DIAD GPS

[55andout?]

Originally Posted by What'dyabringmetoday???

Now if you can get the 90% to actually TAKE their lunch. Even better, get them to take it in the middle of the day instead of at the end.

Oh they are taking it....its easy to see on the ODSe...we have the driver ods in when they are on lunch and sure enough the truck doesnt move until they tell us they are off of lunch. Why would you record a lunch of substancial time and not take it? It would be like giving money away. It just helps us identify those that are stealing time. Most dont but some do, and then its the guys who are doing it right that suffer cause of it.

[UpstateNYUPSer]

[quote=55andout?;348998]....Why would you record a lunch of substantial time and not take it? It would be like giving money away. [quote]

It's called running and gunning and it happens all the time. We are required to enter our lunch/break times, and they must total 45/10 mins respectively, but there is nothing in place (yet) to actually check that there is no work being done during these breaks, other than going through delivery records which they won't do as this is actually in their favor. You are exactly right in that these drivers are giving money away but they prefer family time to overtime so that is a choice that they are making. I take my full 45 and 10 but choose to take them together after I finish my deliveries and first round of P/U stops. I know contractually we are obligated to take the break between the first and third hour and the lunch between the third and fifth but they only care that we take and record the break/lunch sometime during the day.

[longlunchguy]

Originally Posted by 55andout?

Oh they are taking it....its easy to see on the ODSe...we have the driver ods in when they are on lunch and sure enough the truck doesnt move until they tell us they are off of lunch. Why would you record a lunch of substancial time and not take it? It would be like giving money away. It just helps us identify those that are stealing time. Most dont but some do, and then its the guys who are doing it right that suffer cause of it.

People are recording lunch and not taking it for the same reason they're in their car 30 minutes before start time massaging the loads. I understand giving the company their money's worth... I just don't understand working for free, either at lunch or before start time. OH! NICE AVATAR!

[trplnkl]

UpState, the parameters that you posted as to when and how much meal/break times are to be taken at not true in all supplements. In the southern, it is one hour meal time to be taken, the times are "preferred suggestions" not carved in stone. Everyday we have 3-5 drivers taking the las 30 minutes of meal time at the building.
Of course it is technically lying when one puts in a meal time and continues to work, it also is giving away money. The only time this will be used against a driver (because it actually helps the company) is when they (management) gets pissed at you for whatever reason. I have heard many times, when a driver has made a sup or CM mad..." Let's check his records". That means they pretty well know that no one exactly follows ALL the rules, ALL the time. We once had a CM that spent most of everyday checking driver records looking for things done wrong. HE was easily pissed off.
When I say, "no one exactly follows ALL the rules, ALL the time", I mean that in many situations if you are following one rule, your are violating another. That may be where to old saying " Damned if I do, damned if I don't" originated.

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by 55andout?

Oh they are taking it....its easy to see on the ODSe...we have the driver ods in when they are on lunch and sure enough the truck doesnt move until they tell us they are off of lunch. Why would you record a lunch of substancial time and not take it? It would be like giving money away. It just helps us identify those that are stealing time. Most dont but some do, and then its the guys who are doing it right that suffer cause of it.

Please explain to me how a driver giving his meal time or sorting his car before start time can possibly be considered as stealing time?
If a driver puts in his meal time from noon-1300 yet continues to deliver, and later in the day spends 15-20 minutes visiting with a customer, do you think that is stealing time?

[HEFFERNAN]

Originally Posted by 55andout?

Oh they are taking it....its easy to see on the ODSe...we have the driver ods in when they are on lunch and sure enough the truck doesnt move until they tell us they are off of lunch. Why would you record a lunch of substancial time and not take it? It would be like giving money away. It just helps us identify those that are stealing time. Most dont but some do, and then its the guys who are doing it right that suffer cause of it.

I don't know how that would work in my center. We don't have to type in when we take lunch until we punch out. So they would just see me sitting there soaking some shade.

[dilligaf]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

Please explain to me how a driver giving his meal time or sorting his car before start time can possibly be considered as stealing time?
If a driver puts in his meal time from noon-1300 yet continues to deliver, and later in the day spends 15-20 minutes visiting with a customer, do you think that is stealing time?

Not necessarily stealing to but it is falsifing company documents. If you spend 15/20 mins talking to a customer then CYA and put it in when you actually do it. This is an integrity issue, and we all know that you can lose a job by lying. Even if it wasn't intended. It isn't worth the risk.
Sorting before start time can be serious problem if you are injured while doing it. All the company has to do is claim you weren't on the clock and there go your work comp benefits right out the window.

