Insubordination!!!!!

[sx2700]

Originally Posted by WhatPCM

I am being honest. What do i have to be untruthful about? That was the situation. The f/t sup and i had words, i continued working and that was the end of it. We will see if i get a warning letter. But it won't really matter cause my next week you will be my f/t sup. I hope you like the finger lakes area.

From what I've seen of this guy (butbenefitsaregreat) and the 20 minutes he's worked at UPS, I can see him fitting in quite well. Either as the arrogant driver or the holier than though management.

[WhatPCM]

Awesome I cannot wait to work for him.

[Storm723]

Originally Posted by WhatPCM

Awesome I cannot wait to work for him.

LMAO!

[But Benefits Are Great!]

Originally Posted by sx2700

From what I've seen of this guy (butbenefitsaregreat) and the 20 minutes he's worked at UPS, I can see him fitting in quite well. Either as the arrogant driver or the holier than though management.

And what is it that you've seen that makes you feel that way? I have a thick skin, don't worry.

(Can't help myself with this one)

[sx2700]

Originally Posted by But Benefits Are Great!

And what is it that you've seen that makes you feel that way? I have a thick skin, don't worry.

(Can't help myself with this one)

You appear to be arrogant and have a holier than though attitude. I thought it was pretty self explanatory. Yeah, yeah, I know you claim your arrogance to be confidence. Yada yada.

[But Benefits Are Great!]

Originally Posted by sx2700

You appear to be arrogant and have a holier than though attitude. I thought it was pretty self explanatory.

Show me where? Just curious.

Yada Yada

[sx2700]

Originally Posted by But Benefits Are Great!

Show me where? Just curious.

Yada Yada

Would you like me to quote every one of your posts? It's just my opinion dude, I thought you had a thick skin.

[dannyboy]

You mentioned warning letter. But no one has asked the reason the warning letter is to be given out.

So excuse me for asking this little yet mildly important question. But they just dont hand out warning letters because they dont like you, its because you either violated company policy, or some other violation.

So forget about the other distractions, what are they writing you up on?

d

[WhatPCM]

Oh sorry didn't realize that i forgot that. F/t sup said i was getting a warning letter for shutting the belt off, for what he thought was a fake reason. He didnt feel that it was a unsafe condition.

[dannyboy]

My My My, having a hard time keeping your story straight? In the next thread, you are talking about hitting your sup in the face with a box, and here you claim that you are getting a warning letter for turning off the belt?

If you genuinely thought there was a safety issue, then there is no way you will get a warning letter.

But with all the other crap you posted, my bet is that he has read your postings, and with that in mind, figured out you want to play games.

Just remember, you play with fire, you will get burned. Those that do not accept council, will learn lessons the hard way.

d

[New Englander]

Originally Posted by tieguy

Don't let your desire to rebut everything I say cause you to give bad advice to someone. There is no first or second offense when you blatantly refuse to follow a sups instructions. Your on very thin ice as many here from different walks of ups have also told the man.

Do you read Tie? I said to work as instructed. This isn't the military, we can talk back if we choose and we can question management as well.

I'm not following you - I tend to read them all, I post when the topic interests me enough or when someone is posting partial truths.

Lol.....thanks for the negative feedback though! How did you know I was trying to get it as high has possible? Man - that really hurt!

[dannyboy]

we can talk back if we choose and we can question management as well.

I would be interested in what part of the policy book or contract you found the language above?

d

[New Englander]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

I would be interested in what part of the policy book or contract you found the language above?

d

Human nature, this isn't the military. Open door policy, no?

I can honestly say that I have spoken back about stuff I have not agreed with and I'm still an employee of UPS.

Just the other day I was assigned 2 NDA stops in my EDD, completely out of my area. In an area I don't even go through. 3 other drivers do drive through said area.
I was instructed by the dispatch supervisor to deliver them when I questioned it. I didn't buy it. Then spoke with my on road supervisor who completely agreed that the dispatch supervisor had made an error. They were given to the correct driver for delivery.

Now if I had been like most of you here, afraid to speak up I would have added 30 minutes to my AM and made my own air commits questionable, let alone getting a lunch in and making commercials by 1700.

