You Think They Would Learn...I need advice!

[yougottabekiddingme]

You would think after being sued and losing in California and putting the PTRS in place for P/T sups they would actually pay us the time we work.....WELL THINK AGAIN!

Being a P/T sup now for almost 7 years in a large New Jersey preload operation I have hit the BROWN wall. No driving yet, no full time management, no light at the end of the tunnel. I am the lead sup. in my area. I am the one covering my F/T supervisors vacation. I am running the show as they say. I am the one who comes in early and leaves late. I handle all the paper work, run the hours, etc..... I am getting paid based on 27.5 hours a week. On weeks my boss is out I am putting in between 45-50. And GUESS WHAT........

NO OVERTIME!!!!!!!!

I am given days off in place of money! Well I am fed up my hard work has got me nowhere! I have spoken to an attorney who said I can sue for what they owe me nothing more......

ANY ADVICE, HELP, SUPPORT!!!!!!!


PLEASE GUIDE ME AROUND THE BROWN WALL IN MY WAY!

[over9five]

"I am the one covering my F/T supervisors vacation. I am running the show as they say. I am the one who comes in early and leaves late. I handle all the paper work, run the hours, etc"

This, and especially THIS:

"I am getting paid based on 27.5 hours a week."

...is why you will never get FT. Why in the world would they pay you FT when you do it all for PT wages???

Dude, UPS does not promote because you do an excellent job. In fact, the opposite is generally true. Stop doing such a great job. They do not NEED more FTs if you're already doing the work.

Good luck!

[disneyworld]

Originally Posted by yougottabekiddingme

You would think after being sued and losing in California and putting the PTRS in place for P/T sups they would actually pay us the time we work.....WELL THINK AGAIN!

Being a P/T sup now for almost 7 years in a large New Jersey preload operation I have hit the BROWN wall. No driving yet, no full time management, no light at the end of the tunnel. I am the lead sup. in my area. I am the one covering my F/T supervisors vacation. I am running the show as they say. I am the one who comes in early and leaves late. I handle all the paper work, run the hours, etc..... I am getting paid based on 27.5 hours a week. On weeks my boss is out I am putting in between 45-50. And GUESS WHAT........

NO OVERTIME!!!!!!!!

I am given days off in place of money! Well I am fed up my hard work has got me nowhere! I have spoken to an attorney who said I can sue for what they owe me nothing more......

ANY ADVICE, HELP, SUPPORT!!!!!!!


PLEASE GUIDE ME AROUND THE BROWN WALL IN MY WAY!

Are you getting paid for the days off? Sue them? on what grounds? Is there some agreement they are breaking?STOP DOING THEM FAVORS,THEY APPRECIATE NOTHING.NO MATTER HOW OFTEN THEY MIGHT SAY IT.

[yougottabekiddingme]

On What Grounds...?

They cant deny you your overtime.....imagine they told drivers, loaders, or unloaders...."Hey, work but we wont pay you overtime we will give you a day off".....

Why did they put PTRS in place....on my PRELOAD we cant have overtime but the HUB P/T sups can?

Days off dont pay my bills.....

[bisongolfer]

DISCLAIMER: The statement expressed below is strictly my own personal opinion. I am no legal expert by any means and I am willing to admit that I am most likely wrong, but what the hell...

As a fellow part-time management employee myself, I can relate to your frustrations. However, I do have a question for you:
In PTRS, are you keeping an accurate log of your time or are you only submitting 5.5 hours a day?

If you answer YES, that you are keeping an accurate log of your time, than obviously it would mean that the approver of your time card is changing your hours, which is grounds for termination for your approver; guilty of falsifying records. You would also be justified in requesting the expedited compensation of the overtime not payed. If managment refused to pay you after you bring up the inaccuracy of your timecard, you have the basis for a lawsuit.

When you go over 5.5 hours per day, you are required to write a statement explaining why you worked over 5.5 hours for that particular day, before you can clock out. If you are covering for somebody, you are usually expected to work over 5.5 hours.

