Thinking of leaving UPS ?????

[FightingBack]

Originally Posted by stevetheupsguy

Sounds to me like you're already full time. You need a better steward or better yet, go over his head to your BA or higher if need be.

Calling 705, where are you, 705?

Obviously i feel like i am full time, and just about everyone that heres my circumstances agrees with me. My biggest issue is that the contract is not clear in this situation. In one section i can find info that supports my case. In a another section i can find info that hurts my case. When it comes right down to it, it does not spell out when a position needs to be considered full time.

This situation has existed for quite some time and i need to put a stop to it sooner rather then later. By keeping me at the tcd rate, it is saving Ups about $25,000 a year. I have been around long enough to know that i am going to have to force the issue with them, in order to get them to honor the contract. Best case scenario, i prove that i have been right all along, and get added to the list (hopefully with 3 years of back pay). Worse case scenario, i am in the same mess i have been for the past 3 1/2 years. Not much to loose.

I appreciate everyones help so far.

[stringerman85]

Originally Posted by FightingBack

Not much to loose.

Lose

[Old International]

I have found that at UPS, all good things come to those who wait. I waited 18 years before I could go into feeders, and then had to go though 3.5 years of coverage work in feeders before I made the jump to full time.
Was it worth the wait? You betcha! Now I am where I want to be, and only have to make 13.5 years to retire.

[evilleace]

I think if you are worried about layoff look for other work in case that happens. If you are not worried don't look but UPS is a good company and $22 an hr. is GOOD money plus the benefits and in this economy that is hard to find and will soon be impossible so I think you should stay but if you are truly unhappy then leave there is no job worth being unhappy for.

[satellitedriver]

Originally Posted by upsmike69

Thanks for the positive and helpfull responses of some of you. All the others can "eat ". Good thing there are blogs so you can talk 1000's of miles away. Funny thing is if you knew me, you wouldnt look at me twice the wrong way. Go back home ******************
Anyway, are there any of you who havent passed your progression and the company really has no legit reason as to why ??? Lets hear it..

Define;
"look at me the wrong way".
One look at your post was enough for me.

[oakcreekteamie]

I second those emotions......Remember to dry off the shopping cart and stand my fries up in the bag.[/quote]


Haha. I see rep points for that my good man!

[sortaisle]

I am completely unclear as to why you feel you should be within progression as a utility driver. I just got my contract yesterday, so I will look, but methinks that you are being paid correctly and there isn't really any recourse other than getting paid all of the OT that your getting. I've been in your shoes. 60 hours and 6 days. I do what I have to for my wife and kids. I did that for almost 3 years. I've never even heard of progression starting as utility driver except if your an air driver. Top scale air takes 6 months progression from full time. I'll look into it though. I would say that you would be foolish to leave the beni's and the 22 bucks an hour. Won't find that anywhere else unless you have other prospects. My advice...stick it out and take some time off. You don't have to utility driver everyday. They can't make you and they have to call utility drivers by seniority anyway. If you can cover your tats, then I would do it if they make you. Wether your tatted or not doesn't matter to most people if your pleasant. Good Luck.

[hdkappler]

Originally Posted by 1989

But it may take 10-15 years in the military to make the same money as 3 year driver.

[hdkappler]

way the econmy is today the armendforces.i was in the navy 4 years,but times are different today.you sighn up 4years.don't have to worry about layoffs.free travel europe asia all over the world.i would of stayed in i would of been retired 20 years already.instead of 5years.don't have to pay union dues.you don't have a union to back you either.

[FightingBack]

I agree that utility drivers should not be in progression. My point is that if they were handling this on the up and up, they would have put me on the full time list several years ago (thus putting me in progression). Technically i am classified as a t.c.d. They have abused the use of the t.c.d. in the contract. As far as i can find there is no stipulation in the contract that says when a person must be moved from tcd to full time status, such as the number or reports, or the number of hours worked over a 6 month period. I am going to easily have over 200 reports as a driver this year. About the most a full time driver can have (depending on vacation time and when holidays fall) is some where in the 225-235 range.

I have been doing full time work for the past 18 months straight. Its not like i am just running routes at peak or during vacation times in the summer, they are using me year round. If that was the case i would totally understand it, and i would have no issues with it. Ups will not switch me to the full time list because ever year they can keep me listed as a t.c.d is another year they can keep me off of driver top rate ( saving them at least $25,000 a year).

