Virtual time study.

[coldworld]

Originally Posted by outamyway

It's gonna be kind of hard to see inside all the casinos here. Any time study will be a joke on the strip. It can take 10 minutes to deliver one package at one receiving dock, while another day it may take 3 minutes to deliver a bunch of packages. At some casinos you have to walk the package inside to get to the small shops near the front. Ever been around the Las Vegas strip at 3pm on a weekday afternoon? I don't recommend it. You'll get nowhere fast. Most of our strip drivers are 1 to 2 hours over allowed everyday.

For NDA we have approved "request late" (A) delivery stops at almost every casino on the strip. It's so unpredictable that it had to be done. Now most of the late air is due to preload fk ups (Most of these problems they tried to solve by hiring more part time sups, instead of preloaders. Guess what? We still have the same problems).

outa, do you know how many centers nevada actually has, seems like outside reno/sparks and las vegas areas theres not nuch going on??

[outamyway]

Originally Posted by coldworld

ever had a sup riding with you and try to "push" a customer, especially at business docks to get the packages counted and signed for fast?

No, but that's exactly why I don't push them. Cause' they are free to check the packages and sign when ever they want. If you push them they might make you wait and wait and wait some more everyday.

Most of the time they are helping someone else. I really have no right to butt in. When they're ready, I'll be ready.

[outamyway]

Originally Posted by coldworld

outa, do you know how many centers Nevada actually has, seems like outside reno/sparks and las Vegas areas theres not nuch going on??

There's two buildings in Las Vegas. Not sure about the whole state. You're right though, there's a lot of open land here.

I believe both our buildings deliver to all of Clark county. And at least one town in Arizona, close to the border.

Just to give you an idea, our two centers will deliver to all these areas:

I'm sure there are a few more places in the surrounding areas.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by 705red

Tie this software that management is using in their jobs will now directly effect the work force were it is changeable. How reliable is this software?

Is it like mapquest? Because when we had a 710 barn close and those employees moved into palatine their drive time was calculated by map quest and everyone of them were running hours over on a daily basis.

How precise is it? Is it similiar to what the government uses? because we know they have never bombed the wrong target using this sophisticated gps tracking.

Is this going to turn into another one of your rants about how inexperienced those union guys at 705 are?

You also say that the union has no say in whats an avoidable or unavoidable accident. I say absolutely the union does because if it can lead to discipline accidents are grievable.

Red, its a management tool for management to do their job. You're reaching here.

[IWorkAsDirected]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

I had a chance to see this system and use it a little. If you are looking for an absolutely 100% accurate system, it doesn't exist. The inaccuracies of hills were already mentioned here.

On the other hand, today a time study observer is not 100% accurate either.

When a time study is done, the observer spends 9 or so hours on car, and another few hours calculating the information from the study. With that work, they have analyzed about 150 stops and their associated walk distances.

With this system, they can analyze many hundreds of stops in a few hours.

In the overwhelming majority of cases, the satellite images are extremely accurate. Remember, it is only used to calculate walk distances, not travel path or travel time.

Also, the information is saved and can be reproduced.

I'm not sure why the push back on a system that increases accuracy, reduces management time, and is auditable...

I agree with Tie. If you think this system needs to be approved by the union, you will have to accept the validity of time study.

I would have thought your stance would have been, "let management have all the toys they want, we don't recognize the output of them anyway".

P-Man

BECAUSE........it is absolutely NOT more accurate and is ABSOLUTLY less accurate, Someome taking every step with you and recording sit time in traffic and speed limits etc as well as accurately reflecting all walk distances is by far more accurate than sitting at a computer trying to figure it out from a satellite image.

Either you think we are incredibly stupid or you are.

[IWorkAsDirected]

Originally Posted by coldworld

There should be an allowance for using a handtruck, drivers get dinged for having to pull it out, hoading it, then rolling it inside the building, in the elevator or around the back where the ramp is. Someone told me one tine that handtruck use was "built" into the plan day...ummmm I believe thats bs. How does a program know if you have 2 letters for a front desk, or (2) 69 lb boxes going on the handtruck and through the BACK of the building? If your using a handtruck 10 times a day, thats a good amount of time being lost. I guess it doesnt matter anyway, the allowance only benefit the bulk cars or routes where drivers are pulling pups or picking up hundreds of pieces. Hey how about an allowance for BULKED OUT CAR. You only have like 8 seconds to grab a box off the shelf and be headed down the stairs, how are you suppose to do that when you cant even get the bulkhead door open enough to squeeze half your body back there. If you really think about it its ridiculous that they spend so much time on this kind of thing, which most people dont care about anyway. They do the best they can and thats that. Guess thats not good enough!

