FMLA and WORKERS COMPENSATION

[entrado]

Does Any One Know If Your On Workers Comp. Can You Still Get Fmla After You Return To Work?

[#1brownchick]

Yes. Family Medical Leave Act is an entirely separate form of leave from work.

[entrado]

Ill Give You A Little More Info

[entrado]

Thats What I Thought, Till I Got A Letter From The Co. Stating "we Understand That You Will Be Away From Work Due To A Job Related Injury. This Letter Includes Information About Your Rights And Responsibilities Under The Fmla During Your Leave Of Absence".

"under Fmla Eligible Employees Are Entitled To Take Up To 12 Week Of Unpaid Leave To Care For Their Own Serious Health Condition"

"based On The The Nature Of Your Absence Which Appears To Satisfy The Definition of A Seriouse Health Condition The Co. Will Treat Your Absence As Covered Under The Fmla And Will Count This Time Against Your Leave Entitlement".

Im Comming Off W/c But I Just Had My 2nd Boy Last Week And That Means I Only Got The Remainder Of My Fmla To Be At Home Does This Sound Right?

I think employers can consider wc time as fmla time...may vary by state law as well.

[cachsux]

You have whatever the remainder of 12 weeks would be. If you have to fill out the fmla paperwork from the company make sure to check the option to save a week of vacation free from fmla use if you wish to do so.

[trickpony1]

The company would like you to think that you must use FMLA time if you're on WC. The company CAN NOT (notice the capital letters) force you to use your FMLA time while you're on WC. Why would you want to anyway?

I think the company wants you to use FMLA time while on WC so they can say, "oh......he's not on WC, he's on FMLA.". It makes their numbers look good as far as having to report WC time to whomever BUT you end up getting screwed further down the road if you need the FMLA time that you just burnt while on WC.

Isn't great? This is the company that so espouses honesty and integrity but will screw their employees in a heartbeat.

[UPS Lifer]

If you have a serious health condition that is related to the job than worker's comp covers it.

You cannot take FMLA if workers comp covers the health condition. This is almost like an oxymoron.

FMLA is designed for off the job situations.
WC is designed for health or injury conditions resulting from the job.

If WC clears you and says you are OK to go back to work than FMLA will not apply.

[smf0605]

Originally Posted by trickpony1

The company would like you to think that you must use FMLA time if you're on WC. The company CAN NOT (notice the capital letters) force you to use your FMLA time while you're on WC. Why would you want to anyway?

I think the company wants you to use FMLA time while on WC so they can say, "oh......he's not on WC, he's on FMLA.". It makes their numbers look good as far as having to report WC time to whomever BUT you end up getting screwed further down the road if you need the FMLA time that you just burnt while on WC.

Isn't great? This is the company that so espouses honesty and integrity but will screw their employees in a heartbeat.

That is not true. FMLA is a federal law, and the law states: any paid time off in conjunction with an illness or injury, and so, since WC is paid time, FMLA runs concurrently with WC. It's not a guideline, it's not a UPS rule, that's how the law is written.

[softshoe]

Originally Posted by smf0605

That is not true. FMLA is a federal law, and the law states: any paid time off in conjunction with an illness or injury, and so, since WC is paid time, FMLA runs concurrently with WC. It's not a guideline, it's not a UPS rule, that's how the law is written.

smf0605 is correct about this. I went through this and UPS uses this as a loophole so you can't get the time off.

[satellitedriver]

Originally Posted by softshoe

smf0605 is correct about this. I went through this and UPS uses this as a loophole so you can't get the time off.

FMLA must be petitioned by the employee, under federal law.
WC (which is nothing more than insurance) comes into play only if one has an on the job injury,
two very distinct and different subjects.
No loophole is involved, unless, the employee tried to be covered under both.
Why they would want to do that, is beyond me.

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

Originally Posted by entrado

Thats What I Thought, Till I Got A Letter From The Co. Stating "we Understand That You Will Be Away From Work Due To A Job Related Injury. This Letter Includes Information About Your Rights And Responsibilities Under The Fmla During Your Leave Of Absence".

"under Fmla Eligible Employees Are Entitled To Take Up To 12 Week Of Unpaid Leave To Care For Their Own Serious Health Condition"

"based On The The Nature Of Your Absence Which Appears To Satisfy The Definition of A Seriouse Health Condition The Co. Will Treat Your Absence As Covered Under The Fmla And Will Count This Time Against Your Leave Entitlement".

Im Comming Off W/c But I Just Had My 2nd Boy Last Week And That Means I Only Got The Remainder Of My Fmla To Be At Home Does This Sound Right?

You would be entitled to 12 weeks for birth of child, if you are a full-time employee, when you come off from worker's compensation. If you or a family member became ill and you needed more time off, you would be able to do it again as the birth and the illness would be two different cases. You have up to one year after your child is born to take the time off too. Brown supervisors do not like this. Especially if you take November and December off like I did.

[smf0605]

Originally Posted by satellitedriver

FMLA must be petitioned by the employee, under federal law.
WC (which is nothing more than insurance) comes into play only if one has an on the job injury,
two very distinct and different subjects.
No loophole is involved, unless, the employee tried to be covered under both.
Why they would want to do that, is beyond me.

