DHL Out on Dec 10th?

[moreluck]

"drove my Chevy to the levy...hum, hum ,hum."

[CBUK]

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

I knew Buddy Holley. Buddy Holley was a friend of mine. Mr. DHL Guy, you are no Buddy Holley.

You knew Buddy Holley? The same one that died in a plane crash almost 50 years ago?

[scratch]

Originally Posted by hangin455

I passed By an Office Depot yesterday. They posted on the drop box that today (Nov 21) would be the last day that the box would be picked up. Wonder if there's any effort being made to place our boxes in the Office Depot stores?

Where I am, Office Depot ships with UPS and Office Max uses DHL. I shop at Office Depot because of this. So drivers with an Office Max should get an easy sales lead there.

[LiL"Comet"]

Originally Posted by hangin455

I passed By an Office Depot yesterday. They posted on the drop box that today (Nov 21) would be the last day that the box would be picked up. Wonder if there's any effort being made to place our boxes in the Office Depot stores?

I seen this too posted this weekend at Office Depot sign saying that there letter box will no longer be serviced after 11/21/08 sorry for the inconvenience. I love the idea of coarse for us to get the business but at the same time I hate it for those who will lose there jobs.

I did send an email to a couple people about seeing the sign there to try find out what location to contact to try to get in the door.

[brownIEman]

Originally Posted by 705red

Heres an idea, while we are delivering and picking up from our current customers and doing everthing within our powers to keep them, you should get out of the office and find that dhl work and stop riding the drivers coat tails for your paycheck!!!!

not to worry red. In my district ALL management folks are pounding the streets looking for DHL conversions... In one building I was in this week, the management team has turned in more leads than the 80 drivers in one of the centers. I am mostly a door to door salesman these days. Leads are also on our yearly performance evaluations, we have a minimum number of producing leads we must hit each year or we get zippo for that element.

I have heard second hand that we are beating them to initial contact with most of the former DHL customers. Hopefully, most of the former DHL work will come to us, I would assume you would prefer that to it going to a non union shop like FedEx?

[705red]

Originally Posted by brownIEman

not to worry red. In my district ALL management folks are pounding the streets looking for DHL conversions... In one building I was in this week, the management team has turned in more leads than the 80 drivers in one of the centers. I am mostly a door to door salesman these days. Leads are also on our yearly performance evaluations, we have a minimum number of producing leads we must hit each year or we get zippo for that element.


I'm pretty sure those 80 drivers are presently a little busy delivering and picking up packages at this time. And if you are speaking on my 80 driver center, stop by and say high to me. Also i have found myself turning in 4 sales leads this week, more leads would get turned in if alot of our drivers were not burned in the past on producing leads! The dhl drivers here are giving us their pick up info because they want to see the packages stay with a union carrier. Kudos to them!



I have heard second hand that we are beating them to initial contact with most of the former DHL customers. Hopefully, most of the former DHL work will come to us, I would assume you would prefer that to it going to a non union shop like FedEx?

Absolutely i would like to see that work come here rather than fedex. I also would like to see bd reps treat drivers with respect and not try to slam one when he makes a post. Tiegirl took a dig at upstate, and im not a big fan of the guy, but hes a driver and i will take shots at management people in defense of any of my brothers and sisters on here.

I also have a problem with ups hiring on dhl sales force people when we have employees on lay off that were here before these guys. This is not a time to hire more management, this is a time to get all the hourlies out there. And after peak we will see more layoffs of employees that have bleed brown for years and these new sales reps will be drawing a check?

Thats not how you treat someone you have hired and call an employee!

[But Benefits Are Great!]

"...I also have a problem with ups hiring on dhl sales force people when we have employees on lay off that were here before these guys. This is not a time to hire more management, this is a time to get all the hourlies out there..."

See, now, we can't do that. Too much common sense.

[brownIEman]

Originally Posted by 705red

I'm pretty sure those 80 drivers are presently a little busy delivering and picking up packages at this time. And if you are speaking on my 80 driver center, stop by and say high to me. Also i have found myself turning in 4 sales leads this week, more leads would get turned in if alot of our drivers were not burned in the past on producing leads! The dhl drivers here are giving us their pick up info because they want to see the packages stay with a union carrier. Kudos to them!

Of course they are busy delivering and picking up (although not as busy as they should be this time of year, we still have drivers laid off) and they are also getting sales leads that are netting them gift cards and helping to bring the laid off drivers back to work. I never at any time meant to disparage their efforts. This was not a dig at the drivers in any way, I used the example to show that here management are out working to get those DHL packages and not just sitting in offices "riding drivers coat tails to a pay check" as you put it.

