What is L.P. thinking?

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

So Red is saying that these thieves stole cell phones, were caught and fired for it, then came back to UPS to sell it on their property at a later date? And this guy was completely innocent, had no idea about these people?

That smells of bull. C'mon are you telling me the bulk driver ( who comes to face with most every person in the building no matter what the oepration -center or hub - had no idea of what went on?

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by dillweed

This is not a funny topic. Tie, throwing stuff like this around must make you a hoot at work.

Dilli ,

You have clearly misunderstood me. I'm not trying to be entertaining here. The morals applied in this case are not consistent. You would tell me to fry the guy if you knew he stole it. But because he bought stolen goods we are supposed to look the other way.

You don't buy a brand new Blackberry for a 100 bucks unless its hot. This is one of those deals where the union can defend the guy by saying he did not know he was buying hot goods at an 80 percent discount.

The law is different , if you're in possession you're guilty.

If you're going to defend the receiver of stolen goods then you might as well just give him your valuables because you are condoning thievery.

I have no use for thievery and I will not condone it.

I respect the fact that Red did his job defending the guy but comon red don't make excuses for him , he knew he was buying hot merchandise.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by soberups

If the employee knew the phone was hot, then why did he register it with LP and get a property pass for it? And why did LP issue one? Phones have serial numbers, if I bought a hot phone at UPS the last thing I would do would be to turn around and register the damn thing with the same people it had been stolen from!

What we have here quite obviously is an overzealous LP person who is just trying to justify his own paycheck.

Sober , He didn't think he would be caught. I have seen a lot of thievery over the years and they always did something stupid to get caught. Saw one guy steal a pair of boots from us and wear them to work the next day. I've seen quite a few phone thieves steal phones and try to wear them out as if they were their personal phones. You can't alibi the stupidity of a phone thief.

You don't buy a brand new blackberry phone worth 600 to 1000 bucks for a 100 bucks unless its hot.

Red won his case on your argument he denied knowing it was hot.

In the courts possession of stolen goods is enough to get you convicted. they don't have to prove you knew you were buying stolen goods.

If you're going to buy merchandise from someone at a huge discount the smart thing to do would be to ask him for a reciept showing he bought it legitimately.

too many two faced posters that cry about thievery but love to buy stolen goods at a discount.

If you're against thievery then you should consistently be against the person funding the thievery.

[705red]

Originally Posted by pemanager

Red,

Am I mis-understanding? I thought the States Attorneys, or D.A.'s office, decided when to charge somebody and with what offense. I believe that UPS can file a complaint and present evidence and that is it, they can't force charges to be filed or dropped. If the attorney is pursuing the charges that would seem to indicate that there is evidence to substantiate the charge.

During the case yesterday they did not prove he stole the phone, their argument since losing at panel is he is in possesion of a stolen phone. They just want him to plead guilty to something. Our lp department has a losing record on cases at panel 0 for evrything that we have brought downtown. Looks like someones job might be on the line, as it should be!

Originally Posted by IDoLessWorkThanMost

I have to disagree with you here, in principal. Because you are "not guilty until proven" does not mean you aren't guilty.

He was on UPS property buying a stolen cell phone from someone who was fired 3 weeks prior for stealing.

I'm sure the bulk train driver knew this person, or these people , that were [b]on UPS property[b] while having been discharged 3 weeks prior ( that sounds suspicious from an unbiased point of view) and selling cell phones on that very private property?


Surely, I couldn't prove it, and wouldn't want to be UPSs gang trying to prove he recieved stolen goods knowingly. They will persue it to the end though, and take whatever last penny they can from this guy, right or wrong.

When he bought this phone these employees were still working there, they had not been caught yet. And i agree it was stupid to but a phone off of someone, but this is were ups has to make a decision, did he steal it or in possesion of stolen goods. They crucified this kid, by dragging him through the building in hand cuffs in front of his co workers embarrasing him. He wants to clear his name and i want to help!

[705red]

[quote=tieguy;410411]
You don't buy a brand new blackberry phone worth 600 to 1000 bucks for a 100 bucks unless its hot.

Red won his case on your argument he denied knowing it was hot.



Tie you can get a blackberry for free with a 2 year agreement almost everywere, att, tmoblie, verizon etc.

The kid he bought it off was giving him and others a story about how he and his family were hurting for money. Stupid yes, wroth 2 nights in jail with gang bangers while your pregnant wife is tryiing to come up with thousands of dollars to get you out? NO!