Now if you follow Tie's reasoning and he was the dispatch supervisor I would have been fired on the spot. No?

There are times when you absolutely need to speak up. If it fails you work as directed and don't worry about the problems that incur. You can always say "I told you so."

We are told daily that UPS wants us doing what is right out there. Yet some seem to scared to voice what they think is right.

[atatbl]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

I would be interested in what part of the policy book or contract you found the language above?

d

I think he meant as a person of free will. Of course, that does mean a person of free will that will never have a career, but nonetheless.

If he actually did mean that as in "I have the right to question my boss and will have a leg to stand on when he/she fires me," well....... then I question how someone with that mental capacity remembers to breathe.

The only exception would be if it was unsafe. But again, that wouldn't be questioning that would be using common sense and saying "no, I'm not hurting myself for you," and would guarantee the boss seeing negative repercussions instead of the employee.

[New Englander]

Originally Posted by atatbl

I think he meant as a person of free will. Of course, that does mean a person of free will that will never have a career, but nonetheless.

If he actually did mean that as in "I have the right to question my boss and will have a leg to stand on when he/she fires me," well....... then I question how someone with that mental capacity remembers to breathe.

The only exception would be if it was unsafe. But again, that wouldn't be questioning that would be using common sense and saying "no, I'm not hurting myself for you," and would guarantee the boss seeing negative repercussions instead of the employee.

Are you that afraid?

[atatbl]

Originally Posted by New Englander

Human nature, this isn't the military. Open door policy, no?

I can honestly say that I have spoken back about stuff I have not agreed with and I'm still an employee of UPS.

Just the other day I was assigned 2 NDA stops in my EDD, completely out of my area. In an area I don't even go through. 3 other drivers do drive through said area.
I was instructed by the dispatch supervisor to deliver them when I questioned it. I didn't buy it. Then spoke with my on road supervisor who completely agreed that the dispatch supervisor had made an error. They were given to the correct driver for delivery.

Now if I had been like most of you here, afraid to speak up I would have added 30 minutes to my AM and made my own air commits questionable, let alone getting a lunch in and making commercials by 1700.

Now if you follow Tie's reasoning and he was the dispatch supervisor I would have been fired on the spot. No?

There are times when you absolutely need to speak up. If it fails you work as directed and don't worry about the problems that incur. You can always say "I told you so."

We are told daily that UPS wants us doing what is right out there. Yet some seem to scared to voice what they think is right.

LOL! You didn't "shove it to the man." All you did was MAYBE (and I doubt you have the cojones) tell a dispatch sup "no". Again, you didn't really do this, but we can pretend. Then you went further up the chain of command to someone that knew what the consequences of you delivering those letters would really be. That person then told the dispatch sup no with his/her actions.

Understand, what you said earlier and the situation you describe are two entirely different things. Mainly, a dispatch sup is a sup, but not your boss.

Here's a real world example that happened to me to show you what I mean. When I was a PT preload sup there was a day when two drivers were verbally going at it. It was pretty clear things might very well get physical.

As I walked up to the "scene" one of them said something that infuriated the other driver. I don't know what it was or what it meant, but it involved the name of a female. I don't know who he was talking about and I don't care. The driver that made that remark was facing me and the (now extremely pissed) driver was between us with his back to me. He threw his diad behind him. It hit my thigh. If these weren't two grown men about to attack each other, I would have laughed because it was like a movie scene. Unfortunately, this was real and in the work place. When the driver took one step towards the driver that had said something mean, he must have saw his face. The driver facing me had his jaw dropped and was just staring at me (I think he was thinking "oh F****, Mark just hit a sup with a diad, this is not how I wanted this to end)

The driver that threw it turned around to face me. I could see all of his built up machismo leave his body immediately. I just said "you're fired" and he said "I didn't know you were there." I said verbatim "I understand that and I whole-heartedly believe it, now lets go talk to Tom," (center mgr).

I guess it was lucky for the on roads that this was early enough that there were still driver's there that hadn't gone home. One of the extras must have taken Mark's route because neither of the on roads had to go driving that day.

