DIAD GPS

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

Trpl:

First, an answer to your question....

I spent 3 years as an hourly employee. Mostly hub.
Then, 11 years in operations (Hub, Feeder, Package). I was in multiple districts and regions.
The last 18 years have been in different assignments (mostly through IE). (Deployments, Corporate, Region, etc.)

That is quite a resume, I, on the other hand, have spent all of my 23 years with the company in the same center with somewhere between 70-80 drivers on road daily. My knowledge of what goes on in corporate and district offices is very limited and speculative.

You're right that I see a lot less of the day to day interactions than I saw 20 years ago. However, I've found people and problems to be the same.

You're also right that we all see things from our own perspective. However, I don't feel "shielded" or in a proteced environment. I also do not think there is a "criminal" conspiracy going on that I'm not privy to.
My perspective is based on what I see, mostly on a daily bases. As is your perspective, that only make sense.
My "criminal" comment wasn't meant to imply that there the is a conspiracy, those take way too much planning and forethought. The secrecy I mentioned is to cover up the cover up, not to organize. To qualify the "cover up". A CM or supervisor instructs a driver to sheet packages as "Clo H" on a non-holiday in stead of a simple "CLO 1,2 or 3" so the packages don't show up on the "send again? report. The one and only reason to do this dishonest act is to keep the CM under the division mgrs radar. We all know there are HOT BUTTON or SOUP of the DAY situations that get more attention than others. A district manage has a problem with too many "paid send again" pkgs and tells his guys that this number has to be reduced and they pass it down to the division, division to CM , CM to sups to drivers. This is the type of things we see everyday.

I believe that if you and I worked together, we'd do great. I'd lay out expectations and ask for your input. If I didn't know an answer, I'd say so, and try and find it. I'd do what I say I would do, and expect the same from you.
I agree with that statement, this is basically all I require for a good working relationship.
I'd ask that we improve UPS service and reduce cost as our goal.
Now here is where we might but heads. I give 100% to getting my job done as well as I can, however I am seldom given all the proper tools to get the job done.i.e., early enough start times, crappy loads, illogical EDD, worn out equipment, yadda yadda. Three days a week every driver in our building leaves the building 20-30 minutes over allowed. Crappy loads only start with a misload here and there. When you drive 300+ miles on route, a vehicle that will never run over 50MPH is a big deal. I'll stop there.

As I said previously, I'm sure that there are underhanded management people out there. I believe them to be in the minority, and do not belong at UPS. I will never condone their actions, but I won't assume that they spoiled the management barrel. Just like I don't assume the few hourly bad apples spoil the Teamster barrel.
Maybe it's a regional thing but we have managers here that come from all over the USA and the majority of them were quite skilled at CYA tactics. Couple that with the seemingly innate ability to shift blame to others, is it any wonder how and why some lowly hourly employees get sour attitudes?

I do believe that the bad management apple is tremendously worse than the bad Teamster apple.
I believe this could well be one of those "chicken/egg" egg things to an extent. In my mind the only thing that makes the management end of this worse is the power to adversely effect others lives and believe we have seen this happen many times.

Just as you will say that my posts are only a portion of the picture, so are the posts you mention with the allegation of dishonestly.
OF course, both of us post from what we know, see and experience. The dishonesty I post about is factual, not alleged. Any "conspiracy theory" is alleged.

If you were treated poorly from management, I apologize for that.
There is no need for YOU to apologize to ME, you have never treated me poorly.

P-Man

I'm not trying to WIN an argument here, just explaining what I see and experience.

[trplnkl]

In our center, if you are going to something like that, you MUST call and get approval first or face the wrath of fierce powers.

[DS]

Its great to see management that sees beyond the realm of getting ahead by punishing the hourlies.The comments back and forth between pretzel_man and trplnkl have left me somewhat inspired and refreshed.
I do believe that ups should take a long look at the way they dispense supreme authority to CM's that come and go in quality and quantity.
I also think there are far too many people in management overall.
I realize that production must play a major role with such a big company,and the sales staff would be much more productive if they lost thier suits and made some deliveries.
I'm in a large center,Toronto,and our current CM thinks he's god.
His most recent idea was to fire a 6 yr driver because he had a beard.
He is muslim,he has had his beard a long time.3 weeks off with pay.
I hope it comes out of our CM's check.
But I reside to remain positive,at least until I piss him off.