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by dilligaf

Not necessarily stealing to but it is falsifing company documents. If you spend 15/20 mins talking to a customer then CYA and put it in when you actually do it. This is an integrity issue, and we all know that you can lose a job by lying. Even if it wasn't intended. It isn't worth the risk.
Sorting before start time can be serious problem if you are injured while doing it. All the company has to do is claim you weren't on the clock and there go your work comp benefits right out the window.

We , collectively, as drivers are instructed nearly everyday to falsify some kind of company documents, mainly to cover the CM's A. Yet when we falsify , even if by accident, our job is on the line and will be accused of stealing.
If you say something that is not true but you believe it to be true, that is not lying nor an integrity issue but will be treated as such. UPS is without doubt the most hypocritical organization I have ever worked for. I know 1%er bikers with more integrity.

[dilligaf]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

We , collectively, as drivers are instructed nearly everyday to falsify some kind of company documents, mainly to cover the CM's A. Yet when we falsify , even if by accident, our job is on the line and will be accused of stealing.
If you say something that is not true but you believe it to be true, that is not lying nor an integrity issue but will be treated as such. UPS is without doubt the most hypocritical organization I have ever worked for. I know 1%er bikers with more integrity.

You are absolutely correct on that TRPL. It's a sad state of affairs.

[IWorkAsDirected]

Originally Posted by 55andout?

Oh they are taking it....its easy to see on the ODSe...we have the driver ods in when they are on lunch and sure enough the truck doesnt move until they tell us they are off of lunch. Why would you record a lunch of substancial time and not take it? It would be like giving money away. It just helps us identify those that are stealing time. Most dont but some do, and then its the guys who are doing it right that suffer cause of it.

We had a driver with a request 8 and he asked if he could skip lunch (he wanted to get to his son's ball game) The supervisor said and I quote "Well, you have to show a half hour lunch, but what some of the drivers do is drive during their lunch" So he is suggesting the driver be dishonest so he can make it. This sup needs to go he is constantly putting drivers at risk of losing their jobs with all kinds of stuff like this. Some of the new guys are going to take his advice and be screwed.

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

We , collectively, as drivers are instructed nearly everyday to falsify some kind of company documents, mainly to cover the CM's A. Yet when we falsify , even if by accident, our job is on the line and will be accused of stealing.
If you say something that is not true but you believe it to be true, that is not lying nor an integrity issue but will be treated as such. UPS is without doubt the most hypocritical organization I have ever worked for. I know 1%er bikers with more integrity.

I'm sorry, but I take exception to this statement. Yes, I understand the negative comments that will come from my saying this. I didn't want my silence construed as agreement however, so I felt compelled to respond.

There are about 30,000 managers and supervisors in UPS worldwide. I'm certain that there is a percent of those that are dishonest, unethical, and only care about their own ass.

There are about 80,000 package and feeder drivers in the US every day. I'm also certain that a percent of them are less than honest and look to get away with whatever they can.

I strongly believe that these individuals whether drivers or management are in the minority and the vast majority of our people try to do the best they can.

I don't believe that the Teamsters condone dishonesty in their ranks, even though it happens occaisionally.

I also know that UPS doesn't condone those acts either.

Neither of us have ever attended a meeting where we were guided in any shape or form to not do the right thing.

Again, I have never falsified a document to CYA. I've never accepted this from people I work with. To imply that this is regularly accepted is not something I can accept.

P-Man

[brownheron]

So glad I'm retired after 31 yrs of hearing ying-yang, back and forth, all the mistrust and misguidance. When it's all said and done " UPS has been very, very good to me.

[barnyard]

I for one, cannot wait till the new GPS tools are used in my center. Almost all of our routes overlap and could/should be redone for more efficiency.

I enjoy working smarter, not harder. Plus, I do not have anything to hide. I stand by the work that I do. I do change from shorts to pants and vice versa, so I would hope that I am not starring on some pay per view site. That would kind of bother me....... or not.

TB

[New Englander]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

Please explain to me how a driver giving his meal time or sorting his car before start time can possibly be considered as stealing time?
If a driver puts in his meal time from noon-1300 yet continues to deliver, and later in the day spends 15-20 minutes visiting with a customer, do you think that is stealing time?

It can be considered stealing time from your union brothers. If by not sorting or running through your lunch would cause service delays or late air returns to the center. Another driver could possibly want the extra work needed to lighten your work or in the extreme another route could need to be put on.

