Is there a push to save fuel?

[trplnkl]

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Englander
We seem to always forget - The Teamsters AND UPS agreed to the contract language. It's written right there.

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

While they may indeed have agreed to the contract language, do you think they did it happily or was it perhaps a trade-off (contract concession) for another portion of the contract?

New England is correct this time. It's irrelevant if either party as happy bout the "trade offs", the fact IS both parties signed. They are going to hold the hourlies accountable for things we don't like about the contract, we have the right (if not obligation) to hold them accountable also.

[Bubblehead]

Originally Posted by outamyway

Yes you should be getting top rate driver pay(it's $28.15 here)for the WHOLE day, including preload time.

It is your right to file but you will likely stir up a lot of if you do. $22 an hour,8 hours a day, 40 hours a week, seems like a pretty good gig to me.

Also, there is a code for shuttling, it's on the last page of the codes list in the other work section. I'd hate for them to fire you because you're on road washing cars.

AMEN!!! Outamyway hit it on the head. Sounds to me like employees are being instructed to falsify records. Surely "wash" cannot be equated as "shuttle" work. The 22/3 guy should file for top pay and a full time driver should file as well, at time and a half for time spent by the 22/3 guy working outside of his classification.

[Bubblehead]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Englander
We seem to always forget - The Teamsters AND UPS agreed to the contract language. It's written right there.



New England is correct this time. It's irrelevant if either party as happy bout the "trade offs", the fact IS both parties signed. They are going to hold the hourlies accountable for things we don't like about the contract, we have the right (if not obligation) to hold them accountable also.

AMEN again!!!

[outamyway]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead

AMEN!!! Outamyway hit it on the head. Sounds to me like employees are being instructed to falsify records. Surely "wash" cannot be equated as "shuttle" work. The 22/3 guy should file for top pay and a full time driver should file as well, at time and a half for time spent by the 22/3 guy working outside of his classification.

The point I was trying to make is, if he starts filing grievances, they may decide he is a liability at UPS. They may try to find dirt on him and send him out the door. This has been happening at our building for some time. The union here is weak. I won't go into details.

If they check back and find out he has been coding his on road time as preload time, which is the higher rate for him, they could easily say he is falsifying his time and could decide to terminate him. Whether a supervisor told him to do this or not is irrelevant. Do you think the sup that told him to do it, if that is the case, would defend him if the sup was confronted about it?

I think not.

[New Englander]

Originally Posted by outamyway

The point I was trying to make is, if he starts filing grievances, they may decide he is a liability at UPS. They may try to find dirt on him and send him out the door. This has been happening at our building for some time. The union here is weak. I won't go into details.

If they check back and find out he has been coding his on road time as preload time, which is the higher rate for him, they could easily say he is falsifying his time and could decide to terminate him. Whether a supervisor told him to do this or not is irrelevant. Do you think the sup that told him to do it, if that is the case, would defend him if the sup was confronted about it?

I think not.

It's not really that hard to do our job correctly and not worry some one is going to find "dirt" on us. Unless it's a cardinal sin he isn't going to get fired the first time. It's got to be documented. That is a perfect wake up call to fix the problem as an employee.

Trust me....your Union isn't that weak. I think it's more of a personal desire not to file. We all get that feeling. Though it is in his right to file and honestly I'd be telling them if I'm running ground misloads for you I need to get ground pay.

[outamyway]

Originally Posted by New Englander

It's not really that hard to do our job correctly and not worry some one is going to find "dirt" on us. Unless it's a cardinal sin he isn't going to get fired the first time. It's got to be documented. That is a perfect wake up call to fix the problem as an employee.

Trust me....your Union isn't that weak. I think it's more of a personal desire not to file. We all get that feeling. Though it is in his right to file and honestly I'd be telling them if I'm running ground misloads for you I need to get ground pay.

It's won't make any difference right now anyways because very few, if any, grievances are being paid. Many of them are being swept under the rug as per a higher uppers request.

I have filed a while ago along friend of mine on supervisors taking out bulk stops. This was before the head hunting started though. My friend inquired about our grievances when he was at the union hall applying for convention work, and the BA told him those grievances were not valid because we had no proof. I gave the printed time cards to my steward when we handed him our grievances. Both supervisors names were on the time cards. That doesn't fly with me. That is my personal experience with our weak union. There are many other issues other people have had since and I could go on and on about them.