AND...that's the way it is folks!! I'm so sick and tired of being harrassed about over allowed I can't wait to finish out my 211 days, and I'll pretne this brown crap no longer exists!! Yes I have a negative attitude and UPS earned it.

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by IWorkAsDirected

BECAUSE........it is absolutely NOT more accurate and is ABSOLUTLY less accurate, Someome taking every step with you and recording sit time in traffic and speed limits etc as well as accurately reflecting all walk distances is by far more accurate than sitting at a computer trying to figure it out from a satellite image.

Either you think we are incredibly stupid or you are.

I guess there are other options.

Maybe you are misinformed. Maybe you are not listening.

I'm not sure how many time studies you have taken. I'm not sure how many time study classes you have taught. I've done many of both.

The observer does NOT take every step with you. They estimate walk classes.

I've said multiple times that this program does NOT study traffic.

Have you seen this program?? I've seen the analysis on the accuracy of this program as compared to observers. Have you??

I know that I'm not stupid... I don't think you are...

We are running out of choices here. ...

What do you think the other options are?

P-Man

[brownmonster]

Leave my time study alone. It was done in 1992 and I'm fine with it.

[tourists24]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

The observer does NOT take every step with you. They estimate walk classes.

I've said multiple times that this program does NOT study traffic.

Brings up a couple of questions Pretzel,,, what does estimating walk classes mean and how does it distinguish between a 5'0 tall female and a 6'4" 25 year old man? Also, if the program does not study traffic, how can it possibly be accurate?

[BigBrownSanta]

I'm just guessing, but...

Walk classes are the distances you have to walk to reach the delivery point. The distances are broken down into (as far as I can tell) 5 distances, 5-25', 26-50', 51-100', 101-200', and over 200'.

There are also types of walks, an outside walk and an inside walk. I don't know what the difference is, but an inside walk gives you more time allowance than an outside walk.

You get a certain amount of time allowance to walk each of the various distances. If you use a two wheeler, you get a little more time allowance. The basic allowance is roughly 1 second for each 5', but the interesting thing is that the allowance gets less the farther you have to walk.

I really don't see how changing walk classes will make a route show a more accurate plan. The difference is only measured in seconds, and as I said before, the farther you walk, the less time allowance you get.

[rod]

I would think that in a virtual time study at least they aren't stepping on your heels to get you to walk faster. I always used to just stop dead in my tracks and tell them if they are in that much of a hurry to go around me.

[JustTired]

Hey........
What do Fox News and UPS time-studies have in common?

They both claim to be "fair and balanced"....lol........

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by tourists24

Brings up a couple of questions Pretzel,,, what does estimating walk classes mean and how does it distinguish between a 5'0 tall female and a 6'4" 25 year old man? Also, if the program does not study traffic, how can it possibly be accurate?

I'll try and answer, but Big Brown Santa in a post following yours answered the walk classes well....

Time study observers are trained to estimate walk distances. They are broken into classes of walks and there are five of them. Class 1 is the shortest walk (6 to 25 feet) and class 5 is the longest (201 feet and over).

The walk time is not broken out between make / female / height / etc. Its an average time to walk. I once did the math to figure out how fast the measurement expected a walk pace to be, and as I recall it was 2.78 miles per hour. (The average person walks 3 miles per hour, so I thought that was pretty fair).

Classifying walks are a carryover from manual worksheets from many years ago. Back there was no way to estimate actual distance, so whether you walked 51 feet or 100 feet, you got the same allowance (Class 3 walk).

The new time study program measures walk distances using the satellite images, and it does it by using the measured distance instead of a walk class. So, if you walked 200 feet, you'd get a different measure in the time study than if you walked 101 feet. (Today, there is the same calculation for both)

As far as travel goes, the virtual study we have discussed does NOT measure travel. It is measured the same way as before. There is a travel chart, and the chart says that give you planned time for traveling to and from an area as well as travel time within an area. The travel time within an area is based on the number of stops you have.

During a time study, the observer can add time based on travel delays.

