Not reposting full time bids?

[Micah]

So there are 2 - 22.3 people here that just got there 30 days in package car. Management says they are not going to rehang their 22.3 bids because they are moving their full time jobs to UPS Freight. Can they do this? Is UPS freight in the same contract as us? Will we be able to sign freight bids? This is rather concerning because if this works out for them, all 22.3 jobs will be eliminated someday. Is this happening anywhere else? I know there are quite a few pissed off part timers here that have 13 years in and were next in line for full time.

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Originally Posted by Micah

So there are 2 - 22.3 people here that just got there 30 days in package car. Management says they are not going to rehang their 22.3 bids because they are moving their full time jobs to UPS Freight. Can they do this? Is UPS freight in the same contract as us? Will we be able to sign freight bids? This is rather concerning because if this works out for them, all 22.3 jobs will be eliminated someday. Is this happening anywhere else? I know there are quite a few pissed off part timers here that have 13 years in and were next in line for full time.

In order to expand the work opportunities for members of the bargaining unit, the Employer will
consider removing additional loads from the railroad or the other substitute means of
transportation specified in this Article. When the Employer removes loads on other than a
temporary basis, it shall notify the Union of the number of new runs to be created as a result of
moving such loads on the ground. The Employer and Union shall agree on the most expeditious
method to obtain additional personnel and/or equipment, if necessary, for the new runs to be
operated by bargaining unit members. If the equipment or employees are not available, the
Employer may use subcontractors for a reasonable start-up period, not to exceed thirty (30) days.
The subcontracting can exceed thirty (30) days with the Union’s agreement if there are problems
obtaining additional personnel or equipment. Agreement under this paragraph will not be
unreasonably denied by the Union. All feeder positions created as a result of returning loads to the
ground shall be counted toward the Employer’s obligation to create full time jobs under Article
22.3 of this Agreement

[Micah]

I wish I understood contract jibberish. Does that mean what they are doing is okay?

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Originally Posted by Micah

I wish I understood contract jibberish. Does that mean what they are doing is okay?

Ask your steward or BA?

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

It's not OK in actuality. UPS would love to get away with it, so unless no one speaks up , they will. The amount of 22.3 jobs that have been created MUST BE MAINTAINED through 2013. If they're moving 2 22.3 jobs to UPS freight and not allowing UPS package to bid on them, it is IMO not right unless there are 2 new jobs being created to replace them. But then again that's my opinion and I'm not a union rep.

[Micah]

Thanks. The grievances have already been filed. We'll see how it ends up. If I don't want to drive that means I'd be stuck on my ty shift until the end. I don't want that to happen.

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Originally Posted by Micah

Thanks. The grievances have already been filed. We'll see how it ends up. If I don't want to drive that means I'd be stuck on my ty shift until the end. I don't want that to happen.

You have to do what you have to do. You might like driving....just make sure you pass the test and DOT, plus you can always bid the 22.3 if they pop up on the board. You'd be qualified already with the DOT and driving test.
Little rant here; I've been 22.3 two years and in alot of cases we really are "Under Paid Slaves" and that is 3 buildings worth of experiences. Feeders is really "where it's at", but full-time driving is runner up.
The big positive of 22.3 are the odd hours, watch or take your children to school in the AM PM or etc.
If you're single and want to have a life, forget 22.3 heh.

[New Englander]

Originally Posted by IDoLessWorkThanMost

You have to do what you have to do. You might like driving....just make sure you pass the test and DOT, plus you can always bid the 22.3 if they pop up on the board. You'd be qualified already with the DOT and driving test.
Little rant here; I've been 22.3 two years and in alot of cases we really are "Under Paid Slaves" and that is 3 buildings worth of experiences. Feeders is really "where it's at", but full-time driving is runner up.
The big positive of 22.3 are the odd hours, watch or take your children to school in the AM PM or etc.
If you're single and want to have a life, forget 22.3 heh.

With the amount of work a 22.3 does compared to the wages they get. I find it a bit hard to understand how you'd call it being an under paid slave.

You think you should get top ground rate?

[Micah]

For what I do as 22.3 I think I am overpaid. And I load trucks! It's the hours that are killing me. As you said, I don't have much of a weekday life as a single guy working 6 PM to 3 AM.

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Originally Posted by New Englander

With the amount of work a 22.3 does compared to the wages they get. I find it a bit hard to understand how you'd call it being an under paid slave.

You think you should get top ground rate?

you're making a very general statement there which doesn't always apply.

Yes, Some 22.3s are worked much harder than others. Deal makers can do alot less than others 22.3s.

inside./outside 22.3 can in some instances make as little as 13-15/hr for inside work btw. Under Paid Slaves.

It costs avg 500,000 for a house here in the Boston area, you know this New Englander. Do you think you're buying a 250,000 house with under 15 an hour as a full-time employee nevermind 500,000? Think about that clearly without bias and then respond.

I see some 22.3s working boxline sort/load 6am-4pm handling 3-4k packages a night, some boxline/unload handle 7-8k. 22.3 wasn't intended to hump packages for 9-10 hours, either.

That to me is overworked and underpaid when it's 80 degrees, humidity, no ventilation and there are 22.3s that are doing again much less work.

I do think some 22.3s (more) should make top ground rate. It should go case to case instead of lumped together. Of course there's a couple sparse full-time preloads, and hub-hub positions ( 10 here in CHEMA) but I see UPS bending over regular rate 22.3s here in the hub and they're doing hub/hub just like the top driver rate guys but not getting paid for it by being tricky with job descriptions. IMHO, underpaid.