If you answer NO, than I must ask why?! I know it is often easy to feel pressured to do whatever necessary to get the job done; thus working a little over 5.5 hours. Add on to that the fact that you want to move up within the company, which makes you more willing to sacrifice here and there, hoping that it will ultimately lead to a promotion or at the very least, a good pay raise. But there are limits!

If you are not turning in the correct number of hours in PTRS, than I would think UPS could easily get out of this lawsuit. You are not owed any money for overtime if you do not record it down correctly in your own timecard. You can also be terminated for falsifying records.
Your lawyer would probably try to argue that you were pressured to work overtime and to falsify your own timecard. If that happened, UPS would most likely argue that you are still responsible for your own timecard, and that if you were not being paid correctly, that you should have attempted to go up the management chain, and if that still didn't work, to contact the hotline or corporate to rectify the issue. In other words, they would simply say that they can’t solve a problem that they are unaware of. The fact that you were given time off to balance out the work load would also come into play, with a lot depending on how the days off were recorded.

As far as the compensation of time off instead of money, how exactly is that done? Do you work 3 days, and then are off the rest of the week so you are still under 27.5 hrs per week? Or do you work 40 hrs a week, and then get the next week off? How are you coded in PTRS when you given these "days off"?

[rod]

sounds like you management types need a better Union. Oh I forgot- your not Union.

[yougottabekiddingme]

*When I question over-time, I am told to "DO THE RIGHT THING!"

*If I do put that I work OVERTIME with the proper reasoning, its changed.

*They give me 1 or 2 days off for covering the full-time sup.

Its just confusing cause I dont wanna make a fuss because I would like to make a career out of UPS, and I they know that so they have me by my manhood!

Also my other gripe is that there are guys recently promoted making more then me. I have been a sup 6 1/2 years as a sup. Because they changed the starting rate........WOW only at UPS can I kid whose been a sup for 3 months make more then someone who is 6 1/2 years in.

[browniehound]

What a lovely company we all work for. The fact of the matter is, what UPS is doing to you is good business. Until you get some leverage or something to negotiate with, I believe your stuck my friend. The above thread makes me feel a little better when the union takes its 65 bucks every month.

[30andout]

Originally Posted by browniehound

What a lovely company we all work for. The fact of the matter is, what UPS is doing to you is good business. Until you get some leverage or something to negotiate with, I believe your stuck my friend. The above thread makes me feel a little better when the union takes its 65 bucks every month.

$35 maybe, $65s a bit steep.

The biggest problem you face and all P/T management employees face is the fact that a F/T supervisor or manager must approve your timecard. I have seen it happen where, accidently of course, they mean to hit "enter" to approve the time card but their fingers slip and they happen to enter 5.0 in the hours over the say 8.5 you worked. I would not suggest of course it was done intentionally, it just that 'ole human error keeping all those number keys so close to the enter key on the computer. Accidents happen you know, its just that some people dont get charged with them!

[toonertoo]

You are screwed, they have nailed you to the part timer wall, move on............unless you hit a stroke of luck you'll stay where you are doing full time work for part time pay, and in the meantime you arent getting any younger.
I got a stroke of luck, most dont. Good luck my friend.

[psstdrvr]

Read the writing on the wall my friend. If you think its going to get better you are mistaken, take a good look at anyone who has been working at UPS longer than you. Learn from their mistakes. I've been here 25 yrs and thankfully never went into management. More managers quit or get fired than any driver I've ever known.

[toonertoo]

Originally Posted by psstdrvr

Read the writing on the wall my friend. If you think its going to get better you are mistaken, take a good look at anyone who has been working at UPS longer than you. Learn from their mistakes. I've been here 25 yrs and thankfully never went into management. More managers quit or get fired than any driver I've ever known.

