What is L.P. thinking?

[705red]

A ptime employee was terminated and charged with felony theft for a cell phone they accused him of stealing. The employee spent several days in jail until he could get bonded out. At the low level the company would not listen to reason so the case was sent to panel.

At panel we proved that the employee did not steal the phone. He is a bulk driver that drives a mule with the train carts behind him, he only moves oversize packages. He does not unload package cars, trailers etc.

The company stated that he is in possesion of the phone so he stole it. The employee told lp, his bosses, and labor that he bought the phone in the parking lot one night. an employee approached him and several other employees trying to sell a blackberry for $300, they said no way. The employee said cmon i really need money for my family.

So my guy says i will give you a $100, the seller opened up the phone took out his sim card and handed the phone to my guy. What does my guy than do? He registers the phone with ups and receives a property pass.

When he was questioned about it he told ups that he had bought the phone from so and so. This other employee had been fired 3 weeks before for stealing cell phones.

He won his job back at panel and has been back to work for a couple of weeks.

Well the employee asked me if i could come to court with him today so, i took the day, on my own time to go and explain if needed. Ups is pushing the states attorney to continue this case, the states attorney offered him a plea down to guilty on a misdeamenor theft charge. We discussed it and agreed that he is not guilty of the charges that he is charged with.

He now has a trial date set for the middle of november, and i will be at this date and any other dates to assist this employee from wrongful prosecution. I am also filing a complaint with Lisa Madigan, Dick Devine and the ill attorney generals office for allowing ups to waste our tax dollars!

[over9five]

Red, just playing Devils Advocate....

Isn't receiving stolen property a crime in itself?? I mean, even common sense would tell you not to buy something like that right in the UPS parking lot! Even ANYWHERE, if someone tried to sell me a cell phone, my first thought would be, "It's probably stolen".

Good luck to your buddy regardless!

[705red]

Over it was stupid on his part, but he was not arrested for buying/ being in possesion of stolen merchandise he was arrested for stealing it. Two different charges and we know how ups likes to throw crap at the wall and hopes something sticks.

By the way the name i used is an elected democratic states attorney, we have used politicians names here in the past without them being deleted.

[raceanoncr]

Originally Posted by 705red

Well the employee asked me if i could come to court with him today so, i took the day, on my own time to go and explain if needed. Ups is pushing the states attorney to continue this case, the states attorney offered him a plea down to guilty on a misdeamenor theft charge. We discussed it and agreed that he is not guilty of the charges that he is charged with.

He now has a trial date set for the middle of november, and i will be at this date and any other dates to assist this employee from wrongful prosecution. I am also filing a complaint with Lisa Madigan, Dick Devine and the ill attorney generals office for allowing ups to waste our tax dollars!

Good for you, Red. Glad to see somebody is going the xtra mile. Wish we could say the same here.

[sortaisle]

Does anyone know what LP is thinking? At this point, it's not your local LP that's pushing this, but labor. Labor is the one that's using up the tax dollars in Illinois. Good on you for sticking up and standing up for your boy. Wish you were in Spokane.

[sortaisle]

Originally Posted by 705red

He is a bulk driver that drives a mule with the train carts behind him, he only moves oversize packages. He does not unload package cars, trailers etc.

So he's an irreg driver? Drops off longs and over 70's and such?

[tieguy]

and you guys will get indignant when someone steals your property. This guy is in possession of a stolen phone. 100 bucks for a blackberry? Give me a break! If you want to stop the theft then you have to bust the guy who buys the stolen goods. To me the thief and the reciever of stolen goods are basically one and the same.

company does not know if the guys story is accurate. company does not know if the guy was an innocent buyer of stolen goods (chuckle) or in cahoots with the other guy. The company does know the guy was in possession of a stolen phone. When it comes to thieves kill em all and let god sort them out into their respective bins.

So yes Red good job fighting for a thief. And you guys who want red in your local fighting for your thieves crack me up. What a bunch of but kissers you guys are. Till the next time someone breaks into your car or house and takes your stuff. Then we will see you on here crying about your losses.