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Originally Posted by Micah

For what I do as 22.3 I think I am overpaid. And I load trucks! It's the hours that are killing me. As you said, I don't have much of a weekday life as a single guy working 6 PM to 3 AM.

You're very lucky then. 22.77/hr barely pays the bills where I live.

[New Englander]

Fact of the matter is that you are making damn good money for the jobs you perform as a 22.3.

Your not a slave based upon pay. You can bid into delivery or find a higher paid job elsewhere.

[big_arrow_up]

Originally Posted by IDoLessWorkThanMost

You're very lucky then. 22.77/hr barely pays the bills where I live.

That is a good wage down here in Tennessee. The cost of living is lower and you can buy a pretty decent house for $130k. Sometimes less. A topped out driver making $28/hr is doing pretty well here. Especially if married to a working spouse. We had a couple of 22.3s go up for bid a year ago but none of the drivers wanted them because of the pay cut (down to $21/hr). The bids were removed and never put back up anyway so it doesn't matter now. I don't see how UPS can get away with moving our work to UPS Freight. Just doesn't seem right.

[Bubblehead]

I'm betting you will prevail in your grievance. Can't imagine how any work can be justified as "movable" to UPS Freight. Don't see that being contractually viable in any instance. How can that work cease to exist in your location?

[Baba gounj]

Originally Posted by Micah

So there are 2 - 22.3 people here that just got there 30 days in package car. Management says they are not going to rehang their 22.3 bids because they are moving their full time jobs to UPS Freight. Can they do this? Is UPS freight in the same contract as us? Will we be able to sign freight bids? This is rather concerning because if this works out for them, all 22.3 jobs will be eliminated someday. Is this happening anywhere else? I know there are quite a few pissed off part timers here that have 13 years in and were next in line for full time.

NO they can' t do that.
UPS and UPS Freight do not have the same contract.
What IDLWTM was saying was a clause about feeder work.

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Originally Posted by big_arrow_up

That is a good wage down here in Tennessee. The cost of living is lower and you can buy a pretty decent house for $130k. Sometimes less. A topped out driver making $28/hr is doing pretty well here. Especially if married to a working spouse. We had a couple of 22.3s go up for bid a year ago but none of the drivers wanted them because of the pay cut (down to $21/hr). The bids were removed and never put back up anyway so it doesn't matter now. I don't see how UPS can get away with moving our work to UPS Freight. Just doesn't seem right.

Yeah I agree about moving those jobs to Freight. It isn't right, period.

Plus - what happened to those 22.3 jobs at your center? Those should have been monitored by your local and not disappeared (not that you really care, anyways, just saying)

you can't buy a mobile home here for 130k. 200k in SE Texas buys you close to a McMansion.

[New Englander]

Originally Posted by IDoLessWorkThanMost

you're making a very general statement there which doesn't always apply.

I see some 22.3s working boxline sort/load 6am-4pm handling 3-4k packages a night, some boxline/unload handle 7-8k. 22.3 wasn't intended to hump packages for 9-10 hours, either.

That to me is overworked and underpaid when it's 80 degrees, humidity, no ventilation and there are 22.3s that are doing again much less work.

A 22.3 wasn't intended to hump packages for 9 to 10 hours? What do you think a 22.3 is? It was the combination of two part time jobs.

Trust me - if you guys ever got top ground rate. All of you guys would be in package delivering as all the senior drivers would bump you where the 22.3's are in the full rebid.

Why would that happen? At that pay it's a much more desirable job to many then package.

[Micah]

Around here 22.3 jobs are 1 shift package handling, 1 shift not package handling.

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Originally Posted by New Englander

A 22.3 wasn't intended to hump packages for 9 to 10 hours? What do you think a 22.3 is? It was the combination of two part time jobs.

Trust me - if you guys ever got top ground rate. All of you guys would be in package delivering as all the senior drivers would bump you where the 22.3's are in the full rebid.

Why would that happen? At that pay it's a much more desirable job to many then package.

If you think 22.3 is intended to unload for 8+ hours, you do not know what you're talking about. Plain and simple. Look closely at bids next time they come around. I don't know what local you're in, but Local 25 there is (ideally ) no such thing as 8+ hours of box humping.

That does not mean that UPS management has pure intentions and will not try to coerce their 22.3 employees into doing that. At CHEMA, believe me, they try to bully 22.3s

If you hump packages for 8 + hours, it's called top driver rate and NOT a 22.3. I've already explained this, it is clad, and if you cannot understand I'm not explaining it again

There are inside/inside jobs that pay top driver rate inside/inside. They are WAD all 8+ hours and are full-time hub sluts, counter clerical, F/T preload, etc. It is what it is, I don't know where you're getting your information from.

Sorry for the OT, let's get back to the bid being moved....any word yet Micah?

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Originally Posted by Micah

Around here 22.3 jobs are 1 shift package handling, 1 shift not package handling.

Thank you.

[barrycold]

Originally Posted by New Englander

A 22.3 wasn't intended to hump packages for 9 to 10 hours? What do you think a 22.3 is? It was the combination of two part time jobs.

Trust me - if you guys ever got top ground rate. All of you guys would be in package delivering as all the senior drivers would bump you where the 22.3's are in the full rebid.

Why would that happen? At that pay it's a much more desirable job to many then package.

a 22.3 job is 2 shifts. One shift has to be a package handling job then the other one is a preferred job.

[Micah]

I wouldn't call my working at the airport very "preferred" but whatever.