If nothing changes after the November election, I will stop paying union dues. I will not pay for their ty representation and lack of support. I sure as hell don't want my dues going toward the gigantic raises a couple of the union reps gave them selves a few months ago.

Originally Posted by 1989

Air drivers can deliver 2day too. They just can't deliver ground, but our air drivers shuttle ground to driver. They shuttle air and ground together. They also shuttle misloads.

the whole air driver/ground driver designations are stupid and create excess miles. the air vs ground route stupidity is causing many of the problems you're seeing with pas/edd.

[Bubblehead]

Originally Posted by seriously

the whole air driver/ground driver designations are stupid and create excess miles. the air vs ground route stupidity is causing many of the problems you're seeing with pas/edd.

YOU MUST BE JOKING!!!

This makes no sense at all. On the delivery end an air exception drivers' soul contractual purpose is to deliver air packages that cannot by serviced within the time commitments of their service level. The excess miles driven by air exception drivers are necessary and very profitable. Without these extra drivers premium packages would be late. How this can be equated to PAS/EDD problems is beyond me. Bottom line is air drivers are not managements' "bench players" or cleanup detail. Fact is when part timers are permitted to do this illegal, supplementary work, PAS/EDD is made to look better than it is.

Ask yourself this; if management could use part timers without repercussion to deliver ground packages, how many full time jobs would be lost?

[mattwtrs]

Now the local radio stations are asking UPS drivers to call in about the right turn only news. I guess the 3 million gallons of fuel saved is getting everyone's attention. I wonder how much fuel REALLY would have been saved if there were no misloads?

[brownrodster]

If their is a push to save fuel it's counteracted by the OMS who constantly ask you to go way out of your way, wasting many gallons of fuel, to make second attempts on packages...

[brownIEman]

Originally Posted by upsdude

I've done that myself, no one asked, I offered.

Again, not trying to start anything, just wondering.


Here’s a scenario to think about. You me or anyone else is driving our POV with a package to be dropped off somewhere. We have an accident with serious injuries to ourselves or the other party. Imagine the can of worms those in the legal profession will open.

If you are on the clock doing work for UPS, I doubt the courts would recognize much of a distinction between using your own vehicle or UPS. UPS would definately share in any liability, no question.

As to your original question about DOT violations. My understanding is the answer would be no, this would not be a DOT violation even if the person taking packages around did not have a DOT card. The DOT card requirement I believe is based on the vehicle driven, not what is in the vehicle. In fact a few months back one of the news stories on the browncafe home page was about a driver who succesfully sued to get his driving position back even though a medical condition prevented him from getting a DOT card. The court found that since the package car he drove for his particular route was less than the 10,000 pounds or whatever weight it is that requires a DOT card, UPS could not keep him from his driving possition based on the fact that he could not get a DOT card.

[dilligaf]

[quote=brownIEman;362047]If you are on the clock doing work for UPS, I doubt the courts would recognize much of a distinction between using your own vehicle or UPS. UPS would definately share in any liability, no question.[quote]

Yes, certainly if you are being paid (while driving your own wehicle or UPS's) UPS would share in the liability.

[quote]As to your original question about DOT violations. My understanding is the answer would be no, this would not be a DOT violation even if the person taking packages around did not have a DOT card. The DOT card requirement I believe is based on the vehicle driven, not what is in the vehicle.[quote]

There are different factors that are invovled in DOT requirements. Vehicle size is only one. There is a difference also in the vehicle type. Any vehicle operating air systems as in air brakes requires not only a DOT medical card but also a CDL. Since UPS operates both types of vehicles (pkg cars don't have air systems) it makes sense for them to require all drivers to have DOT card.

In fact a few months back one of the news stories on the browncafe home page was about a driver who succesfully sued to get his driving position back even though a medical condition prevented him from getting a DOT card. The court found that since the package car he drove for his particular route was less than the 10,000 pounds or whatever weight it is that requires a DOT card, UPS could not keep him from his driving possition based on the fact that he could not get a DOT card.

edited
Ah, after rereading several times I figured out what you were saying here. And yes I agree. Pkg cars, techincally, do not require DOT cards.