Your union needs to show some integrity and let the thieves fend for theirselves. What a huge waste of union dues money spent fighting to defend a guy who had to know he was buying stolen goods. Thats if the guy really did buy it hot.

[raceanoncr]

Originally Posted by tieguy

and you guys will get indignant when someone steals your property. This guy is in possession of a stolen phone. 100 bucks for a blackberry? Give me a break! If you want to stop the theft then you have to bust the guy who buys the stolen goods. To me the thief and the reciever of stolen goods are basically one and the same.

company does not know if the guys story is accurate. company does not know if the guy was an innocent buyer of stolen goods (chuckle) or in cahoots with the other guy. The company does know the guy was in possession of a stolen phone. When it comes to thieves kill em all and let god sort them out into their respective bins.

So yes Red good job fighting for a thief. And you guys who want red in your local fighting for your thieves crack me up.

Your union needs to show some integrity and let the thieves fend for theirselves. What a huge waste of union dues money spent fighting to defend a guy who had to know he was buying stolen goods.

Cmon, Tie, cut us some slack! Did this guy know this phone was stolen? Maybe, maybe not! You ever been approached by some slack-jawed indigents in the parking lot looking for a quick sell? I have. Before this parking lot was secured (?), we had all kinds roaming through (hard to imagine because UPS always builds in such high-security places! sarcasm intended). If he did know it was stolen, was it stolen from UPS? Did he ask? Geez, whiz, I don't know if I woulda thot of that! You mean you ain't never kited some snag you didn't know the origins or destinations of? If not, I applaud you for being more righteous than me.

I, for one, was not siding with a thief or buyer or, to you, both. I was merely thanking RED for standing up more than usual. We just don't have that here with our personel. I merely wish we did.

Here, I wish we could nab the thieves with ties on. That would be a ground-shaker, wouldn't it?

[drewed]

Red, I applaud you for helping out your fellow man, i just hope you dont end up being burned at the end of this.

[sortaisle]

Originally Posted by 705red

A ptime employee was terminated and charged with felony theft for a cell phone they accused him of stealing. The employee spent several days in jail until he could get bonded out. At the low level the company would not listen to reason so the case was sent to panel.

At panel we proved that the employee did not steal the phone. He is a bulk driver that drives a mule with the train carts behind him, he only moves oversize packages. He does not unload package cars, trailers etc.

The company stated that he is in possesion of the phone so he stole it. The employee told lp, his bosses, and labor that he bought the phone in the parking lot one night. an employee approached him and several other employees trying to sell a blackberry for $300, they said no way. The employee said cmon i really need money for my family.

So my guy says i will give you a $100, the seller opened up the phone took out his sim card and handed the phone to my guy. What does my guy than do? He registers the phone with ups and receives a property pass.

When he was questioned about it he told ups that he had bought the phone from so and so. This other employee had been fired 3 weeks before for stealing cell phones.

He won his job back at panel and has been back to work for a couple of weeks.

Well the employee asked me if i could come to court with him today so, i took the day, on my own time to go and explain if needed. Ups is pushing the states attorney to continue this case, the states attorney offered him a plea down to guilty on a misdeamenor theft charge. We discussed it and agreed that he is not guilty of the charges that he is charged with.

He now has a trial date set for the middle of november, and i will be at this date and any other dates to assist this employee from wrongful prosecution. I am also filing a complaint with Lisa Madigan, Dick Devine and the ill attorney generals office for allowing ups to waste our tax dollars!

Originally Posted by tieguy

and you guys will get indignant when someone steals your property. This guy is in possession of a stolen phone. 100 bucks for a blackberry? Give me a break! If you want to stop the theft then you have to bust the guy who buys the stolen goods. To me the thief and the reciever of stolen goods are basically one and the same.

company does not know if the guys story is accurate. company does not know if the guy was an innocent buyer of stolen goods (chuckle) or in cahoots with the other guy. The company does know the guy was in possession of a stolen phone. When it comes to thieves kill em all and let god sort them out into their respective bins.