Again, that is not true either. According to the law, it is the employers responsibility to offer FMLA to the employee.

[trickpony1]

Originally Posted by smf0605

Again, that is not true either. According to the law, it is the employers responsibility to offer FMLA to the employee.

It may be the employers responsibility to "offer" FMLA to the employee BUT the employee doesn't have to take it.
It seems UPSLifer, SatelliteDriver and I all agree on this point, FMLA is for off the job issues and, even then, I'm not sure you have to use it.
WC is for on the job issues.

You may want to cite your references to bolster your claim that FMLA must be used while on WC.

Thanks.

Your employer has the right and the responsibility to designate FMLA time if any FMLA qualifying reason occurs. This includes the employee's own serious health condition. If you are unable to work for work-related medical reasons, it is absolutely an FMLA event.

The employee does not get to choose whether or not they want to use FMLA under federal law. (I don't know UPS policies, they may be more generous but do not have to be.) So if you are out on a work comp illness or injury and cannot work because of it, UPS has the right to designate that time as FMLA and count it toward your 12 week entitlement.

I administer FMLA for a living, believe me, I know what I'm talking about.

Your employer can use FMLA for job issues and the employee doesn't get to decide whether to take it or not.

[smf0605]

Originally Posted by trickpony1

It may be the employers responsibility to "offer" FMLA to the employee BUT the employee doesn't have to take it.
It seems UPSLifer, SatelliteDriver and I all agree on this point, FMLA is for off the job issues and, even then, I'm not sure you have to use it.
WC is for on the job issues.

You may want to cite your references to bolster your claim that FMLA must be used while on WC.

Thanks.

I'd like to quote a particular paragraph under the law, but the actual FMLA law is huge. It was a 3 day seminar I had to attend that explained the regulations to us. I don't know off-hand where it is written, but it is.

from: http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=2&gl=us

Concurrent FMLA and Workers' Compensation Employers should thoroughly document all employee leaves with FMLA qualifying reasons. In the event that the employer neglects to notify the employee that the leave will count against the employee's 12-week entitlement, the leave may not later be counted when considering a subsequent request for FMLA qualifying leave. (Although a recent Supreme Court opinion, Ragsdale v. Wolverine, made an exception, the recommended practice of notification should still be followed.) Accordingly, because a workers' compensation absence will almost always constitute a qualifying personal medical leave under the FMLA, employers should make sure that employees who are eligible for FMLA leave and who are absent for work-related injuries are promptly notified that their absence is being counted toward their rolling 12-month FMLA leave entitlement. Employers must respond to the request within two business days. If the response is initially given verbally, promptly confirm it in writing.

[smf0605]

Originally Posted by Load Stand

from: http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=2&gl=us

Concurrent FMLA and Workers' Compensation Employers should thoroughly document all employee leaves with FMLA qualifying reasons. In the event that the employer neglects to notify the employee that the leave will count against the employee's 12-week entitlement, the leave may not later be counted when considering a subsequent request for FMLA qualifying leave. (Although a recent Supreme Court opinion, Ragsdale v. Wolverine, made an exception, the recommended practice of notification should still be followed.) Accordingly, because a workers' compensation absence will almost always constitute a qualifying personal medical leave under the FMLA, employers should make sure that employees who are eligible for FMLA leave and who are absent for work-related injuries are promptly notified that their absence is being counted toward their rolling 12-month FMLA leave entitlement. Employers must respond to the request within two business days. If the response is initially given verbally, promptly confirm it in writing.

Thank you Load Stand

[cachsux]

Originally Posted by Load Stand

from: http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=2&gl=us

Concurrent FMLA and Workers' Compensation Employers should thoroughly document all employee leaves with FMLA qualifying reasons. In the event that the employer neglects to notify the employee that the leave will count against the employee's 12-week entitlement, the leave may not later be counted when considering a subsequent request for FMLA qualifying leave. (Although a recent Supreme Court opinion, Ragsdale v. Wolverine, made an exception, the recommended practice of notification should still be followed.) Accordingly, because a workers' compensation absence will almost always constitute a qualifying personal medical leave under the FMLA, employers should make sure that employees who are eligible for FMLA leave and who are absent for work-related injuries are promptly notified that their absence is being counted toward their rolling 12-month FMLA leave entitlement. Employers must respond to the request within two business days. If the response is initially given verbally, promptly confirm it in writing.

Loadstand is correct on this as UPS recently attempted to retroactively substitute paid time off (vacation) for previously taken FMLA time. Drivers were pulled into the office and told they had no present or future (remainder of 08) vacation time because UPS was counting previous FMLA time against it. We received vacation pay for what would have been upcoming vacations,except for option weeks which were not accrued as this happened in April,and sent on our way. This was fought both with the union as well as filing complaints with the NLRB. UPS swore up and down that this is how it is. UPS lost. We all were scheduled for our normal vacations when they came due,albeit without pay as we had been paid in advance. We were told by the NLRB and the union that the following rule were applied.

