Heres your Circle of Honor award, and a warning letter.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by stevetheupsguy

$70,000 or not I'm not a robot. I'll spout out all of the info you want, but in my lingo. Better yet, I'll let mgmt know in advance when I'm on my way back to the building or I'll start early in order to avoid the auditor in the first place.

the ketter audit requires you know it . If you know it word for word however you can score bonus points for your center on a ketter audit. thats how the hagerstown folks earned the 100 pecent scores by cashing in on the bonus points.

[Fnix]

Originally Posted by tieguy

the ketter audit requires you know it . If you know it word for word however you can score bonus points for your center on a ketter audit. thats how the hagerstown folks earned the 100 pecent scores by cashing in on the bonus points.

I heard they got lucky with the audit people or they were bribed.

[upsdude]

Originally Posted by dragon

UPS dude I am going to check on your story tomorrow when I get in and see if they pulled the letters. I heard about the letters being issued but nothing about retraction. Will give you some feedback......

I heard the same thing last night as I left. One of the guys called in yesterday, I wasn't able to speak with him. A co-worker spoke with the DM yesterday,the DM said the letters "should have never happened".

I sent another letter to Hoffa Sunday that his office should receive today or tomorrow at the latest. The first letter was sent a couple months ago, no response.

[upsdude]

Keter is an audit company wholly owned by Liberty Mutual. UPS is self insured and pays Liberty Mutual to administer an insurance program.

http://www.libertymutualgroup.com/om...=1138356988549


So, if it’s OSHA compliance UPS is looking for and OSHA doesn’t require memorization, why are we being required to memorize?

[longlunchguy]

Originally Posted by tieguy

the ketter audit requires you know it . If you know it word for word however you can score bonus points for your center on a ketter audit. thats how the hagerstown folks earned the 100 pecent scores by cashing in on the bonus points.

When the ketter audit people were in our building, our management team "funneled " drivers that were sure to pass to the auditers and diverted others out a side door. Some drivers were given the day off and told not to come near the building. What little respect I had for our supervisors vanished that day. I hope they never pass another audit again. It is amazing to me that the integrity at ups begins and ends with the driver groups.

[over9five]

Originally Posted by longlunchguy

When the ketter audit people were in our building, our management team "funneled " drivers that were sure to pass to the auditers ....

Ha! They do that here too!

[UPS Lifer]

Originally Posted by UPSBOI

How would OSHA mandate the 5 seeing habits? Maybe DOT but not OSHA.

OSHA can't mandate the 5 seeing habits.... Long ago there was a settlement case between UPS and OSHA. To get away from huge fines UPS agreed to an oversight program. Ketter was the oversight that reported back to OSHA. That oversight to OSHA is gone now. UPS is under no obligation to continue a mandated program of oversight.

During the Ketter oversight, Safety and other compliance issues made drastic improvements and this is a good thing.

Safety etc. improved and the oversight was kept in place. If a problem occurs where by OSHA needs to get involved this oversight program will go miles in rectifying the problem without heavy fines being stipulated.

The fact is this program shows that UPS is a good corporate citizen, promoting safety with outside oversight and it would be extremely hard to put a dent in the armor (some sort of OSHA complaint) because of Ketter.

[covemaster]

If U.P.S really cared about our saftey, why keep us out till 830 pm on dec 26 th , why add work to everyone when its already 98 degrees for the 5th straight day, why send out a guy with doubles in a raging white out! why load people up with extra work before a long holiday weekend, why send out pkg cars and tractors that have seen their best days in 1982, why put unload devices blocking doorways, why not sand the yard and lots better???? WHY ? because its easier to just blame the employee !!!!!! Screw em they can keep their day old bread and rock hard burgers they don't give a crap about us !! Its all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[UPS Lifer]

Originally Posted by covemaster

If U.P.S really cared about our saftey, why keep us out till 830 pm on dec 26 th , why add work to everyone when its already 98 degrees for the 5th straight day, why send out a guy with doubles in a raging white out! why load people up with extra work before a long holiday weekend, why send out pkg cars and tractors that have seen their best days in 1982, why put unload devices blocking doorways, why not sand the yard and lots better???? WHY ? because its easier to just blame the employee !!!!!! Screw em they can keep their day old bread and rock hard burgers they don't give a crap about us !! Its all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

There is a difference between Corporate UPS and your individual centers. Keep that in mind. But anyone here would be kidding ourselves if they didn't think UPS was out to make money. How about you? Are you willing to work for free? I don't think so!

When UPS stops making money you won't have to worry anymore you will be out on the street trying to figure out what to do next!

I am not trying to discount what you say. Poor management at the local level does not excuse any of the above.

But on a corporate level - Ketter is there for oversight of the processes and DOK of the employees. Compliance with regulatory procedures and safety committee best practices as well as established communication (up & down)
is what Ketter is about. .....not how many stops you go out with!

[dragon]

upsdude good follow up, would it not be easier just to memorize the safety information and move on to solving bigger problems......just a thought.

[705red]

On top of it they will attempt ot discipline you for falling their very important ketter audit. If this audit was that important why does ups know they are coming before they show up?