Sales leads often lead to more volume, which leads to more teamsters working. When they do, they should also lead to the first person putting the lead in getting card balance rewards. I would suggest the you advise your brothers not to let themselves be burned on leads any more than you would let them be burned by shorted time cards or sups working. Takes less than a minute to get onto UPSERS clicking the Company tab, Growth, View Sales Leads - You can see if a lead was actually opened in the system and what its status is.

Originally Posted by 705red

Absolutely i would like to see that work come here rather than fedex. I also would like to see bd reps treat drivers with respect and not try to slam one when he makes a post. Tiegirl took a dig at upstate, and im not a big fan of the guy, but hes a driver and i will take shots at management people in defense of any of my brothers and sisters on here.

I am not sure she really was taking a dig at upstate. If she was, I would consider her out of line. Encouraging a driver to keep picking up packages would by itself be no more a dig than telling an AE to keep selling accounts. If tiegirl and upstate have a history on this board I am not aware of it, so, I may be missing something. So I would be curious if upstate saw tiegirl's post as a dig. If so, I agree with you on this. If not, I would have to ask you to consider whether you were just overly eager to defend a brother driver, or just really anxious for any chance to "take a shot" at a member of management.

Originally Posted by 705red

I also have a problem with ups hiring on dhl sales force people when we have employees on lay off that were here before these guys. This is not a time to hire more management, this is a time to get all the hourlies out there. And after peak we will see more layoffs of employees that have bleed brown for years and these new sales reps will be drawing a check?

Thats not how you treat someone you have hired and call an employee!

I was not aware we were hiring many DHL sales people, but I can see the logic in it. They know the customers, accounts, and hopefully can bring much of that volume. As much as you or I may not like it, the fact of the matter is there is a correlation between the size of a sales force and the number of accounts sold. Obviously there is a point of diminishing returns, so one needs to be smart about it. The idea is to get the sales people working first, have them bring in the volume, then get the hourlies out there moving the volume. Setting up the people and infrastructure first and then trying to get the volume into the system next is sorta the business model DHL used to begin with. Did not really work out for them.

[coldworld]

Originally Posted by brownIEman

not to worry red. In my district ALL management folks are pounding the streets looking for DHL conversions... In one building I was in this week, the management team has turned in more leads than the 80 drivers in one of the centers. I am mostly a door to door salesman these days. Leads are also on our yearly performance evaluations, we have a minimum number of producing leads we must hit each year or we get zippo for that element.

I have heard second hand that we are beating them to initial contact with most of the former DHL customers. Hopefully, most of the former DHL work will come to us, I would assume you would prefer that to it going to a non union shop like FedEx?

Brown, that is good to hear. Wish more would actually ride with the drivers, having two walk into a business makes more of a statement. Does anyone know the projected percentage of dhl customers that are comming to ups? Something else,some of these customers are probably going to wait until the last possible second to switch over.

[UpstateNYUPSer]

Originally Posted by tiegirl

You are not serious are you? But if you are I can explain it to you. In the mean time just keep picking up those packages!!

If you had taken the time to read the thread you would have seen that I was replying to post #5 in which someone had posted for sale online 30 prepaid DHL overnight letters to anywhere in the 48 states for $200. I was simply doing the math.

May I suggest that you take a moment and think before you post.

[705red]

Originally Posted by brownIEman

Of course they are busy delivering and picking up (although not as busy as they should be this time of year, we still have drivers laid off) and they are also getting sales leads that are netting them gift cards and helping to bring the laid off drivers back to work. I never at any time meant to disparage their efforts. This was not a dig at the drivers in any way, I used the example to show that here management are out working to get those DHL packages and not just sitting in offices "riding drivers coat tails to a pay check" as you put it.


Your post was not a dig at the drivers, but i took tiegirls post as a dig and i responded as such.

Sales leads often lead to more volume, which leads to more teamsters working. When they do, they should also lead to the first person putting the lead in getting card balance rewards. I would suggest the you advise your brothers not to let themselves be burned on leads any more than you would let them be burned by shorted time cards or sups working. Takes less than a minute to get onto UPSERS clicking the Company tab, Growth, View Sales Leads - You can see if a lead was actually opened in the system and what its status is.

Absolutely i agree to a point on who should get the lead. I have one driver that has been working two customers for a year to switch all of their business over and when he did he was denied. Why? because someone in Wyoming turned in this lead for a customer in deer field. Even the customer has called and said that they switched because of my driver friend. He is thinking about filing the grievance, however he has never filed one and is a little hesitant and i believe that this is what ups is counting on.