If you take,or call in,for a FMLA day the company must inform you that they are requiring you to substitute a paid day (vacation or optional) at that time or as soon as you return to work,at MAX within two weeks. If you are not informed UPS cannot come back after that time period to retroactively take it.

If you are required to take a paid day you must be paid promptly,on that current weeks check or on the first weeks check when you return. If this is not followed the due pay is subject to all pay penalty's set forth in the contract. One driver who had FMLA leave in Jan was told he had no vacation in the April meeting. He, as part of our complaint, filed a grievance for vacation pay with penalties and was given back all his remaining vacation as the accumulated pay penalties were over $16,000.

You are allowed to choose to set a "saved" week of vacation,untouchable by FMLA. This is not your option week unless YOU choose it to be. It is also YOUR choice which of your weeks it is and when you take it,subject to your place in the vacation seniority order. Many drivers "save" a week for the end of the year,but it is your choice. It`s your week regardless of the amount of FMLA leave you have taken.

Your optional week is NOT subject to FMLA for any FMLA time taken before May,be it one week or all twelve. You cannot take or be paid for optional vacations before it is accrued in May,UPS cannot use it as paid time for FMLA absences before it is accrued in May. After May it is subject to FMLA rules.

Basically,for example, you could take 12 FMLA weeks off at the beginning of the year. Out of those 12 weeks you can be required to take any vacation time except for 2. One is your "saved" week,the second would be your optional week. If your an employee with only two weeks vacation then UPS cannot make you take them unless you choose to do so. And you must be paid promptly for any paid time taken.

[UPS Lifer]

Originally Posted by FMLA Expert

Your employer has the right and the responsibility to designate FMLA time if any FMLA qualifying reason occurs. This includes the employee's own serious health condition. If you are unable to work for work-related medical reasons, it is absolutely an FMLA event.

The employee does not get to choose whether or not they want to use FMLA under federal law. (I don't know UPS policies, they may be more generous but do not have to be.) So if you are out on a work comp illness or injury and cannot work because of it, UPS has the right to designate that time as FMLA and count it toward your 12 week entitlement.

I administer FMLA for a living, believe me, I know what I'm talking about.

Your employer can use FMLA for job issues and the employee doesn't get to decide whether to take it or not.

You are right about one thing.... You don't know UPS policies! I can only speak of the Pacific Region and I can tell you that worker's compensation covers job related injuries and illness. At UPS in the Pacific Region, FMLA must be requested by the employee and must be related to a family or personal emergency, condition or crisis that causes the employee to be unable to work. If the employee comes to UPS with a situation, a UPS representative (usually their supv or HR rep) will recommend that the employee request FMLA.

I have personally, seen situations where FMLA was used one day a week to allow the employee to care for a spouse because there was no other reasonable option available.

[BigUnionGuy]

I have not seen the company try to force an employee on workers comp

to burn their FMLA entitlement.... But, if it is non-work related disability

that falls within the guidelines of FMLA....

And the Contract allows them to do it.


-BUG-

[smf0605]

Originally Posted by UPS Lifer

You are right about one thing.... You don't know UPS policies! I can only speak of the Pacific Region and I can tell you that worker's compensation covers job related injuries and illness. At UPS in the Pacific Region, FMLA must be requested by the employee and must be related to a family or personal emergency, condition or crisis that causes the employee to be unable to work. If the employee comes to UPS with a situation, a UPS representative (usually their supv or HR rep) will recommend that the employee request FMLA.

I have personally, seen situations where FMLA was used one day a week to allow the employee to care for a spouse because there was no other reasonable option available.

It's true that worker's comp. covers work related injuries/illnesses, but, FMLA is a federal law and is used at the same time as worker's comp, which is the reason UPS sends a letter to the employee stating such.
FMLA is designed to be used in a number of ways; one can use all 12 weeks in a row, or if the illness/injury requires intermittant time off, that is okay too (the one day a week scenario that you spoke of). Actually, it can be broken down into hours.
It truely doesn't have anything to do with what part of the country you are in, it's federal, which means it covers everyone in the country.

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

Can you please give a reference as to where this is stated that the company can do this?? Not saying you are wrong, just never heard of this.

[smf0605]

Originally Posted by What'dyabringmetoday???

Can you please give a reference as to where this is stated that the company can do this?? Not saying you are wrong, just never heard of this.

Scroll up some. Load Stand pasted the language from FMLA.

[Mike Hawk]

Originally Posted by smf0605

It's true that worker's comp. covers work related injuries/illnesses, but, FMLA is a federal law and is used at the same time as worker's comp, which is the reason UPS sends a letter to the employee stating such.
FMLA is designed to be used in a number of ways; one can use all 12 weeks in a row, or if the illness/injury requires intermittant time off, that is okay too (the one day a week scenario that you spoke of). Actually, it can be broken down into hours.
It truely doesn't have anything to do with what part of the country you are in, it's federal, which means it covers everyone in the country.

If it can be broken down into hours, could you work 24 weeks of 4 hour days then, using FMLA for the other half of the day, to retain benefits/some income after you had a kid?