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

I believe that if you and I worked together, we'd do great. I'd lay out expectations and ask for your input. If I didn't know an answer, I'd say so, and try and find it. I'd do what I say I would do, and expect the same from you.
I agree with that statement, this is basically all I require for a good working relationship.
I'd ask that we improve UPS service and reduce cost as our goal.
Now here is where we might but heads. I give 100% to getting my job done as well as I can, however I am seldom given all the proper tools to get the job done.i.e., early enough start times, crappy loads, illogical EDD, worn out equipment, yadda yadda. Three days a week every driver in our building leaves the building 20-30 minutes over allowed. Crappy loads only start with a misload here and there. When you drive 300+ miles on route, a vehicle that will never run over 50MPH is a big deal. I'll stop there.

Trpl:

You said we'd butt heads on my desire to reduce cost and improve service. I don't believe do. I think I can prove it.

First, I believe you give 100%, so I will not ask you to work harder. However, I will ask you to trade unproductive time for productive work.

For instance...

A crappy load causes you extra time in the car looking for packages and pulling the ones you need to deliver.

Illogical EDD, causes you to drive extra miles and probably spend more time in the back of the car.

Do you re-load your car? If so, that is extra time not spent doing productive work.

If I add up this unproductive time, I'd bet its easily 20 to 30 minutes, and a few miles? Sound right? What if I could fix that?

I'd ask you to use the time I saved you to either come in earlier, or deliver more stops.

I would work to improve these issues as a commitment to you. If I fixed them, I'd ask you to show reduced cost and improved service.

That's the way its supposed to get fixed, and there are many centers doing that.

P-Man

[dilligaf]

P-man, If you could fix the problems that Trpl is talking about in the way you are suggesting without the 'ego trip' that most sups/mgrs (in my experience) are on then, sir, you would have my undying loyalty as your employee. I give 110% and if I had a sup/mgr that treated me the way you are talking I would give 120%.
Why are there not more sups/mgrs with your attitude towards employees?

[IWorkAsDirected]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

I'm sorry, but I take exception to this statement. Yes, I understand the negative comments that will come from my saying this. I didn't want my silence construed as agreement however, so I felt compelled to respond.

There are about 30,000 managers and supervisors in UPS worldwide. I'm certain that there is a percent of those that are dishonest, unethical, and only care about their own ass.

There are about 80,000 package and feeder drivers in the US every day. I'm also certain that a percent of them are less than honest and look to get away with whatever they can.

I strongly believe that these individuals whether drivers or management are in the minority and the vast majority of our people try to do the best they can.

I don't believe that the Teamsters condone dishonesty in their ranks, even though it happens occaisionally.

I also know that UPS doesn't condone those acts either.

Neither of us have ever attended a meeting where we were guided in any shape or form to not do the right thing.

Again, I have never falsified a document to CYA. I've never accepted this from people I work with. To imply that this is regularly accepted is not something I can accept.

P-Man

As I said before pman, you live in a fantasyland. It is company wide vertually every cm does anything and everything to cover their a**. They and the sups are completely dishonest.

We are directed to falsify nearly everyday, from working during lunch but coding it out; to sheeting packages misloaded as futured instead of missed so they wont catch sh**.

[IWorkAsDirected]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

Trpl:

You said we'd butt heads on my desire to reduce cost and improve service. I don't believe do. I think I can prove it.

First, I believe you give 100%, so I will not ask you to work harder. However, I will ask you to trade unproductive time for productive work.

For instance...

A crappy load causes you extra time in the car looking for packages and pulling the ones you need to deliver.

Illogical EDD, causes you to drive extra miles and probably spend more time in the back of the car.

Do you re-load your car? If so, that is extra time not spent doing productive work.

If I add up this unproductive time, I'd bet its easily 20 to 30 minutes, and a few miles? Sound right? What if I could fix that?

I'd ask you to use the time I saved you to either come in earlier, or deliver more stops.

