld]

Originally Posted by JustTired

Hopefully they will also use this system to "weed out" the bad dispatch sups. Just hope that their replacements have been extensively trained in the proper use of PAS/EDD.

its not necessarily the pas sups. when they are told to cut out 2 cars at 730, what the heck are they suppose to do. We are really doing our more important customers a disservice when we are delivering their packages one day at 10 and the next at 3. They focus so much on pickup times being in range, hey how about deliveries too...this is where we have an advantage against fedex and right now its being put to waste. If the bean counters cared about the customer as much as the drivers do, fedex would be out of business. maybe the bean counters could put the brainpower into finding ways to retain, and grow the business, instead of cutting back on drivers to properly retain and grow the business.

[JustTired]

Originally Posted by coldworld

its not necessarily the pas sups. when they are told to cut out 2 cars at 730, what the heck are they suppose to do. We are really doing our more important customers a disservice when we are delivering their packages one day at 10 and the next at 3. They focus so much on pickup times being in range, hey how about deliveries too...this is where we have an advantage against fedex and right now its being put to waste. If the bean counters cared about the customer as much as the drivers do, fedex would be out of business. maybe the bean counters could put the brainpower into finding ways to retain, and grow the business, instead of cutting back on drivers to properly retain and grow the business.

I don't disagree with you. In fact, I wholeheartedly agree with you. That doesn't bely the fact that there are dispatch sups out there that don't know the hole from an a$$ in the ground. They take a bad business decision and make it worse. I think even P-man will agree with that.

That position calls for a person who is of higher than average intelligence, can learn the system and wants to learn the system. Right now, at least in most cases from what I can tell, these people are in short supply. I don't know how many centers there are nationwide. But it will take that many dispatch sups with the qualities listed above to make this system even come close to working as advertised. After all.....a system is only as good as the people who operate it.

[1989]

Originally Posted by coldworld

its not necessarily the pas sups. when they are told to cut out 2 cars at 730, what the heck are they suppose to do. We are really doing our more important customers a disservice when we are delivering their packages one day at 10 and the next at 3. They focus so much on pickup times being in range, hey how about deliveries too...this is where we have an advantage against fedex and right now its being put to waste. If the bean counters cared about the customer as much as the drivers do, fedex would be out of business. maybe the bean counters could put the brainpower into finding ways to retain, and grow the business, instead of cutting back on drivers to properly retain and grow the business.

Who does UPS work for? The customer, right? Then who is the customer? The shipper not the consignee. Although in some cases the shipper and the consignee are one in the same. There is no reason to have a consistant delivery time for the corner beauty salon or the census bureau who are not ups customers. Besides many of the big ups customers do have their own delivery times.

[coldworld]

Originally Posted by 1989

Who does UPS work for? The customer, right? Then who is the customer? The shipper not the consignee. Although in some cases the shipper and the consignee are one in the same. There is no reason to have a consistant delivery time for the corner beauty salon or the census bureau who are not ups customers. Besides many of the big ups customers do have their own delivery times.

thats why I said many, not all. many of our larger customers are complaining right now. customers are starting to take notice, like it or not. ups isnt playing this advantage as well as they could. ssi was a big idea a few years ago, but it seems to have fizzled, great idea in theory, but should have been available for many more customers than actually used the service.

[coldworld]

Originally Posted by JustTired

I don't disagree with you. In fact, I wholeheartedly agree with you. That doesn't bely the fact that there are dispatch sups out there that don't know the hole from an a$$ in the ground. They take a bad business decision and make it worse. I think even P-man will agree with that.

That position calls for a person who is of higher than average intelligence, can learn the system and wants to learn the system. Right now, at least in most cases from what I can tell, these people are in short supply. I don't know how many centers there are nationwide. But it will take that many dispatch sups with the qualities listed above to make this system even come close to working as advertised. After all.....a system is only as good as the people who operate it.

yes I totally agree with you tired. It sounds like a very complicated system..for sure, but it works best when you know that you can run a certain amount of cars and then leave it alone, heck with this making 30, or 40 stop cuts at the last minute, that is what killing things right now. Also, it helps for someone who knows the areas, they know what can be cut and what cant, enough for these "pocket" dispatches..which isnt something that ups wants...overlaping routes, extra gas, totally not efficient . even with edd some routes still arent "fluid".

[JustTired]

Originally Posted by coldworld

yes I totally agree with you tired. It sounds like a very complicated system..for sure, but it works best when you know that you can run a certain amount of cars and then leave it alone, heck with this making 30, or 40 stop cuts at the last minute, that is what killing things right now. Also, it helps for someone who knows the areas, they know what can be cut and what cant, enough for these "pocket" dispatches..which isnt something that ups wants...overlaping routes, extra gas, totally not efficient . even with edd some routes still arent "fluid".