When the CM, me, Mark, and steward (from another center, same building) went into the office I had no idea what to expect. This was work place violence. Everyone knew it. Well, the CM gave his spiel. It was pretty clear this was not the CM's or the steward's first time doing this. It was like pre-rehearsed clockwork on both their parts. No arguing, just the normal responses on both ends. The CM and I left the office so they could talk after the CM was done.

I can only paraphrase what he said because I don't remember everything that he said to me. Basically, he said that he had to fire him now because he hit an employee with a thrown item. He then explained that me telling him he was fired was not "official" because I was not in (and certainly not above) his chain of command. All that mattered, was that I got hit. I could have been a porter, OMS, or preloader and it wouldn't have changed anything. My being a sup did not play into this situation at all.

After asking him specifics for future reference, he basically told me that all firings have to come from mgnt level. Not FT or PT sups. The only way you can "fire" someone from those positions is to create a paper trail on an employee so long that if forces the mngr's hand. One of the best lessons I ever learned at UPS.

*The obvious exceptions are workplace violence, insubordination, theft, and sometimes harassment (depending on witnesses)* But even with these, at the end of the day, all that matters is that a mgr or higher got involved and actually signed the sheets.

To this day, I am still glad he threw that diad. I have to believe that two people getting physically aggressive on a boxline would lead to both of them being injured much more severely than a normal fight. That driver lost some money in the deal. But had he not hit me with that, at least one of those driver's would have been pretty hurt and one would have certainly lost his career for good. There would have been no coming back.

[New Englander]

Yeah.....I didn't say no. Freaken please.

I've received a warning letter for "failure to work as instructed" for not taking lunches. I told the DM and CM to there faces that I was not taking my lunch if they were going to let drivers take their lunches at the end of the day back in the building. To me thats the same as me running all day and then going home. It's just to appease their numbers on a report.

So....point is that I challenged both the DM and CM to fix a problem prior to me complying. I received a warning letter, that is now being contested via the union. As other drivers not taking lunches did not get one as well. I'm sure the letter will get removed from my file and management will be forced to correctly enforce the contract on this matter.

Now...I'm not an ass about it but I am going to stand up for what is right.

So tell me....why am I still here?

[atatbl]

Originally Posted by New Englander

Yeah.....I didn't say no. Freaken please.

I've received a warning letter for "failure to work as instructed" for not taking lunches. I told the DM and CM to there faces that I was not taking my lunch if they were going to let drivers take their lunches at the end of the day back in the building. To me thats the same as me running all day and then going home. It's just to appease their numbers on a report.

So....point is that I challenged both the DM and CM to fix a problem prior to me complying. I received a warning letter, that is now being contested via the union. As other drivers not taking lunches did not get one as well. I'm sure the letter will get removed from my file and management will be forced to correctly enforce the contract on this matter.

Now...I'm not an ass about it but I am going to stand up for what is right.

So tell me....why am I still here?

Short answer, because you are not an ass about it. Also, if they really wanted you gone that would be about the most poorly chosen way to go about it possible. Simply for this reason "As other drivers not taking lunches did not get one as well." If that is the case, they are not doing it to get rid of you. I am not sure what the details of the "problem" you say exists. But if this is their course of action, they do not currently have a solution.

[New Englander]

Originally Posted by atatbl

Short answer, because you are not an ass about it. Also, if they really wanted you gone that would be about the most poorly chosen way to go about possible. Simply for this reason "As other drivers not taking lunches did not get one as well." If that is the case, they are not doing it to get rid of you. I am not sure what the details of the "problem" you say exists. But if this is their course of action, they do not currently have a solution.

My point is that you can speak back and challenge a managers decision. This isn't the military. It in itself is not going to get you fired. I understand you as managers like to hold the "your going to get fired" trump card but let's be real.

I have not once said there is a right or wrong way of doing it. Obviously there is.

The problem all boiled down from Cali - if you enter no lunch in your diad. No lunch is deducted anymore. I don't agree that they can enforce the contractual lunch on us if they don't enforce the time it is written to be taken as well.

Obviously there is State Laws that govern lunch breaks that trump our contract but all things aside - most states do not require an hour as we get.