So yes Red good job fighting for a thief. And you guys who want red in your local fighting for your thieves crack me up. What a bunch of but kissers you guys are. Till the next time someone breaks into your car or house and takes your stuff. Then we will see you on here crying about your losses.

Your union needs to show some integrity and let the thieves fend for theirselves. What a huge waste of union dues money spent fighting to defend a guy who had to know he was buying stolen goods. Thats if the guy really did buy it hot.

Oh come on bud, there is no proof whatsoever that the guy who bought the phone was in cahoots or not. And tying in the bought blackberry to our stuff getting stolen is cheap and not something I thought you would do. Until the guy is proven guilty, he is innocent. And insinuating that Red doesn't know the difference between guilty and innocent is a slap to his face. I don't think he would stand up for a thief, who would? My opinion is the guy who bought the Blackberry isn't very smart.

[Hawaii50]

Felony theft is a 1000 dollars or more. The LP is suppose to say petty theft becuase the phone is valued under a 1000 dollars. Now the PT timer might be able to file a lawuit against UPS for being brought up on false charges. Bail for Felony theft is more expensive then Petty theft.

[dillweed]

Originally Posted by tieguy

...When it comes to thieves kill em all and let god sort them out into their respective bins. ...

This is not a funny topic. Tie, throwing stuff like this around must make you a hoot at work.

[705red]

Originally Posted by tieguy

and you guys will get indignant when someone steals your property. This guy is in possession of a stolen phone. 100 bucks for a blackberry? Give me a break! If you want to stop the theft then you have to bust the guy who buys the stolen goods. To me the thief and the reciever of stolen goods are basically one and the same.

company does not know if the guys story is accurate. company does not know if the guy was an innocent buyer of stolen goods (chuckle) or in cahoots with the other guy. The company does know the guy was in possession of a stolen phone. When it comes to thieves kill em all and let god sort them out into their respective bins.

So yes Red good job fighting for a thief. And you guys who want red in your local fighting for your thieves crack me up. What a bunch of but kissers you guys are. Till the next time someone breaks into your car or house and takes your stuff. Then we will see you on here crying about your losses.

Your union needs to show some integrity and let the thieves fend for theirselves. What a huge waste of union dues money spent fighting to defend a guy who had to know he was buying stolen goods. Thats if the guy really did buy it hot.

Tie just because some knucklehead in lp thinks he stole the phone doesnt make it so! If they believed he was a theif anyone with half of a brain would have done some sort of investigation to catch him in the act,

Ups has no problem using video to catch theifs, but they decided not to do a proper investigation. They had the employee charged with a felony for theft with no burden of proof. Tie you are aware of just cause?

He told ups who he bought it off of and both these guys (real theives) were fired 3 weeks before for actually getting caught stealing. This phone was stolen before they got caught and during my investigation i found out that the real theif was at work in this area the night the phone disappeared. If i could ask these questions why couldnt the lp department?

I really hope this employee gets an attorney and files a civil lawsuit against the lp people and ups!

Ups always talks about protecting the shield! I will throw the shield under the bus at trial and i will call some of my reporter friends so they can be in attendance and see just how ups treats their employees! I promise this!

[Hoaxster]

Part-timer - probably under 25.
Know why car insurance is so high for males under 25 - lack of judgement.
Sounds like there is no hard evidence.
Hopefully the P/T learns a hard lesson from this experience!

On another tack.
Tie is right in that we don't really know the truth.
We have the responsibility to protect ourselves and our customers.
This guy is P/T so UPS has not become a career job yet.
I wonder if UPS would drop the charges if the guy agreed to resign?

[705red]

Originally Posted by drewed

Red, I applaud you for helping out your fellow man, i just hope you dont end up being burned at the end of this.

I wasnt aware pt sups knew how to make threats like this?

Yes ups knows who i am and when i believe in something as strongly as this i will use this forum to shead light on the issue. I did last year over unsafe procedures at our gas pumps and i will continue to.

I am married with 3 kids and i do the job to the best of my ability, now if you think i am scared to get followed around all day you are wrong. I so use my handrails, i dont cheat, steal time etc. If i notice that i am being followed i will just call the cops because i fear for the safety of my packages that im dring and to let them know i see them.