All i know is that i am driving everyday (oct has been a little slow due to the economy). I bid my all of my time off on the drivers list, yet still receive my 20 hour preload pay check for my vacations, and 4 hours for my holidays. I gain an extra week of vacation time next year, and to be honest i don't want it if its going to be a 20 hour preload check. A week off with 35% pay isn't a vacation, its more like a suspension.

If and when they decided to put me on the full time list why should i have to go through progression?? Its not like i am going to be stumbling around out there like some rookie (which is pretty much the reason for progression in the first place) They have strung me along under the ploy of a t.c.d. for well over 3 years, i would like to think i have already served my time.

[stevetheupsguy]

Originally Posted by FightingBack

I agree that utility drivers should not be in progression. My point is that if they were handling this on the up and up, they would have put me on the full time list several years ago (thus putting me in progression). Technically i am classified as a t.c.d. They have abused the use of the t.c.d. in the contract. As far as i can find there is no stipulation in the contract that says when a person must be moved from tcd to full time status, such as the number or reports, or the number of hours worked over a 6 month period. I am going to easily have over 200 reports as a driver this year. About the most a full time driver can have (depending on vacation time and when holidays fall) is some where in the 225-235 range.

I have been doing full time work for the past 18 months straight. Its not like i am just running routes at peak or during vacation times in the summer, they are using me year round. If that was the case i would totally understand it, and i would have no issues with it. Ups will not switch me to the full time list because ever year they can keep me listed as a t.c.d is another year they can keep me off of driver top rate ( saving them at least $25,000 a year).

All i know is that i am driving everyday (oct has been a little slow due to the economy). I bid my all of my time off on the drivers list, yet still receive my 20 hour preload pay check for my vacations, and 4 hours for my holidays. I gain an extra week of vacation time next year, and to be honest i don't want it if its going to be a 20 hour preload check. A week off with 35% pay isn't a vacation, its more like a suspension.

If and when they decided to put me on the full time list why should i have to go through progression?? Its not like i am going to be stumbling around out there like some rookie (which is pretty much the reason for progression in the first place) They have strung me along under the ploy of a t.c.d. for well over 3 years, i would like to think i have already served my time.

Understood. Let's hold up one sec and figure out who we are helping here. Mike hasn't chimed in since his last post about gender/masculinity, so I assume we're all posting to FightingBack, now. This being the case, I hear where ya coming from.

Are you the next guy in line to go driving? If you are, then I would start hounding the steward/BA/union and tell them your story. It's obvious that there is a full time position that's not being filled, and you are being used at a lower payrate. Problem with telling them that you won't do it anymore is, someone else will step in to fill the void. So speak up for yourself and call it what it is, a full time position.

[upsmike69]

Fighting back.. we are in the same boat... The same thing happens with me. I ve read your posts and all your concerns are the same as mine.. It sucks that this is happening with us. Not like were "New" or anything.. Ill keep you posted as to what i find out in the future about this issue, but as you can tell im just as pissed as you.

[cachsux]

And the fact voting against the banning of gay marriage affects his masculinity how?

[FightingBack]

Originally Posted by stevetheupsguy

Understood. Let's hold up one sec and figure out who we are helping here. Mike hasn't chimed in since his last post about gender/masculinity, so I assume we're all posting to FightingBack, now. This being the case, I hear where ya coming from.

Are you the next guy in line to go driving? If you are, then I would start hounding the steward/BA/union and tell them your story. It's obvious that there is a full time position that's not being filled, and you are being used at a lower payrate. Problem with telling them that you won't do it anymore is, someone else will step in to fill the void. So speak up for yourself and call it what it is, a full time position.

I am the next guy in line to go driving. We have a driver that is going to retire late next spring. By rights they should put me on then, but with the direction the economy is heading i am sure that its going to be a great reason for them not to put me on the full time list. The union has told me i just have to be patient, and thats all i can get out of them. Thats why i am searching for advise on here.

[FightingBack]

Originally Posted by upsmike69

Fighting back.. we are in the same boat... The same thing happens with me. I ve read your posts and all your concerns are the same as mine.. It sucks that this is happening with us. Not like were "New" or anything.. Ill keep you posted as to what i find out in the future about this issue, but as you can tell im just as pissed as you.

I think this is a much more widespread problem, that anyone realizes. In reality we are going through much more then 3 years progression. In my case its going to be close to 7 or 8. Not to mention if i go and have a accident tomorrow, will be disqualified from driving even though i have been doing so without incident for nearly 4 years. I would just like a little additional job security, should anything happen especially with the snow season arriving in another few weeks.