[UpstateNYUPSer]

Originally Posted by 705red

They crucified this kid, by dragging him through the building in hand cuffs in front of his co workers embarrasing him. He wants to clear his name and i want to help!

I am certain this show was put on for the sole purpose of putting the fear of God in anyone who may have been thinking of trying to do the same.

I'm sorry, Red, but I have to disagree with you. It sure does appear to me that this kid either knew the original thieves or knew of their plan and wanted a cheap Blackberry and didn't think he would get caught and he most likely would not have had he not chosen to register the phone with UPS so that he could bring it back in to the same bldg that it had been stolen from.

At the very least he should be charged with possession of stolen goods. At the worst he could be charged as an accessory.

[705red]

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

I am certain this show was put on for the sole purpose of putting the fear of God in anyone who may have been thinking of trying to do the same.

I'm sorry, Red, but I have to disagree with you. It sure does appear to me that this kid either knew the original thieves or knew of their plan and wanted a cheap Blackberry and didn't think he would get caught and he most likely would not have had he not chosen to register the phone with UPS so that he could bring it back in to the same bldg that it had been stolen from.

At the very least he should be charged with possession of stolen goods. At the worst he could be charged as an accessory.

I look at the contract and the contract under cardinal sins says "theft" not possesion of stolen goods. So because ups screwed up and charged him with the wrong crime felony theft he should plead guilty to it?

Ups should admit they were wrong and drop the felony theft charge, why should they get multiple chances at proving different charges?

Ups lp is hot because this kid is back to work and why should he plead down on the charges when he cant be convicted of posseison of stolen goods because he was charged with stealing it? Big difference.

Ups has to prove he stole it which they can not!

I have some other stories that would blow your mind that are pretty recent were they allowed a driver to retire after being charged with a felony, yet they want to make an example out of this kid for being stupid. this story that im speakingof has not even made the papers YET!

[dannyboy]

red

there are a couple of problems i have with the time line.

first, you stated the guys got fired before the buy, then after. really does not matter. an honest person would have 1 known that the phones were hot after the guys got canned for stealing, 2 found out about it afterwards, and come forward to lp with the phone and the story about the parkinglot sale. an honest person would not have waited for lp to bust him at work. with all that has been posted, i do find it very hard to believe that the part timer is totally innocent as you state.

as has been stated, since the charges have been filed with the state, ups does not have a dog in the race to offer a lesser plea. that is the job of the da, not lp. it is also the state that decides on the weight of the proof in this matter if there is enough hard evidence to proceed with the trial.

as a practical matter, he is very guilty of buying stolen goods. does not have to have the knowledge of the goods being stolen to be guilty of that. and stupidity.

d

[covemaster]

This kid isn't to bright,young and stupid but probaly a decent guy,they should suspend him for a week ,put him on a tight leash and consider it a lesson learned for himself! cant believe a kid from Chicago wasn't street smart,but what can we expect from a Cubs fan.WWJD cut him a break this time !!

[tieguy]

[quote=705red;410428]

Originally Posted by tieguy

You don't buy a brand new blackberry phone worth 600 to 1000 bucks for a 100 bucks unless its hot.

Red won his case on your argument he denied knowing it was hot.



Tie you can get a blackberry for free with a 2 year agreement almost everywere, att, tmoblie, verizon etc.

The kid he bought it off was giving him and others a story about how he and his family were hurting for money. Stupid yes, wroth 2 nights in jail with gang bangers while your pregnant wife is tryiing to come up with thousands of dollars to get you out? NO!

Red, how much does this blackberry cost if you don't sign up for the two year plan? A heck of a lot more then 100 bucks.

Don't let the guys wife being pregnant fool you. At the point the LP guys busted him he was in possession of a stolen blackberry phone that was worth enough for the police to come in and arrest him. The police would not even bother if he stole a 100 or even 200 dollar phone. You're alibiing a thief Red.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by 705red

I look at the contract and the contract under cardinal sins says "theft" not possesion of stolen goods. So because ups screwed up and charged him with the wrong crime felony theft he should plead guilty to it?

At the point they charged him they had a person in possession of a stolen phone. So they would charge him as the theif.

Ups should admit they were wrong and drop the felony theft charge, why should they get multiple chances at proving different charges?

Ah Red I think you do have your gut in this one. DA decides to prosecute for theft based on the evidence. I respect your sense of compassion for the guy. But the fact is it is really hard for UPS to get a DA to chase a minor theft case. There is more to this one then your client is admitting.

Ups lp is hot because this kid is back to work and why should he plead down on the charges when he cant be convicted of posseison of stolen goods because he was charged with stealing it? Big difference.