Well said, Amen.......
Doesnt matter how good you are,
You unfortunately got lead into a dead end job,
You are wasting your talent and your time,
They will keep dangling the carrot in front of you, and time moves on and you get old..
And unless that manger, and there are some, sees your value, and moves you on at the risk of his operation suffering, you will be there 4 ever.
Not pretty, just the facts. Anyone who wants can argue and say it isnt that way, any honest person with time at UPS knows it is.
Part time mgmt. personnel are disposable employees. If it has changed I havent seen it. My pt sups are getting grey, ive been in this center 14 yrs.

[brownalltheway]

The way some of you act today and only think of yourself is just crazy. I started in the preload operation in a BIG New Jersey Hub as well.

I worked my way up the corporate ladder and didn't think twice about putting the extra effort to advance.

I spent 4.5 years as a PT Sup and eventually was promoted to FT. To have this attitude and to say that you are going to sue to get what you're due, is crazy.

Put forth the effort and bring in the business and keep the packages flowing so that we get more packages DELIVERED on time and un-damaged then we might get more customers.

You need to understand that a FT position cannot become available if the volume is not there and from what I here, the service levels that UPS once owned over the competition is becoming a slimmer margin.

If you're unhappy, find another job

[toonertoo]

Brownall the way. I see you have completed your labotomy session since the typical answer from FT mgmt is "if you are not happy find another job".

Do you know how how many good, I mean well educated, people friendly, stable, dependable people UPS has lost with that attitude? Or maybe you just dont care, another one who cant "get the big picture" .
Seeing as how you are a big "jersey" mgmt person, with
one whole post to your credit................it hardly makes you an expert on the way it is at UPS, for ptimers. Or the past battles we have seen ptimers go through.
You may be a nice guy/gal, but your post is rather arrogant. You got lucky if in 5 yrs you want to call it that reamains to be seen.
I spent 6 yrs in pt mgmt, and I finally got my dream of the FT position and when my six months driving was up, I said NOPE. I am where I am because at least among hourly there is some loyalty. You guys have no protection and you get some mgr in there that doesnt like you, You are gone dude. I at least have the back of my fellow worker even if I didnt have a union. You are alone. You may find out the real meaning of caring when you find you have no one that does in your corner. Ive seen mgrs QUIT when they were taking a dying parent to the hospital, and were told to pull over for a conference call. I was told I couldnt have a day off when my father was dying, so I clocked off and he died that eve, and I never got to see him. I got there 5 minutes too late at 10:00pm. I was on the preload when I had my son in the ER because of suspected appendicitis, and they aka YOU made me stay and deliver NDA during a snowstorm and the hospital called 3xs, (before diad and cell phones) and I got back to the center and when I got to the hospital I got ripped for not getting there when called) and my son could have died, and not one mgmt person would admit to taking a call. And there were only 3 of them, not like a big jersy center. That is when I decided, management was not for me, as I tend to care about people. So I wish you luck, but until you have been around to see how things really work, dont tell someone who has put in the same blood and sweat as you, and not getting the same results to just quit, dont give such arrogant advice. Its not complimentary to your position. How many years total did you say you have, or did you just get the big bone?

Those in ties say goodbye, those in brown stick around.

[disneyworld]

Originally Posted by brownalltheway

The way some of you act today and only think of yourself is just crazy. I started in the preload operation in a BIG New Jersey Hub as well.

I worked my way up the corporate ladder and didn't think twice about putting the extra effort to advance.

I spent 4.5 years as a PT Sup and eventually was promoted to FT. To have this attitude and to say that you are going to sue to get what you're due, is crazy.

Put forth the effort and bring in the business and keep the packages flowing so that we get more packages DELIVERED on time and un-damaged then we might get more customers.

You need to understand that a FT position cannot become available if the volume is not there and from what I here, the service levels that UPS once owned over the competition is becoming a slimmer margin.

If you're unhappy, find another job

That's the problem with UPS,too many inexperienced people get moved up the ladder too quickly. 30 days on the road doesn't qualify you for management,unless it's UPS. I had a helper for peak a few years ago,he was a p/t sup within a year.