[stevetheupsguy]

Originally Posted by FightingBack

I am the next guy in line to go driving. We have a driver that is going to retire late next spring. By rights they should put me on then, but with the direction the economy is heading i am sure that its going to be a great reason for them not to put me on the full time list. The union has told me i just have to be patient, and thats all i can get out of them. Thats why i am searching for advise on here.

Next in line is just that, FB. Don't assume that because of any other circumstance, you'll not go driving. Just wait and see. Next in line is one of the best places to be. Sort of like being a senior in High School, you get all the privileges. When you go driving, there's no turning back. You'll have to report for that driving position everyday.

Now I'm not trying to make driving a downer, it's definitely not that. I'm just trying to give you some perspective. Patience is key here. Before you know it, you'll be on the road, making the dough. Take it one day at a time. I think that you'll enjoy life more, this way. jmho

[FightingBack]

Originally Posted by stevetheupsguy

Next in line is just that, FB. Don't assume that because of any other circumstance, you'll not go driving. Just wait and see. Next in line is one of the best places to be. Sort of like being a senior in High School, you get all the privileges. When you go driving, there's no turning back. You'll have to report for that driving position everyday.

Now I'm not trying to make driving a downer, it's definitely not that. I'm just trying to give you some perspective. Patience is key here. Before you know it, you'll be on the road, making the dough. Take it one day at a time. I think that you'll enjoy life more, this way. jmho

Thats just it though. I am driving everyday as it is. Its not like i am going to work more next year (compared to what i have worked the past 18 months), and they will say since you have been working so often, we are now putting you on full time. The logic Ups is using on this one does not add up. They have me cornered and they know it.

[PAUPSER]

Just my opinion, but I would stay and stick it out for a while! The economy sucks right now and the chances of you finding a job at your current rate is slim to none. Just be patience for a while and see what happens then just drastically quit. However, if you truly are that unhappy and do quit I wish you the best of luck!~

[stevetheupsguy]

I don't think FB is really thinking of quitting. He's just pissed that it's taking so long to actually be full time and stop just acting like one.

[longlunchguy]

Mike and Fightn' How many days have you driven this year? I believe you can find language in the new contract that states if a cover driver has more than 200 full time reports, the company is required to add a permanant full time driver. Find out from your BA. Then, file a greivance and force the company to honor the contract and fill the spot. That doesn't mean after Christmas you won't get bumped, but you will be classified as full time. Remember, the greivance isn't personal. Don't get into a pissin contest with them. You just want a ruling based on the contract. Best of luck. And Mike.....quitting is a personal choice. UPS isn't the job for everyone.

[705red]

Look you have several choices, stick it out and and earn money as a ptimer while you wait to go ftime, or go back to school for 4 years to come out and work in a field that probably wont pay you what you will make here.

Each individual has to do what is right for themselves, i worked 2 and 3 jobs for 5 years as a ptimer to get here today, and even worked a ptime job when i went ftime for the first 2 years to make up for my pay difference. Now i have just 1 job for more hours than i did when i wokrd several.

Do what you must!

[FightingBack]

Originally Posted by longlunchguy

Mike and Fightn' How many days have you driven this year? I believe you can find language in the new contract that states if a cover driver has more than 200 full time reports, the company is required to add a permanant full time driver. Find out from your BA. Then, file a greivance and force the company to honor the contract and fill the spot. That doesn't mean after Christmas you won't get bumped, but you will be classified as full time. Remember, the greivance isn't personal. Don't get into a pissin contest with them. You just want a ruling based on the contract. Best of luck. And Mike.....quitting is a personal choice. UPS isn't the job for everyone.

The full time classification is what i am seeking the most. It will give me a vacation and holiday pay at the rate/hours i work at. Not to mention it would start the progression process.

As far as reports as a full time driver go,i believe i am roughly around 186 for the year. So even if my numbers are off by a day or two i am easily going to break the 200 mark, if we are able to count november and december (not sure if the peak free period would come into play on this). I don't think think it is possible to hit 200 reports without counting november and december. Any idea where the 200 reports can be found? I have looked over the both the old and new contract books and i have yet to find much to help the mess of situation that i have. Thanks for the help.

[BLACKBOX]

You might want to stick around if you feel you are really "next-in-line". When this election is over and things hopefully get back to normal you'd want to be there when the economy turns around. You will not be in this position if you bail and hook up with another company.