If its that important why are they not in here on dec, 21st checking on our safety?

Why is it when you approach them with a safety concern they ask you if you have addressed it with your management team?

One of the psots say it best, if it looks good on paper!

[dannyboy]

life and tie

with all due respect for your contributions to the subject, i find it very interesting that you (keter/ups management)mandate that we can sing your song word for word, note for note, but yet we dont have to even have a clue to what it means, or know how to apply said theme song.

as i said before, there is a reason most ups drivers are drivers instead if brain surgeons. yeah, we are just as smart, but in a lot of cases we either dont or cant memorize things as well as the next.

So what the heck does it matter if we can sing in key or instead just know how to work and drive safely?

past that, the safety program has made a difference in many areas. but now it has morphed into something strange and much different that what it was created to be.

d

[paidslave]

Originally Posted by UPSBOI

How would OSHA mandate the 5 seeing habits? Maybe DOT but not OSHA.

Sorry to rain on your parade! the Union Negotiated a Safety panel with UPS to make UPS safer. It is in the UNION Contract Booklet that I have at least. Check you local contract.... Knowledge is where it starts.... There is supposed to be a quota per building for safety team people...

I guess Ups is trying to enforce what we asked for, a safer environment for all!

And to answer your question is all they have to do is prove to OSHA they are trying to make our occupation safer!

[upsdude]

Update……..

I learned yesterday morning that another driver was issued a warning letter on Monday. Also spoke with the original person this thread was about, as far as they know the warning letter still stands.

I haven’t seen the DM since Friday. He’s a guy a lot of us have trusted and respected going back 15+ years. Based on my conversation with him Friday and what I’m seeing now, I really hope he’s not the punk he’s appearing to be.

Still waiting for the Teamsters to reply one way or another. I did get some additional Obama junk in the mail yesterday, so I know their mailroom is operational.

[upsdude]

Originally Posted by longlunchguy

When the ketter audit people were in our building, our management team "funneled " drivers that were sure to pass to the auditers and diverted others out a side door. Some drivers were given the day off and told not to come near the building. What little respect I had for our supervisors vanished that day. I hope they never pass another audit again. It is amazing to me that the integrity at ups begins and ends with the driver groups.

Must be part of management training, same here.

[dannyboy]

they had a ketter audit at the center here today. our district safety manager lost close to 90 pounds, way to go girl!

i brought up this thread to her. while our district is very safety oriented, they do not or will they give out warning letters to people that dont know them. what they will do though is give you extra training and assist you in any way they can to comply with the learning behavior.

it is interesting to note that so far in the audit, they had 17 points taken off the score because people did not respond properly to the audit team. 7 of the incorrect responses were from management, 10 from hourly.

funny thing about three of the hourly negative points, came from the same driver that the cm had selected to be audited. cm knew the driver knew all the answers, even went over them the day before. did perfect.

but in front of the audit team, he had three mistakes on all three of the commentaries.

but so it goes.

now, a clarification. if you receive a letter to your file saying they covered the mistakes you made, but dont receive a "warning letter" at your home, then there is nothing to grieve.

if they indeed issue an actual warning letter, it needs to be grieved immediately, by everyone that gets a warning letter of this kind. there is nothing in the contract that covers this type of behavior by management, and is an abuse of the discipline system at ups.

d

[covemaster]

Originally Posted by UPS Lifer

There is a difference between Corporate UPS and your individual centers. Keep that in mind. But anyone here would be kidding ourselves if they didn't think UPS was out to make money. How about you? Are you willing to work for free? I don't think so!

When UPS stops making money you won't have to worry anymore you will be out on the street trying to figure out what to do next!

I am not trying to discount what you say. Poor management at the local level does not excuse any of the above.

But on a corporate level - Ketter is there for oversight of the processes and DOK of the employees. Compliance with regulatory procedures and safety committee best practices as well as established communication (up & down)
is what Ketter is about. .....not how many stops you go out with!

lifer, i'm just lashing out over some issues,we do need to work safe,and it has to be a two way street. You know just as well as I do that a driver out in the extreme heat,cold or brutal snow is more apt to have an accident or slip and fall incident at the end of the day! Your very tired and stressed out and hungary at this time and more likely to have a problem.The company knows this but yet still beats you down and will blame you!! I do appreciate my paycheck every week and never felt guilty from cashing it as I have always given this place my best!! I just don't feel right being told I am an unsafe worker or just lucky I havn't been hurt yet after 20 yrs with out an injury and only 1 fender bender in my 2nd yr,{scraped paint on fire hydrent} NOT BITTER,just don't like being treated like a 2nd grader in lunch line!!!

[UPS Lifer]

Originally Posted by covemaster

lifer, i'm just lashing out over some issues,we do need to work safe,and it has to be a two way street. You know just as well as I do that a driver out in the extreme heat,cold or brutal snow is more apt to have an accident or slip and fall incident at the end of the day! Your very tired and stressed out and hungary at this time and more likely to have a problem.The company knows this but yet still beats you down and will blame you!! I do appreciate my paycheck every week and never felt guilty from cashing it as I have always given this place my best!! I just don't feel right being told I am an unsafe worker or just lucky I havn't been hurt yet after 20 yrs with out an injury and only 1 fender bender in my 2nd yr,{scraped paint on fire hydrent} NOT BITTER,just don't like being treated like a 2nd grader in lunch line!!!