You're making more of UPS's involvement then what is deserved. We had a guy in possession of a stolen phone. We called the police. Police investigated. they didn't see a nice guy with a pregnant wife who got snookered. they found a thief who needed to be prosecuted. The DA found a thief who needed to be prosecuted. Our involvement stopped wheh we called them. You do not know how hard it is for UPS to get the local DA to chase a one item theft of this type. there is more to this case then you are letting yourself believe.

Ups has to prove he stole it which they can not!

Nope DA has to prove possession. Thats it.

I have some other stories that would blow your mind that are pretty recent were they allowed a driver to retire after being charged with a felony, yet they want to make an example out of this kid for being stupid. this story that im speakingof has not even made the papers YET!

Red I love your feelings of compassion but you're too emotional with this one. the kid is a thief.

[dannyboy]

Tie you can get a blackberry for free with a 2 year agreement almost everywere, att, tmoblie, verizon etc.

really? here it is 299 with the two year signing plan.

have yet to see where they are free. care to send me some info on a blackberry for free?

then that also poses the second question. of you can get it for free, why would someone want to sell it for 300, and the guy pay 100?

d

[dilligaf]

[quote=tieguy;410410]Dilli ,

quote]
Clearly Tie, you seem to have such a problem with me that you can't even remember who it is that you are talking to. I haven't even been here for more than 10 days. And before you go on about how you weren't using my name, everyone here knows that you always use 'dilli' when addressing me. Most everyone does. I am tired of your constant harassment. STOP

[dilligaf]

Originally Posted by 705red

When he was questioned about it he told ups that he had bought the phone from so and so. This other employee had been fired 3 weeks before for stealing cell phones.

Daniel, I am guessing this is the part of Reds statement that you are talking about. This does sound like a contradiction.

[705red]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

red

there are a couple of problems i have with the time line.

first, you stated the guys got fired before the buy, then after. really does not matter. an honest person would have 1 known that the phones were hot after the guys got canned for stealing, 2 found out about it afterwards, and come forward to lp with the phone and the story about the parkinglot sale. an honest person would not have waited for lp to bust him at work. with all that has been posted, i do find it very hard to believe that the part timer is totally innocent as you state.

as has been stated, since the charges have been filed with the state, ups does not have a dog in the race to offer a lesser plea. that is the job of the da, not lp. it is also the state that decides on the weight of the proof in this matter if there is enough hard evidence to proceed with the trial.

as a practical matter, he is very guilty of buying stolen goods. does not have to have the knowledge of the goods being stolen to be guilty of that. and stupidity.

d

Danny im sorry if my time frame was confusing, he was fired for stealing the phones 3 weeks after the guys were who originally stole the phone were fired. He had bought the phone several weeks before they were caught. He had registered the phone with security so he could get a pass to have it on him at work.

Im in the largeat package delivery center in the usa, with close to 500 package car drivers so its real easy to go weeks even months without seeing some people. Not everyone at ups knew these two criminals were caught stealing phones.

During the original interview lp did not even admit that they knew who he bought the phone off of even though it was the same lp person that fired these two guys. It was a ptime sup that came into the office and said you fired so and so a couple of weeks ago for stealing cell phones.

[quote=tieguy;410617]

Originally Posted by 705red

Red, how much does this blackberry cost if you don't sign up for the two year plan? A heck of a lot more then 100 bucks.

Don't let the guys wife being pregnant fool you. At the point the LP guys busted him he was in possession of a stolen blackberry phone that was worth enough for the police to come in and arrest him. The police would not even bother if he stole a 100 or even 200 dollar phone. You're alibiing a thief Red.

Tie they said the value of the phone was $400. When i look at theft i dont care about monetary value theft of a dollar is just as bad as $1,000. There was alot of bs to this case and after hearing the facts i took it to panel, and he was returned to work. Ups is not in the habit of returning theives under any conditions, so that means that labor agreed that hes not a theif!

I will be at the next court date and so will several other agents from 705 after i talked to them today. The local ius even helping him get an attorney to defend himself.

