Virtual time study.

[705red]

I have seached to see if we already had a thread going and could not find any.

Two weeks ago we were informed of this new time study that would use gps/ world track satelites to measure walks from the middle of the street to the homes/business stops. My center was the first and since two others have been studied and the answers keep changing from center to center.

I have already filed a greivance on this for failure to negotiate with the teamsters these technological changes, but my question is has any one else gone through this?

Ifso can you explain it a little and how did it change the time study in place?

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by 705red

I have seached to see if we already had a thread going and could not find any.

Two weeks ago we were informed of this new time study that would use gps/ world track satelites to measure walks from the middle of the street to the homes/business stops. My center was the first and since two others have been studied and the answers keep changing from center to center.

I have already filed a greivance on this for failure to negotiate with the teamsters these technological changes, but my question is has any one else gone through this?

Ifso can you explain it a little and how did it change the time study in place?

This "virtual" study uses satellite and GPS information to more accurately determine walk distances. As far as I know, it only affects the recorded walks and works best in residential areas.

When an IE does a time study on car, the walk distance is estimated. They break the distances into walk classes. This can have inaccuracies due to the observer, and because there are only a few walk classes used.

From what I've seen this is a good thing. It allows more areas to have their walk allowances studies quickly, and can be easily audited.

It increases accuracy and allows the cost of the study to be reduced. Seems good to me.

I'd be curious to know the result of the grievance.

P-Man

[stevetheupsguy]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

This "virtual" study uses satellite and GPS information to more accurately determine walk distances. As far as I know, it only affects the recorded walks and works best in residential areas.

When an IE does a time study on car, the walk distance is estimated. They break the distances into walk classes. This can have inaccuracies due to the observer, and because there are only a few walk classes used.

From what I've seen this is a good thing. It allows more areas to have their walk allowances studies quickly, and can be easily audited.

It increases accuracy and allows the cost of the study to be reduced. Seems good to me.

I'd be curious to know the result of the grievance.

P-Man

Your point taken, I think they need to wait till the GPS works better. I'm still pulling up to stops and getting the diad sound that tells me I'm not at the right stop, when I definetly am.

[chev]

Damn! Can you say Micro-Manage? Are they measuring in centimeters? This crap burns me up.

[705red]

Im am not saying that i am agaisnt it by any means. I dont have enough info on it to come to that conclusion, that is why i filed on it. The contract is clear that it needs to be negotiated with the union, this way all the questions can be answered and the drivers can be informed.

[AKCoverMan]

Steve.. we were told that you can have the dispatch supe "reset" that address if the GPS fix is off. Can't say as I have turned one in yet...

[stevetheupsguy]

Originally Posted by AKCoverMan

Steve.. we were told that you can have the dispatch supe "reset" that address if the GPS fix is off. Can't say as I have turned one in yet...

Cool, I'll get with him the next time that happens, thanks AKC.

[trplnkl]

Red, it seems to me that by filing a greivance on this you are giving a level of credibility to time studies. Are time studies mentioned in the contract anywhere?

[Hoaxster]

Originally Posted by 705red

Im am not saying that i am agaisnt it by any means. I dont have enough info on it to come to that conclusion, that is why i filed on it. The contract is clear that it needs to be negotiated with the union, this way all the questions can be answered and the drivers can be informed.

MHO-
I can understand your reaction to this but the intent is to make work measurement more accurate and more to the point, eliminate the need for a lot of IE people.

[JustTired]

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

MHO-
I can understand your reaction to this but the intent is to make work measurement more accurate and more to the point, eliminate the need for a lot of IE people.

How does this measurement work? Is it a distance measurement from the stationary package car to the stop complete point (a-b)? Or is it your actual walk (up 2 flights of stairs, around a fence in the yard, etc.)? If it's the former, I see a lot of allowance loss potential.

[Chnandler Bong]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

Red, it seems to me that by filing a greivance on this you are giving a level of credibility to time studies. Are time studies mentioned in the contract anywhere?

Agreed. I was always told that the union doesn't recognize time allowances. However they want to come up with their fairy tale numbers is up to them.

I guess this could be read as the company acknowledging that their time studies are inaccurate. But like it said in another post, it's probably just a move to eliminate some IE jobs. We all know it's not for our benefit.

[IWorkAsDirected]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

This "virtual" study uses satellite and GPS information to more accurately determine walk distances. As far as I know, it only affects the recorded walks and works best in residential areas.

When an IE does a time study on car, the walk distance is estimated. They break the distances into walk classes. This can have inaccuracies due to the observer, and because there are only a few walk classes used.

From what I've seen this is a good thing. It allows more areas to have their walk allowances studies quickly, and can be easily audited.