You are not getting a beef from me on this. I would not knowingly jeopardize one of my employees safety.

I have one major requirement for running an operation. I have to be able to sleep at night (or during the day! depending on the operation!!).

If I can't live with myself, you won't find me doing things that are mandated just because someone else says it. Fortunately, I never had to worry about these type of issues.

Occasionally, when I did have an issue, I told the Div or Dist Mgr what my plan was and how I would run the operation to make the goals.

I believed in safety throughout the operation in all areas. A safe operation is a well performing operation. Work on keeping your employee's happy and they will work safer. If you really care about their safety it shines through and they will work with you to make the operation safe.

Sounds like a fairy tale but it depends on the management team and especially the manager. It can work.

[dannyboy]

Sounds like a fairy tale but it depends on the management team and especially the manager. It can work.

once upon a time ups had a great idea. it suggested that upper management's job was to remove barriers that existed for lower level management and let them shine in their sector. that philosophy went all the way to the hourly. who better to know how to do the job than the people that actually did the job. delivery sups were there to coordinate and remove barriers from the driving workforce. that way, you also utilized all 300,000 brains instead of just a select few.

and you know what happened? huge gains in productivity and business growth, and employee job satisfaction.

then came along someone else,who decided that only the ie department has a brain that really mattered, no one else. once again, ups became a bottom up service, again with the focus of the business at the top. with all the trimmings. and your average del sup-cm has once again become a paper shuffler/sounding board for the sounds of $it rolling down hill

i would love to see the former surface again, but once the egos have the control, rarely do they ever loosen the ropes.

d

[covemaster]

Originally Posted by UPS Lifer

You are not getting a beef from me on this. I would not knowingly jeopardize one of my employees safety.

I have one major requirement for running an operation. I have to be able to sleep at night (or during the day! depending on the operation!!).

If I can't live with myself, you won't find me doing things that are mandated just because someone else says it. Fortunately, I never had to worry about these type of issues.

Occasionally, when I did have an issue, I told the Div or Dist Mgr what my plan was and how I would run the operation to make the goals.

I believed in safety throughout the operation in all areas. A safe operation is a well performing operation. Work on keeping your employee's happy and they will work safer. If you really care about their safety it shines through and they will work with you to make the operation safe.

Sounds like a fairy tale but it depends on the management team and especially the manager. It can work.

as in the past I have always respected you post and wish I had worked for a Mgr like you! I just can't respect some of the B.S that some of these young gun sups are pulling these days as I have told you in the past you wouldn't believe the things that go on here now a days... as far as safety,my main goal is to get that feeder back in one piece every morning and go home to my family, I just think it would be nice to see UPS go to bat for any long time employee when it comes to an accident and give the driver the benefit of doubt and not blame him/her right off the bat. In doing so you might as well give the other party involved a blank check if the driver say ""hell yah its my fault they will blame me anyhow"" I have close to 19 yrs safe driving and I would expect them to listen to me before telling me I should of been looking left at the time I was looking right !! I hope you are enjoying your retirement best to you cove

[brownrodster]

Originally Posted by over9five

Ha! They do that here too!

Same here. I got funnelled to an auditor while other guys arriving at the same time as me where told to hurry up and leave ASAP!!!!

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

once upon a time ups had a great idea. it suggested that upper management's job was to remove barriers that existed for lower level management and let them shine in their sector. that philosophy went all the way to the hourly. who better to know how to do the job than the people that actually did the job. delivery sups were there to coordinate and remove barriers from the driving workforce. that way, you also utilized all 300,000 brains instead of just a select few.

and you know what happened? huge gains in productivity and business growth, and employee job satisfaction.

then came along someone else,who decided that only the ie department has a brain that really mattered, no one else. once again, ups became a bottom up service, again with the focus of the business at the top. with all the trimmings. and your average del sup-cm has once again become a paper shuffler/sounding board for the sounds of rolling down hill

i would love to see the former surface again, but once the egos have the control, rarely do they ever loosen the ropes.

d

This down hill slide all started with the plan to have UP$ enter the public stock market. I'm afraid there is no turning back to the good 'ole days.

[dannyboy]

This down hill slide all started with the plan to have UP$ enter the public stock market. I'm afraid there is no turning back to the good 'ole days.

i dont know if we want to use the phrase turning back. i prefer to think of it as a hard look at the whole business. the minds of so many is a terrible thing to waste. and how are managers ever going to learn new skills unless they are empowered to challenge the status quo and try something new and innovative.

maybe with the change at the top.........we will have to see what item becomes the flavor of the month/year

d

[upsdude]

Update…………

All of the warning letters still stand, the drivers received copies in the mail. As of yesterday the local has done NOTHING. As of yesterday the International has done NOTHING.

Teamsters Local 822 = Worthless
IBT National = Worthless

Teamsters for Obama, how about Teamsters for Members?

[dannyboy]

Dude, you have got to be kidding. under what grounds?

d