Its amazing how much ot you can get when you do it by the book!

If i dont give them a reason to fire me i will have nothing to worry about. If the are going to fire me (again) they better make it good because i always have come back with more conviction.

[705red]

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

Part-timer - probably under 25.
Know why car insurance is so high for males under 25 - lack of judgement.
Sounds like there is no hard evidence.
Hopefully the P/T learns a hard lesson from this experience!

On another tack.
Tie is right in that we don't really know the truth.
We have the responsibility to protect ourselves and our customers.
This guy is P/T so UPS has not become a career job yet.
I wonder if UPS would drop the charges if the guy agreed to resign?

Look he is not resigning! he is a 7 year ptimer and we will not make a deal over this! Ups has already giving him his job back! He is at work right now as i type this.

I guess none of you have ever bought off of ebay!

[Hoaxster]

Originally Posted by 705red

Look he is not resigning! he is a 7 year ptimer and we will not make a deal over this! Ups has already giving him his job back! He is at work right now as i type this.

I guess none of you have ever bought off of ebay!

Chill out Dude ... sounds like you could use a Lude, man. Used mine up 30 years ago...can't help.

Seriously, just trying to be helpful. A P/T job at UPS does not seem worth having a criminal record.

[705red]

If hes has been found not guilty at panel by the members on the panel teamsters and ups, why should he admit wrong doing? Why should he quit his job because ups management screwed up. Im willing to beat his job if he loses he will quit, but when he wins lp should quit!

[drewed]

Originally Posted by 705red

I wasnt aware pt sups knew how to make threats like this?

Yes ups knows who i am and when i believe in something as strongly as this i will use this forum to shead light on the issue. I did last year over unsafe procedures at our gas pumps and i will continue to.

I am married with 3 kids and i do the job to the best of my ability, now if you think i am scared to get followed around all day you are wrong. I so use my handrails, i dont cheat, steal time etc. If i notice that i am being followed i will just call the cops because i fear for the safety of my packages that im dring and to let them know i see them.

Its amazing how much ot you can get when you do it by the book!

If i dont give them a reason to fire me i will have nothing to worry about. If the are going to fire me (again) they better make it good because i always have come back with more conviction.

Red I didnt mean it as a threat, I meant it more as this guy is a bad egg and hes letting you do the foot work for him. I dont really know, he could have been in cahoots with the physical thief (im leaning toward that because its a little suspect) or just a person with blind judgement.....

[705red]

Originally Posted by drewed

Red I didnt mean it as a threat, I meant it more as this guy is a bad egg and hes letting you do the foot work for him. I dont really know, he could have been in cahoots with the physical thief (im leaning toward that because its a little suspect) or just a person with blind judgement.....

Im going to have to disagree with you. I still live in a country were you are innocent until proven guilty and you should not have to be punished for something that you have not done.

I have no room for theives as many of you do. I can come to a conclusion on if someone is guilty by hearing the evidence and im pretty good at reading people. If someone is lying they will stumble during the investigation/explanation over their own two feet.

But if you think that i will just agree with the company and take its word on it you are greatly mistaken. Would a theif knowingly go to lp with the phone he just stole and ask for a property pass? This is what he did and this is the only evidence ups has. Hes in possesion of a stolen phone, which was a bone head move on his part.

Why didnt ups after busting the first two guys hold pcms saying there has been a rash of stolen cell phones encouraging people to come forward if they had bought a phone off of an employee(without using names).

Now if they had done this and he did not come forward than maybe he did know it was stolen, but when the guy pulls his sim card out of it why would he think it was stolen?

If ups would have done a complete investigation from the beginning than we would not be here, and this kid is suppose to suffer for it?

No one here has ever gone to a flea market, bought anything at a garage sale shopped on ebay and other sites like it. Sometimes people just have to buy something thats a good deal, now if he wouldnt have registered it ups would not know he had it!