[broncobros1]

Originally Posted by trickpony1

The manufacturer states the engine should be run for 3 minutes before shutting it off in order to cool the turbo. We are told to shut it off immediately to save fuel. If we are doing something simple like hooking/unhooking from a trailer we are still instructed to turn it off. This causes the turbo to get hot and unnecessary cycles on the $500 starter (this doesn't include labor costs and tractor down time) causes wear and tear and decreases the life of the starter and turbo.
I have talked to knowledgeable people who say that, at idle, a tractor burns .75 to1.00 gallon of fuel.
I would gladly pay my dispatcher $4 a day for 60 minutes of idle time to keep the turbo, starter and me (air conditioner) cool but then you have to consider who we are dealing with.

I think that the point your missing is that the truck is not your property and that the company can dictate to you, (as an employee) what you can and can't do in their property.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead

YOU MUST BE JOKING!!!

This makes no sense at all. On the delivery end an air exception drivers' soul contractual purpose is to deliver air packages that cannot by serviced within the time commitments of their service level. The excess miles driven by air exception drivers are necessary and very profitable. Without these extra drivers premium packages would be late. How this can be equated to PAS/EDD problems is beyond me. Bottom line is air drivers are not managements' "bench players" or cleanup detail. Fact is when part timers are permitted to do this illegal, supplementary work, PAS/EDD is made to look better than it is.

Ask yourself this; if management could use part timers without repercussion to deliver ground packages, how many full time jobs would be lost?

the math is pretty simple. forget the management vs hourly blah blah...

one driver for air packages + different driver for ground packages = extra trip = stupid.

[outamyway]

Originally Posted by seriously

the math is pretty simple. forget the management vs hourly blah blah...

one driver for air packages + different driver for ground packages = extra trip = stupid.

Yeah and the "air" driver has 40 stops of 10:30 air to deliver. Sounds like the perfect plan.

[Bubblehead]

Originally Posted by seriously

the math is pretty simple. forget the management vs hourly blah blah...

one driver for air packages + different driver for ground packages = extra trip = stupid.

WOW,
You are missing the point (at the very least), so I'll try again. If I'm a full time driver with a route that has 20 air stops with a 10:30 commit. I can only deliver 15 before 10:30. What do we do with the other 5 highly profitable air packages. No choice send an air driver....you know what never mind Corky.

[vanbc]

Let me think about this.
UPS makes "Three (3)" delivery attempts?!
No. There is no push to save gas.
I burn maybe 1/8 tank of diesel per day but lo and behold, she is filled up every night.
No. There is no push to save gas.

[outamyway]

Originally Posted by vanbc

Let me think about this.
"Three (3)" delivery attempts?! No. There is no push to save gas.
I burn maybe 1/8 tank of diesel per day but lo and behold, she is filled up every night.
No. There is no push to save gas.

3? Hell, I've had to make 4 attempts a couple times in the last month.

You can't write Clo 3 big enough for some clerks.

[satellitedriver]

Originally Posted by brownIEman

If you are on the clock doing work for UPS, I doubt the courts would recognize much of a distinction between using your own vehicle or UPS. UPS would definately share in any liability, no question.

As to your original question about DOT violations. My understanding is the answer would be no, this would not be a DOT violation even if the person taking packages around did not have a DOT card. The DOT card requirement I believe is based on the vehicle driven, not what is in the vehicle. In fact a few months back one of the news stories on the browncafe home page was about a driver who succesfully sued to get his driving position back even though a medical condition prevented him from getting a DOT card. The court found that since the package car he drove for his particular route was less than the 10,000 pounds or whatever weight it is that requires a DOT card, UPS could not keep him from his driving possition based on the fact that he could not get a DOT card.

Very interesting.
I did not know that.
This fact (if it is true) could apply to many drivers.
Is it a condition of employment with UPS that one must be able to pass a DOT physical?
I always assumed it was.

[1989]

There are different factors that are invovled in DOT requirements. Vehicle size is only one. There is a difference also in the vehicle type. Any vehicle operating air systems as in air brakes requires not only a DOT medical card but also a CDL. Since UPS operates both types of vehicles (pkg cars don't have air systems) it makes sense for them to require all drivers to have DOT card.


UPS has many cars with air brakes that don't require a CDL because they are under the DOT weight limit. We call them cage cars. They can hold 2 air huts/igloos. You can wheel 8 pallets straight in.