I would work to improve these issues as a commitment to you. If I fixed them, I'd ask you to show reduced cost and improved service.

That's the way its supposed to get fixed, and there are many centers doing that.

P-Man

I want to know HOW you would fix the crappy loads and edd. It sure isn't happening here, or alot of other places from what I read here and other sites. Do you have a magic wand?

[1989]

Originally Posted by IWorkAsDirected

As I said before pman, you live in a fantasyland. It is company wide vertually every cm does anything and everything to cover their a**. They and the sups are completely dishonest.

We are directed to falsify nearly everyday, from working during lunch but coding it out; to sheeting packages misloaded as futured instead of missed so they wont catch sh**.

This is your limited experience...I haven't seen this in the 4 buildings and 2 districts I've driven in. Besides, it is your responsibility to take your lunch nobody elses.

[IWorkAsDirected]

I take my lunch and my break full hour and 15 min every day. BUT I have been told by my sup to work through it and record it, I have also heard him instruct other drivers to do it usually when they ask for an 8 or to code 5, since we are required to record at least a half hour, he has told them well, some drivers put it in then work through it, that way you can get done when you want.

As for the other, it happens daily, maybe you just aren't seeing it, but it happens to cover their butts everyday. No, it is not limited to just my center, read.

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by IWorkAsDirected

As I said before pman, you live in a fantasyland. It is company wide vertually every cm does anything and everything to cover their a**. They and the sups are completely dishonest.

We are directed to falsify nearly everyday, from working during lunch but coding it out; to sheeting packages misloaded as futured instead of missed so they wont catch sh**.

How many centers have you seen?? I've seen a lot, in many districts.

Because I've seen good ones, I wouldn't say that they all are good. Why do you assume that they all are bad?

The root cause of the good vs. bad ones is the local management.

P-Man

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by IWorkAsDirected

I want to know HOW you would fix the crappy loads and edd. It sure isn't happening here, or alot of other places from what I read here and other sites. Do you have a magic wand?

No Magic Wand, just good old back to the basics. This stuff existed before there were any computer systems, and the fix is the same.

First, I fix the load. I work with the preloader and go over methods. How to place a package. How to lip load. When to drop a package to the floor.

I'd review daily any misloads in their load from the day before. I'd audit throughout the preload to ensure that the load was as good as it could be.

I had to do this 30 years ago. Same today.

Next, I go to DPS and work with the PDS. I check for glaring problems in the route, and make "first cut edits".

Then, I bring you in. I show you your route on the map, and ask for suggestions for improvement. If you think the trace can be improved to reduce mile, I adjust (as long as the change makes sense).

Since I already worked with the preloader, the changes to the load will now be in the right place.

I review with you over a few days, and make changes as needed.

This process will take a few weeks, but its worked.

Now, the down side. The local management has to keep this up. they have to continue to follow up with the preloaders, and make route adjustments as needed.

The business always took care and feeding. Just because we have a computer, it hasn't changed.

I've said before, many centers are doing this very well. Their service and production have improved. They don't have peak season crisis' any more.

I know it can be done, but the answer is to get back to the basics and understand that there is no "magic wand" or "silver bullet".

P-Man

[BigBrownSanta]

Originally Posted by dilligaf

P-man, If you could fix the problems that Trpl is talking about in the way you are suggesting without the 'ego trip' that most sups/mgrs (in my experience) are on then, sir, you would have my undying loyalty as your employee. I give 110% and if I had a sup/mgr that treated me the way you are talking I would give 120%.
Why are there not more sups/mgrs with your attitude towards employees?

In a word, trust. Neither side trusts the other. Both sides think "If I fix this problem, how are they gonna screw me with it later on?"

[JustTired]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

No Magic Wand, just good old back to the basics. This stuff existed before there were any computer systems, and the fix is the same.

I know it can be done, but the answer is to get back to the basics and understand that there is no "magic wand" or "silver bullet".

P-Man

The first step is to have a management staff that is as dedicated to solving these problems as most drivers are in servicing their customers.