I'm not here to defend the system. I've always said that in theory it probably isn't a bad concept.

If you're going to spend millions on such a system, there should be a commitment by the company to implement the system properly and to staff it with knowledgeable people. To date, I've seen neither. What I have seen is a system that was haphazardly rushed into service and then staffed by some that don't have the brains God gave a screwdriver.

I guess I don't understand the concept. But I do live the end result.

[coldworld]

Originally Posted by JustTired

I'm not here to defend the system. I've always said that in theory it probably isn't a bad concept.

If you're going to spend millions on such a system, there should be a commitment by the company to implement the system properly and to staff it with knowledgeable people. To date, I've seen neither. What I have seen is a system that was haphazardly rushed into service and then staffed by some that don't have the brains God gave a screwdriver.

I guess I don't understand the concept. But I do live the end result.

I really doubt any of our competition even want to spend money on a system like this...seems like a waste of money, but you know, they are too broke to get rid of the non power cars, but wealthy enough to get the technology to be able to get rid of their employees...nice!

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

When this new system was explained to us, we were told about 2 primary goals of the system.
I have said before and will say again. I do not know to what level you have risen, but I assure you there are things your boss knows that he/she will never share with you. There are things that his/her boss will never share with them etc etc. You can't let little things "slip" that you don't know.

First, reduce text messages to drivers. Use this system to know the current status of service, stops, etc. and don't waste drivers (and OMS') time gathering this information.

Second, reduce the number of rejected ODS events. If the OMS can see where each driver is, what they've already completed, (and in PAS sites what they have left to do), they can make better decisions on which driver should service an on call pickup.

We are tracking these two elements, and so far, they are improving.
So you are saying you believe that this multi-million dollar system was designed and implemented to fix these two problems? Were these two problems costing UPS that much revenue? Sorry, I find that very hard to believe.

There were a few additional goals explained:
- Help the local sort know when drivers are returning and how much volume they have
- Better set up customer meets
- Better communicate to customers when a driver would service them
I have never imagined that these are daily concerns that could not have been fixed with common sense dispatching and a little forethought. Until UPS became obsessed with squeezing "blood from a turnip" drivers could work a 9 to 9.5 day and go home with enough strength left to mow the lawn. Until the company became micromanagement oriented most customers were serviced within a 30 minute window( I used to have consignees tell me they could tell how long till lunch or to quiting time it was because I was there). Now with the cuts and re dispatches it rarely happens.

No one asked us to use this system to micromanage.
For many managers, no one had to ask them to breath either.

That being said, I'm certain that some center somewhere will use this system improperly.
That being said, I'm certain that many centers many places will use this system improperly.
I'm also certain that somewher, it will point out a driver doing something improper.
You can bet your sweet bippy that many a manager heard a "CHACHING" in their head when they found out the applicabilities of this system

I believe that the vast majority of our drivers are good and honest. I also believe that the vast majority of our management is good and honest.

This is designed for that majority of people.
The same could be said for the repeating rifle and just look at how many have abused that.
My question is: If this system is not designed for micromanagement and/or harassment, will there be consequences for those that abuse the system?
More is coming after this with the intent of only helping.
Ahhh, another question. Helping in what ways?
Look P-Man, I am not accusing you of any wrong doing. I feel that you are sincere in your statements and you fully believe them to be the truth. I also believe that you may not be giving enough cautious thought into the possible mis applications of the technology that UPS is pouring so much money into. I believe there is way more to this than meets the eye.

P-Man

[pretzel_man]

Trpl:

There is nothing I could say but to repost what I wrote.

I attended the meetings and heard about this system for years. The message was the same from the beginning.

You seem to believe what you want regardless of what I say.

I appreciate you not saying that you think I'm lying. Instead you say that there is some hidden agenda that I'm not aware of.

I talk with my boss every day. I regularly talk with the corporate guys that work on these systems and on occaision, I've been in meetings discussing what things the business needs from technology. If these people have a hidden agenda, they deserve an oscar because they're not letting that on.

BTW, here is what's coming:
- They will update your EDD manifest while you're on road. If another driver scans a package that EDD thinks is on your car, they will take it out of your EDD. The same would happen if the package is found as left in building.
- They will also update your manifest if a customer asks for an intercept but you've already left the building.

In addition, a different system is being tested (and mentioned in another thread) that will monitor your safety and on road decisions. There is no question that that one is designed to look for safety concerns and excess miles (like going off area). Its being tested with 1500 drivers now.

Now you have more information. Its the same information I have. You can choose to use it or ignore it. That's your call.

P-Man

[coldworld]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man