Of all the time study measures, travel is the least accurate.

Again, the virtual study is only changing a portion of the time study procedure. From what I hear, there will be other changes over time. Travel being one of those changes.

P-Man

[over9five]

Originally Posted by JustTired

Hey........
What do Fox News and UPS time-studies have in common?

They both claim to be "fair and balanced"....lol........

Let's be fair and add CNN, ABC and Katie Couric to that.

[IWorkAsDirected]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

I guess there are other options.

Maybe you are misinformed. Maybe you are not listening.

I'm not sure how many time studies you have taken. I'm not sure how many time study classes you have taught. I've done many of both.

The observer does NOT take every step with you. They estimate walk classes.

I've said multiple times that this program does NOT study traffic.

Have you seen this program?? I've seen the analysis on the accuracy of this program as compared to observers. Have you??

I know that I'm not stupid... I don't think you are...

We are running out of choices here. ...

What do you think the other options are?

P-Man

I have participated in 2 time studies during my 21+ years with ups and yes, they took every step with me, they recorded my mileage at each change in speed limit and they marked down all time spent at stop lights etc. So maybe you are not aware of how they were done 15-18 years ago when they did them.

They were not simply observers they actually went with you every step of the way and I believe they were very accurate, which cannot possibly be done on a computer looking at a satellite image. I am so glad I'm almost to retirement as this will only add to the incredibly impossible standards that drivers are required to meet these days.

All of the technological additions have been good for the customer and for the company, but because someone somewhere believes these things save the drivers time it has made it impossible to work to expectations.

The time I spend sorting, sending messages, replying to messages, meeting because of misloads, and delivering misloads takes much, much more time than what little may have been saved by scanning rather than recording manually. In fact my diad went down yesterday and they brought me out another one without edd, I did 10 more stops per hour without edd.

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by IWorkAsDirected

I have participated in 2 time studies during my 21+ years with ups and yes, they took every step with me, they recorded my mileage at each change in speed limit and they marked down all time spent at stop lights etc. So maybe you are not aware of how they were done 15-18 years ago when they did them.

They were not simply observers they actually went with you every step of the way and I believe they were very accurate, which cannot possibly be done on a computer looking at a satellite image. I am so glad I'm almost to retirement as this will only add to the incredibly impossible standards that drivers are required to meet these days.

All of the technological additions have been good for the customer and for the company, but because someone somewhere believes these things save the drivers time it has made it impossible to work to expectations.

The time I spend sorting, sending messages, replying to messages, meeting because of misloads, and delivering misloads takes much, much more time than what little may have been saved by scanning rather than recording manually. In fact my diad went down yesterday and they brought me out another one without edd, I did 10 more stops per hour without edd.

IWork:

I think that its great that the observers walked every step with you. Some do that, but its not required. They are trying to determine walk distance and then determine one of the five classes to use.

Remember, whether you walk 101 feet or 200 feet you get the same measurement. With the new system, they measure it more precisely.

From what I've seen, some areas gain time, some lose. In all cases, the measurement is done more quickly, and can be easily reproduced and audited.

I guess I'm surprised that without EDD, you did more stops per hour?? If that's the case, can't you just not get EDD in the morning?

P-Man

[over9five]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

I guess I'm surprised that without EDD, you did more stops per hour?? If that's the case, can't you just not get EDD in the morning?

P-Man

Probably not. There is some report, I believe it's "percentage of drivers on EDD".

I used to meet an air driver on road, and give him his air to deliver. (He started at the airport, did EAMs, and then I'd give him his 10:30s).
One day the sup told me, "He's the only one not on EDD. You'll have to download his EDD, and transfer it to his DIAD on-road". I thought that was a silly time consuming thing to do for 5 stops, and told the sup that. He told me the air driver was coming up on some report, so we fixed it by transferring EDD on-road.

[feeder53]

I do not put too much thought into time study as there are a thousand items that can scew the numbers either way. If they want to study it....have at it. I do my best at all times.

[IWorkAsDirected]

Originally Posted by feeder53

I do not put too much thought into time study as there are a thousand items that can scew the numbers either way. If they want to study it....have at it. I do my best at all times.

We all do, however with pas we already lose time, then with a fake time study we'll lose more and the harassment just gets worse. I'm so glad I'm almost gone, I feel for those of you that are going to have to put up with this completely impossible mess thanks to IE