Question about Article22 Job?

Brown Guy · 10-10-2008, 07:57 PM

I have a question about seniority? I am a full time package driver with 4 years of seniority, nothing in UPS years! Bid is coming in February. Can a Article 22 fulltime inside employee who is a carwasher/preloader with more seniority than me, bid a route ahead of me at bid time? I am getting different answers from different people. The contract does not state anything about this, that I read. If anybody knows the answer it would be appreciated!

drewed · 10-10-2008, 08:03 PM

What did your BA say?

cachsux · 10-10-2008, 08:05 PM

I would say no but even if they did go to package they would be junior to you in that division.

drewed · 10-10-2008, 08:10 PM

I agree with Cache. Bc they would have a 30 day probation for their 22.3 which would be their seniority date then they would have a 30 day probation for driver which would be a new seniority date which would be behind yours

dilligaf · 10-10-2008, 09:19 PM

I agree w/ Cach and Drew. 22.3 and Pkg car has 2 seperate seniortiy lists. If a 22.3 bids into pkg they should be at the bottom of the new seniority list.

IDoLessWorkThanMost · 10-10-2008, 09:33 PM

Not in New England. (this is my understanding)

Full-time is full-time, you keep your FT seniority date no matter what you bid (package, feeder, 22.3 , FT preload, hub hub etc...)

big_arrow_up · 10-10-2008, 09:56 PM

Here its all about classification seniority. An article 22.3 person would be behind this particular driver in seniority if they move to package regardless of their company seniority date. The article 22.3 guy would be the low man on the list. Here anyway.

Baba gounj · 10-10-2008, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDoLessWorkThanMost

Not in New England. (this is my understanding)

Full-time is full-time, you keep your FT seniority date no matter what you bid (package, feeder, 22.3 , FT preload, hub hub etc...)

you're right.

IDoLessWorkThanMost · 10-10-2008, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big_arrow_up

Here its all about classification seniority. An article 22.3 person would be behind this particular driver in seniority if they move to package regardless of their company seniority date. The article 22.3 guy would be the low man on the list. Here anyway.

What about if that 22.3 already held a F/T job with driving duties previously?

gandydancer · 10-10-2008, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big_arrow_up

Here its all about classification seniority. An article 22.3 person would be behind this particular driver in seniority if they move to package regardless of their company seniority date. The article 22.3 guy would be the low man on the list. Here anyway.

Company seniority is not relevant to the issue. The question is whether there is more than one classification seniority list for full timers in a single building. E.g., when considering bidding for feeder routes do you consider all the feeder-qualified drivers on the single full-time seniority list or is there a separate, not subset, feeder driver list? In NorCal there is a MOE reading, "5. Article 22.3 employees shall be included and made a part of the single full time seniority list in each building where they are located for lay off, bidding purposes..." I can't guarantee that it's interpreted to mean what it says, but it says what it says.

tritese · 10-11-2008, 02:16 AM

We have a full time seniority list and then we have classification lists. If I go to package from a 22.3 then I would be on the bottom of the list. Likewise if a package guy comes to a 22.3 job then he goes to the bottom of that list.

Brown Guy · 10-11-2008, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDoLessWorkThanMost

What about if that 22.3 already held a F/T job with driving duties previously?

That is different, if you were once on the F/T driving list before than u should be allowed back. But not if u were never on the list to begin with!

Brown Guy · 10-11-2008, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDoLessWorkThanMost

Not in New England. (this is my understanding)

Full-time is full-time, you keep your FT seniority date no matter what you bid (package, feeder, 22.3 , FT preload, hub hub etc...)

I agree with you that F/T is F/T, but we have bid every 2 years. F/T drivers were never allowed to Bid Article 22 jobs away for the person that bid the job when it was created. Why should they be allowed to Bid a Driver job away from a driver?

big_arrow_up · 10-11-2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDoLessWorkThanMost

What about if that 22.3 already held a F/T job with driving duties previously?