[soberups]

Originally Posted by tieguy

company does not know if the guys story is accurate. company does not know if the guy was an innocent buyer of stolen goods (chuckle) or in cahoots with the other guy. The company does know the guy was in possession of a stolen phone. When it comes to thieves kill em all and let god sort them out into their respective bins.

If the employee knew the phone was hot, then why did he register it with LP and get a property pass for it? And why did LP issue one? Phones have serial numbers, if I bought a hot phone at UPS the last thing I would do would be to turn around and register the damn thing with the same people it had been stolen from!

What we have here quite obviously is an overzealous LP person who is just trying to justify his own paycheck.

[pemanager]

Red,

Am I mis-understanding? I thought the States Attorneys, or D.A.'s office, decided when to charge somebody and with what offense. I believe that UPS can file a complaint and present evidence and that is it, they can't force charges to be filed or dropped. If the attorney is pursuing the charges that would seem to indicate that there is evidence to substantiate the charge.

[drewed]

Originally Posted by soberups

If the employee knew the phone was hot, then why did he register it with LP and get a property pass for it? And why did LP issue one? Phones have serial numbers, if I bought a hot phone at UPS the last thing I would do would be to turn around and register the damn thing with the same people it had been stolen from!

What we have here quite obviously is an overzealous LP person who is just trying to justify his own paycheck.

Or just a naive employee.....

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Originally Posted by raceanoncr

Cmon, Tie, cut us some slack! Did this guy know this phone was stolen? Maybe, maybe not! You ever been approached by some slack-jawed indigents in the parking lot looking for a quick sell? I have. Before this parking lot was secured (?), we had all kinds roaming through (hard to imagine because UPS always builds in such high-security places! sarcasm intended). If he did know it was stolen, was it stolen from UPS? Did he ask? Geez, whiz, I don't know if I woulda thot of that! You mean you ain't never kited some snag you didn't know the origins or destinations of? If not, I applaud you for being more righteous than me.

I, for one, was not siding with a thief or buyer or, to you, both. I was merely thanking RED for standing up more than usual. We just don't have that here with our personel. I merely wish we did.

Here, I wish we could nab the thieves with ties on. That would be a ground-shaker, wouldn't it?

precisely, that's why UPS persues everything. they have the money and don't give a #*)$ ;/

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Originally Posted by 705red

Im going to have to disagree with you. I still live in a country were you are innocent until proven guilty and you should not have to be punished for something that you have not done.

I have no room for theives as many of you do. I can come to a conclusion on if someone is guilty by hearing the evidence and im pretty good at reading people. If someone is lying they will stumble during the investigation/explanation over their own two feet.

But if you think that i will just agree with the company and take its word on it you are greatly mistaken. Would a theif knowingly go to lp with the phone he just stole and ask for a property pass? This is what he did and this is the only evidence ups has. Hes in possesion of a stolen phone, which was a bone head move on his part.

Why didnt ups after busting the first two guys hold pcms saying there has been a rash of stolen cell phones encouraging people to come forward if they had bought a phone off of an employee(without using names).

Now if they had done this and he did not come forward than maybe he did know it was stolen, but when the guy pulls his sim card out of it why would he think it was stolen?

If ups would have done a complete investigation from the beginning than we would not be here, and this kid is suppose to suffer for it?

No one here has ever gone to a flea market, bought anything at a garage sale shopped on ebay and other sites like it. Sometimes people just have to buy something thats a good deal, now if he wouldnt have registered it ups would not know he had it!

I have to disagree with you here, in principal. Because you are "not guilty until proven" does not mean you aren't guilty.

He was on UPS property buying a stolen cell phone from someone who was fired 3 weeks prior for stealing.

Bottom line: a 7 year bulk train driver didn't know it was stolen. Impossible.

I'm sure the bulk train driver knew this person, or these people , that were [b]on UPS property[b] while having been discharged 3 weeks prior ( that sounds suspicious from an unbiased point of view) and selling cell phones on that very private property?


Surely, I couldn't prove it, and wouldn't want to be UPSs gang trying to prove he recieved stolen goods knowingly. They will persue it to the end though, and take whatever last penny they can from this guy, right or wrong.