[dannyboy]

705

thank you for clearing that up.

i had some time off once because of a would be lp man. it was not that the employee is innocent, and the company has to prove guilt, it was more like we think this is what has happened, and it is up to you to prove us wrong.

so i do know how some lp people operate

d

[soberups]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

705

thank you for clearing that up.

i had some time off once because of a would be lp man. it was not that the employee is innocent, and the company has to prove guilt, it was more like we think this is what has happened, and it is up to you to prove us wrong.

so i do know how some lp people operate

d

Many of the LP people I have dealt with during my 20 years were wannabe cops. They are predisposed to thinking that everybody is a thief. They also are under pressure to justify their own jobs....if we are paying an LP person $60K or more a year, he had damn well better find at least $60K in losses to prevent or someone will start questioning whether or not it even makes financial sense to keep him on the payroll. If they cant find a problem to solve they will invent one.

[tieguy]

[quote=dilligaf;410790]

Originally Posted by tieguy

Dilli ,

quote]
Clearly Tie, you seem to have such a problem with me that you can't even remember who it is that you are talking to. I haven't even been here for more than 10 days. And before you go on about how you weren't using my name, everyone here knows that you always use 'dilli' when addressing me. Most everyone does. I am tired of your constant harassment. STOP

Your infatuation with me that allows you to think I have made you something special has been duly noted. If you don't like what I say when I respond to your post then the easiest thing you can do to stop this alleged "harrassment" is to not address a post to me.

By the way what does DILLIGAF stand for why does it not apply here?

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by 705red

Tie they said the value of the phone was $400. When i look at theft i dont care about monetary value theft of a dollar is just as bad as $1,000. There was alot of bs to this case and after hearing the facts i took it to panel, and he was returned to work. Ups is not in the habit of returning theives under any conditions, so that means that labor agreed that hes not a theif!

I will be at the next court date and so will several other agents from 705 after i talked to them today. The local ius even helping him get an attorney to defend himself.

Red I don't fault you for doing your job and I admire your passion for it.
Your labor case was an easy one to win if the company could not provide concrete proof the guy knew it was hot.

With that said I do think LP Also did their job in this case with the details I have read so far.

I'm not sure what you expected them to do different in this case.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by soberups

Many of the LP people I have dealt with during my 20 years were wannabe cops. They are predisposed to thinking that everybody is a thief. They also are under pressure to justify their own jobs....if we are paying an LP person $60K or more a year, he had damn well better find at least $60K in losses to prevent or someone will start questioning whether or not it even makes financial sense to keep him on the payroll. If they cant find a problem to solve they will invent one.

Sober thats a good point and something an LP person has to guard against.

However an LP person wanting to be a policeman has nothing to do with the fact the guy was caught with a stolen blackberry.

This was a bad decision by the person who bought the phone. The LP guy did not tell him to make that decision.

[Dutch Dawg]

Soo..what happened to the two guys fired for originally stealing this phone as far as criminal charges? Zip...nada, zilch, nuthn?

Blackberry Curves can be had for as little as $200, unlocked, in the original box from bonafide sellers, if one looks around. It's not too perposterous to believe one would think they were entering into a legit deal to buy one slightly used from someone in need of money for $100.

For someone to believe the depth of charges are solely left to the PA, DA or whatever you wanna call the scum (oh my did I say that) in real world life leads me to believe they need to get out of the house and away from courtroom drama on the TV. Prosecution in a case like this could very easily be influenced by a corporation of this size. Go ahead and slam me for expressing such a low opinion of persecuting(sic) attorneys. My experience with them has led me to believe many are more concerned with their political future than true justice.

[dannyboy]

sober/tie

actually he tried to get on the sheriff department part time, but couldnt pass the physical, so he volunteered in the auxiliary. they even gave him a badge which he loved to flash. but that is another subject.

the whole episode was one of the reasons why the contract now reads that only one helper per driver at a time. at the time i was using three helpers all at once. and it was the lack of oversight of what each of the helpers were doing and had done that caused the problem.

d

[Mr.Brown]

Red is just doing his job as a shop steward!!!, UPS is not a bad company but they dont care if the ruin some ones life all they care is about numbers!! the employee worked there for 7 years, thats a lot crap to put up with, why would quit just to drop charges. that does not help that would make him look guilty. so i say good job red, we need more stweards like you.

[beefybudds]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

really? here it is 299 with the two year signing plan.

have yet to see where they are free. care to send me some info on a blackberry for free?

then that also poses the second question. of you can get it for free, why would someone want to sell it for 300, and the guy pay 100?

d

BlackBerrys can be free for UPS employess thru TMO with new activation or upgrade, and no more than $200 thru others.
BB

[over9five]

Originally Posted by beefybudds

BlackBerrys can be free for UPS employess thru TMO with new activation or upgrade, and no more than $200 thru others.
BB

Blackberrys can be free to UPS employees without TMO, too!!!
LOL