Here it wouldn't matter. Once you move out of a classification and then later move back into the same job you are considered the newbie on the seniority list. Thats how it was explaned to us anyway.

IDoLessWorkThanMost · 10-11-2008, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brown Guy

That is different, if you were once on the F/T driving list before than u should be allowed back. But not if u were never on the list to begin with!

Quote:

Originally Posted by big_arrow_up

Here it wouldn't matter. Once you move out of a classification and then later move back into the same job you are considered the newbie on the seniority list. Thats how it was explaned to us anyway.

So many different answers on this topic. What a mess! Thank you though.

IDoLessWorkThanMost · 10-11-2008, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brown Guy

I agree with you that F/T is F/T, but we have bid every 2 years. F/T drivers were never allowed to Bid Article 22 jobs away for the person that bid the job when it was created. Why should they be allowed to Bid a Driver job away from a driver?

In your region maybe. I support the opposite, if you have more full-time seniority , you shuold be able to bump anyone out of any job granted you are qualified to perform the job.
If I started in the region you work, and born 'n bred that way, I'd probably agree with you.

MR_Vengeance · 10-11-2008, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brown Guy

I have a question about seniority? I am a full time package driver with 4 years of seniority, nothing in UPS years! Bid is coming in February. Can a Article 22 fulltime inside employee who is a carwasher/preloader with more seniority than me, bid a route ahead of me at bid time? I am getting different answers from different people. The contract does not state anything about this, that I read. If anybody knows the answer it would be appreciated!

it depend on your local rules and regulations. where i am, full time is FT where you can bid into anything by your FT seniority. some other area might do this by classification.

Nitelite · 10-12-2008, 12:31 AM

Like someone else said, here in New England a 22.3 (driver or non-driver, doesn't matter) could bid a driver route ahead of another driver with less FT seniority. Just like a driver could bid a 22.3 position if they have more seniority.

BigBrownSanta · 10-12-2008, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brown Guy

I have a question about seniority? I am a full time package driver with 4 years of seniority, nothing in UPS years! Bid is coming in February. Can a Article 22 fulltime inside employee who is a carwasher/preloader with more seniority than me, bid a route ahead of me at bid time? I am getting different answers from different people. The contract does not state anything about this, that I read. If anybody knows the answer it would be appreciated!

Where I am, the upcoming February rebidding of routes is only done by center. The 22.3'er would not be allowed to bid a driver job. The only way a 22.3'er can become a driver is to sign the bid sheet for driver. They also move to the bottom of the seniority list in the center they are assigned to even if they had 20 years previously as a driver.

Brown Guy · 10-15-2008, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBrownSanta

Where I am, the upcoming February rebidding of routes is only done by center. The 22.3'er would not be allowed to bid a driver job. The only way a 22.3'er can become a driver is to sign the bid sheet for driver. They also move to the bottom of the seniority list in the center they are assigned to even if they had 20 years previously as a driver.

That is the way it should be, or I f they can bid our jobs we should be allowed to bid theres.... Which is not the case as of yet, still fighting it!!!

tritese · 10-18-2008, 05:48 AM

We can only bid out of classification if there is a job opening. I can't just say well I have been full time longer than this person and I want his job. I have to wait for a job to be vacated and then I would go to the bottom of the list if I change classification. It doesn't matter if I have done that job before or not.

BigBrownSanta · 10-18-2008, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tritese

We can only bid out of classification if there is a job opening. I can't just say well I have been full time longer than this person and I want his job. I have to wait for a job to be vacated and then I would go to the bottom of the list if I change classification. It doesn't matter if I have done that job before or not.

Yeah, that's how it's done here. I don't agree with the loss of seniority though. We had a 20 year driver bid to a combo job. After a while they decided to bid back as a driver. When they came back they had lost all their seniority. They had to start all over again as a day 1 driver. That makes no sense to me. You have 20 years experience as a driver and it ends up not counting for anything. To me, that's just not the right way to treat an experienced driver.