You should only document your break times when you are actually taking it. The board allows plenty of space not to break up your lunches.

Foolish to do it anyway but that way.

[browniehound]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

Brownie:

I've used GPS with lots of drivers. Based on what you said, I "may" ask the driver why he / she took the alternate route. I think that's my responsibility.

When a driver gives me an answer like you did, I thank him / her for making a good decision.

With all the routes I've reviewed using GPS, your concern has never been an issue.

I'm sure that somewhere in the world, there will be a supervisor that uses this improperly. I'll apologize ahead of time for that.

From my experience so far, it has only helped the honest managers and drivers.

P-Man

Pretzel,
Thanks for your response, I feel a lot better now. I just want to get to my route as quickly as possible. On the flip side, I want to get back to the center ASAP once I'm done on route.

Come to think of it, I don't know many drivers who feels differently than me. The ones that do are the ones I loathe. I say this because its always me that has to go and help this lazy SOB with 20 stops at 6pm on a friday. We all know the ones.

The diad gps is great for catching thieves too.

[upsman415]

Our center here in SF is using GPS. Shows them your first and last stop and how many stops you have left. Shows them the whole map of your center and they go by color code beside your name and they just go to that color and they see you...

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

I'm sorry, but I take exception to this statement. Yes, I understand the negative comments that will come from my saying this. I didn't want my silence construed as agreement however, so I felt compelled to respond.

There are about 30,000 managers and supervisors in UPS worldwide. I'm certain that there is a percent of those that are dishonest, unethical, and only care about their own ass.

There are about 80,000 package and feeder drivers in the US every day. I'm also certain that a percent of them are less than honest and look to get away with whatever they can.

I strongly believe that these individuals whether drivers or management are in the minority and the vast majority of our people try to do the best they can.

I don't believe that the Teamsters condone dishonesty in their ranks, even though it happens occaisionally.

I also know that UPS doesn't condone those acts either.

Neither of us have ever attended a meeting where we were guided in any shape or form to not do the right thing.

Again, I have never falsified a document to CYA. I've never accepted this from people I work with. To imply that this is regularly accepted is not something I can accept.

P-Man

First I respectfully ask, just how many years did you work in an operations center as an hourly employee?
I regret that you take exception to my post, but that does not alter what I have seen, first hand, for 20+ years. I do believe that the lines of dishonesty weave in and out of the ranks of UPS employees from the bottom to nearly the top (if not all the way to the top).
Of course the meetings that you have attended have no dishonesty lessons, the success of a good criminal is dependent on secrecy. It's the after meeting personal talks where the underhandedness occurs.
We have read many a thread on this forum where managers have instructed hourlies to falsify delivery documents to hide missed packages, misloads, and a multitude of other infractions. Do you think this is proper or honest? We've read stories where drivers were unfairly treated, harassed without good cause, even fired to have to fight to keep their jobs when it was not needed. Is this integrity? I have never said that all UPS management people are with out integrity, I have never claimed that all drivers are squeaky clean. I have inserted the things I have seen, experienced and been privy to insider knowledge of and followed with my assessment of the underlying attitude of many management personnel. Just how many bad apples does it take to spoil the bushel?
P_man I have alot of respect for you and what you do in the employee of UPS, I have no doubt that you earn every dollar on your paycheck and have absolutely no reason to think you are less than truthful. I do , however, sense that you operate daily in an somewhat protected environment, shielded from much of the ugliness that some of us have seen face to face.

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by New Englander

It can be considered stealing time from your union brothers. If by not sorting or running through your lunch would cause service delays or late air returns to the center. Another driver could possibly want the extra work needed to lighten your work or in the extreme another route could need to be put on.

You should only document your break times when you are actually taking it. The board allows plenty of space not to break up your lunches.

Foolish to do it anyway but that way.

Do you really think UPS cares if one driver steals time (work) from another Union brother? Think again. I've been around long enough to know that the company really could care less if one driver wants more work or another driver doesn't. All they care about is getting it all done in as short of a period of time as possible. There are rules in place that actually forbid re-dispatching routes on area by the drivers without consent from management. People have been fired for doing it on their own.
It is true(in our center at least) that IF every driver would stay out of the car before scheduled start time and would take their required meals/breaks AND file O/9.5 grievances that we would have more drivers on road. However that would take consistency and dedication and more than a day or two to accomplish. In our area, only a dreamer ever thinks it might happen.