It increases accuracy and allows the cost of the study to be reduced. Seems good to me.

I'd be curious to know the result of the grievance.

P-Man

Sorry P aman but there is absolutely NO WAY this can accurately measure walk distance. For example, I have checked out stops on google earth and it simply cannot show the distance when going up a hill. I have alot of big homes built on hills where I have over 60 steps from the street to the door (by the way I take big steps probably close to 3 feet) it cannot show that distance.

On another note about these "virtual" time studies, how in the *** do you come up with drive distances at different speed limits, traffic control devices (dead time) and traffic congestion (slow, dead time)?

Looks like we're all infor more harrassment from management for being overallowed because of new time allowances due to these FAKE time studies.

If you guys are worried about tracking, theres an easy fix to that.

Just dont upload EDD into your board and dont scan the label on the doghouse. The Diad will still send the appropriate tracking info for packages but WILL NOT track your progress, trace or relay any information back to the center like stops remaining.

In addition, it will NOT send alerts that you are not on the right street when you scan a package. You can scan a package 3 blocks away and Diad would have no knowledge of this.

You will have to deliver OLD SCHOOL, but it can be done.

There is no requirement to upload EDD. IF you can get the job done in the same time without it, I recommend not uploading it.

This is not to say you can do anything improper, its just to eliminate the hassle of useless contact with the center for "false" alerts. If you are a regular route driver, you can do this with ease, if you are a utility driver, I dont recommend it unless you are really familiar with the route.

By not uploading EDD, the SAT will not know you exist on the road and will not look for you. By not scanning the doghouse, there will be no package car signature on the road for you car.

I do not use EDD or upload the software.

Caution, only do this if you know how to deliver old school. Using memory and pure 3/40 methods. Otherwise, I dont recommend it.

As for the virtual time studies, they are in place in so. cal. already. As expected, everyone has lost time up to 1 hour per route. Not that it matters, production is not a part of the NMA.

[Big Babooba]

The virtual time study was implemented so that somebody in IE would have a virtual job.

[drewed]

Originally Posted by IWorkAsDirected

Sorry P aman but there is absolutely NO WAY this can accurately measure walk distance. For example, I have checked out stops on google earth and it simply cannot show the distance when going up a hill. I have alot of big homes built on hills where I have over 60 steps from the street to the door (by the way I take big steps probably close to 3 feet) it cannot show that distance.

On another note about these "virtual" time studies, how in the *** do you come up with drive distances at different speed limits, traffic control devices (dead time) and traffic congestion (slow, dead time)?

Looks like we're all infor more harrassment from management for being overallowed because of new time allowances due to these FAKE time studies.

I havent seen the program to do this, but normal GPS can guage elevation so i dont know why the DIAD couldnt as well (it wouldnt be exactly acurrate but itd be closer than doing the straight line)

The drive distances would be the same.....i figure theyd do the study for the week and average out the times so if there was weather, accident or whatever to disrupt traffic it would be taken somewhat out of the problem.

[Hoaxster]

Originally Posted by Big Babooba

The virtual time study was implemented so that somebody in IE would have a virtual job.

And virtual pay and virtual benefits....downsizing. Applied technology.

[Hoaxster]

Originally Posted by JustTired

How does this measurement work? Is it a distance measurement from the stationary package car to the stop complete point (a-b)? Or is it your actual walk (up 2 flights of stairs, around a fence in the yard, etc.)? If it's the former, I see a lot of allowance loss potential.

Sorry, don't know the details...just the overall intent. Reduce IE Time Study people...Reduce costs.

[dillweed]

Originally Posted by Big Babooba

The virtual time study was implemented so that somebody in IE would have a virtual job.

Oh dear, that's funny. I love this site!

[Mike Hawk]

Some IE guy was at our center a week or so ago explaining it, they take your records for any day and use the type of stop(dr front door, dr back door) to compute the walking distances for resi stops. For comm. they give you a list of all your commercial stops and you put it in a category, dock, office etc and they put an allowance in for that. No allowance for misloads or any other preload failures "if they followed the methods there would be no failures". With the new system they can allow for driver meets, didn’t elaborate much on that, and things like security stations on military bases. He claimed an average of 20% gain for drivers, we will see...

PS red how is it a contract violation? Time studies are not recognized by the union so why would the union have a say in how they are changed?

[JustTired]

Originally Posted by Mike Hawk

He claimed an average of 20% gain for drivers, we will see...

OK. So take into account the avg. of 1 hr. lost when pas/edd was implemented. That would give you 12 minutes back. You're still going to be .8 over. That's if it works.

So I'm guessing, whether it works or not, you're going to get 2 more stops per hour. Isn't technology wonderful?