[No Talent Clown]

Until new regime comes in you are seen as a lifer a p/t sup. lifer. You are either making someone look good, your skill level isn't diversified enough and/or you pissed the wrong staff person off. If you have the time and energy to wait out the current regime more power to you. Otherwise, its time to pick up the paper.

[jetset]

I read with intrest the comments on management within the US. The comments of Bison perhaps best some up the roll and the feelings we have for management in the UK (and at the moment their are a few good ones out there) but more and more are refusing to take the piece of silver. They won't relocate or they won't accept the salery. So the quality of management promoted lowers, no longer do they have time to serve 12 months on road so their perception of a drivers day comes from a 1970s US video. But hell the powers that be don't need good managers they need puppets they can control.

[xracer]

Originally Posted by 30andout

$35 maybe, $65s a bit steep.

Just checked my paycheck stub and I am paying $79 monthly, so if you are only paying $35 a month in dues consider yourself lucky and know that you are getting a bargain unless of course you are in the Central States region and then you are paying way too much for what you are receiving.

[big_arrow_up]

Our p/t sups get overtime here. I don't know why it would be different there.

[toonertoo]

I dont know why it would be either, but numbers and $$ still come to mind, unless the guy is lying, which I dont think he is.

[Braveheart]

Originally Posted by toonertoo

Brownall the way. I see you have completed your labotomy session since the typical answer from FT mgmt is "if you are not happy find another job".

Do you know how how many good, I mean well educated, people friendly, stable, dependable people UPS has lost with that attitude? Or maybe you just dont care, another one who cant "get the big picture" .
Seeing as how you are a big "jersey" mgmt person, with
one whole post to your credit................it hardly makes you an expert on the way it is at UPS, for ptimers. Or the past battles we have seen ptimers go through.
You may be a nice guy/gal, but your post is rather arrogant. You got lucky if in 5 yrs you want to call it that reamains to be seen.
I spent 6 yrs in pt mgmt, and I finally got my dream of the FT position and when my six months driving was up, I said NOPE. I am where I am because at least among hourly there is some loyalty. You guys have no protection and you get some mgr in there that doesnt like you, You are gone dude. I at least have the back of my fellow worker even if I didnt have a union. You are alone. You may find out the real meaning of caring when you find you have no one that does in your corner. Ive seen mgrs QUIT when they were taking a dying parent to the hospital, and were told to pull over for a conference call. I was told I couldnt have a day off when my father was dying, so I clocked off and he died that eve, and I never got to see him. I got there 5 minutes too late at 10:00pm. I was on the preload when I had my son in the ER because of suspected appendicitis, and they aka YOU made me stay and deliver NDA during a snowstorm and the hospital called 3xs, (before diad and cell phones) and I got back to the center and when I got to the hospital I got ripped for not getting there when called) and my son could have died, and not one mgmt person would admit to taking a call. And there were only 3 of them, not like a big jersy center. That is when I decided, management was not for me, as I tend to care about people. So I wish you luck, but until you have been around to see how things really work, dont tell someone who has put in the same blood and sweat as you, and not getting the same results to just quit, dont give such arrogant advice. Its not complimentary to your position. How many years total did you say you have, or did you just get the big bone?

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TELLING HIM HOW IT IS!! Obviously, BROWN ALL THE WAY is a sold out manager. The PTS has a right to get paid for the hours he worked. Maybe BROWN ALL THE WAY is a five o'clock and a cloud of dust who dumps his work on the the PTS in his center. I have also witnessed PTS in my building go FT driving and then decline full time management just like you did. BROWN ALL THE WAY IS TRULY BROWN ALL THE WAY!!

[NI3X]

Well.........It was your career chioce. The so called "CENTER OF THE FUTURE" eliminates management people anyway. Get out now while you can. Go find work for a company that will respect you and the work that you do.