The problem I see is that it is hard to have a dedicated manager when they are being told what to do and when. When they are being told how many drivers to dispatch regardless of volume. When they are catching grief constantly from both ends. I'm not saying I'd be any different in that situation.

My thought is that if you are going to pay someone to be a manager....then let him/her manage.

I have no doubt that all the things you discuss can be done. I'm just hesitatant to think that they will or ever could be accomplished in the enviroment that exists today.

P-man for CEO

[reydluap]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

No Magic Wand, just good old back to the basics. This stuff existed before there were any computer systems, and the fix is the same.

First, I fix the load. I work with the preloader and go over methods. How to place a package. How to lip load. When to drop a package to the floor.

I'd review daily any misloads in their load from the day before. I'd audit throughout the preload to ensure that the load was as good as it could be.

I had to do this 30 years ago. Same today.

Next, I go to DPS and work with the PDS. I check for glaring problems in the route, and make "first cut edits".

Then, I bring you in. I show you your route on the map, and ask for suggestions for improvement. If you think the trace can be improved to reduce mile, I adjust (as long as the change makes sense).

Since I already worked with the preloader, the changes to the load will now be in the right place.

I review with you over a few days, and make changes as needed.

This process will take a few weeks, but its worked.

Now, the down side. The local management has to keep this up. they have to continue to follow up with the preloaders, and make route adjustments as needed.

The business always took care and feeding. Just because we have a computer, it hasn't changed.

I've said before, many centers are doing this very well. Their service and production have improved. They don't have peak season crisis' any more.

I know it can be done, but the answer is to get back to the basics and understand that there is no "magic wand" or "silver bullet".

P-Man

P-man

This is exactly how the Center I work out of corrected a lot of our problems. Do we still have mix ups and load variation troubles? Yes. But our team of Management and Hourly do pretty much trust each other. (Of course, there are a couple of guys that would grumble every morning if they were in a new package car with a 6 hour dispatch and a runner.)

[pkgdriver]

P-man for CEO

Ill second that

[dilligaf]

Originally Posted by BigBrownSanta

In a word, trust. Neither side trusts the other. Both sides think "If I fix this problem, how are they gonna screw me with it later on?"

I know Big. Sometimes it just gets old, having to watch our backs all the time. Every second of the day that I worry about my back is one less second that I have to take care of my customers. It can be discouraging at times.

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

Trpl:

You said we'd butt heads on my desire to reduce cost and improve service. I don't believe do. I think I can prove it.

First, I believe you give 100%, so I will not ask you to work harder. However, I will ask you to trade unproductive time for productive work.

For instance...

A crappy load causes you extra time in the car looking for packages and pulling the ones you need to deliver.

Illogical EDD, causes you to drive extra miles and probably spend more time in the back of the car.

Do you re-load your car? If so, that is extra time not spent doing productive work.

If I add up this unproductive time, I'd bet its easily 20 to 30 minutes, and a few miles? Sound right? What if I could fix that?

I'd ask you to use the time I saved you to either come in earlier, or deliver more stops.

I would work to improve these issues as a commitment to you. If I fixed them, I'd ask you to show reduced cost and improved service.

That's the way its supposed to get fixed, and there are many centers doing that.

P-Man

So when are you moving to Texas? Oh what I wouldn't give to have a manager/sup that could and would do just what you outlined. I use the word could for a reason, our OC sups are so few and so spread out that they have little time to do the things it would take to fix the problems. If we could just make the upper management realize that taking the time of actually fix problems the need to put out fires would dissipate.
In our center we dispatch between 65-75 drivers daily. We have three OC sups, one a newly promoted OMS that has no idea how to begin running a route, mush less of how to fix a problem ladened EDD (loop dispatch). These poor guys work their butts off 12 hours a day. Our preload sups can't teach the loaders anything because they can't do it themselves anyway. Blind leading the blind.
I basically cover about 5 routes and don't feel like I should start messing with the EDD of someone else's area.
My main frustration is and has been for many years is that upper management knows what needs to be done, but they don't seem to be willing to "take the bull by the horns". Their main concern is staying off the "lists" anyway they can get by with. I dream of the money UPS would save if all CMs would approach things as you outlined.

[dilligaf]

Originally Posted by trplnkl