I am not sure she really was taking a dig at upstate. If she was, I would consider her out of line. Encouraging a driver to keep picking up packages would by itself be no more a dig than telling an AE to keep selling accounts. If tiegirl and upstate have a history on this board I am not aware of it, so, I may be missing something. So I would be curious if upstate saw tiegirl's post as a dig. If so, I agree with you on this. If not, I would have to ask you to consider whether you were just overly eager to defend a brother driver, or just really anxious for any chance to "take a shot" at a member of management.

I take shots at everyone if they deserve it, hurly, management and even teamster brothers. And i will stick up for my brothers even while they might not. I took it her several posts as digs.

See unlike the drivers who get paid by the hour our sales force is salaried and works off of commision, and without the drivers assisting in growing the business they would have no commision.



I was not aware we were hiring many DHL sales people, but I can see the logic in it. They know the customers, accounts, and hopefully can bring much of that volume. As much as you or I may not like it, the fact of the matter is there is a correlation between the size of a sales force and the number of accounts sold. Obviously there is a point of diminishing returns, so one needs to be smart about it. The idea is to get the sales people working first, have them bring in the volume, then get the hourlies out there moving the volume. Setting up the people and infrastructure first and then trying to get the volume into the system next is sorta the business model DHL used to begin with. Did not really work out for them.

My 6 year old could have been a sales rep at dhl and done a great job! Dhl's selling point was price and if you cant walk in and switch an account over by under cutting us by 50% than you have no busiess in sales. Dhl didnt hire rocket scientists to sell their product!

In times of tough economy as we are in you should take care of the people that have been here, inteads of laying off 5 and 10 year employees and have them split shifting to get their 8 hours and in many cases at lower wages. So in short years of dedicated service means dick to this company while your hiring off the street sales reps!

[Mike Hawk]

Originally Posted by 705red

My 6 year old could have been a sales rep at dhl and done a great job! Dhl's selling point was price and if you cant walk in and switch an account over by under cutting us by 50% than you have no busiess in sales. Dhl didnt hire rocket scientists to sell their product!

You must admit, he has a valid point.

[But Benefits Are Great!]

My DHL lead can beat up YOUR DHL lead....na na na na na, na!

[Hoaxster]

Originally Posted by 705red

No one has ever been fired for not turning in a sales lead you *****!

No one has ever been fired for refusing to wipe either; both are appreciated though!

[hdkappler]

alright.maybe ups stock will go up.next maybe they can get ground volume from post office.

[rocket man]

D H L IS gonna be around for a long time. IT works this way dhl is split into 6 districts across the us right now now the are about 15 people that hold those contracts . dhl is going to 8 contractors (not 8 trucks}} (upstate nyer} . They] are gonna do international letters and light like they have always done . were gonna get the bulk and ground along with fed x.They are not gonna have as many vans but they will be out there .

[Bad Gas!]

Originally Posted by tiegirl

You are not serious are you? But if you are I can explain it to you. In the mean time just keep picking up those packages!!

You must be blond...not that anything is wrong with that!

[brownIEman]

Originally Posted by 705red

Absolutely i agree to a point on who should get the lead. I have one driver that has been working two customers for a year to switch all of their business over and when he did he was denied. Why? because someone in Wyoming turned in this lead for a customer in deer field. Even the customer has called and said that they switched because of my driver friend. He is thinking about filing the grievance, however he has never filed one and is a little hesitant and i believe that this is what ups is counting on.

That sucks for your friend. I wish there were an option in the system to take cases like that into account. But there is not. The system is based on who turns in the lead first. That is the way it works, and we have to deal with it, your friend is off base thinking about filing a grievance. (not sure what he would file under, what sales lead language is in the contract?)

Let me give you an analogy. Lets say I had two preloaders, both wanting to go driving. One of them is just a superstar, always on time and ready to go, always works safe and fast, totally organized and remembers addresses, has perfect spacial awareness. I know this guy would be just a fantastic driver. The other guy is just OK, but has 6 months more seniority. So, I go to you as the steward and say, "listen, my superstar here has really busted his but and shown he is deserving, so I am going to give him the shot at driving over the less motivated guy with more seniority, so don't start any grievance stuff". You and I both know you would tell me I was way off base, the rules don't work that way and I need to live with it. And you would be right.

Your friend should be proud of the win he helped bring about and satisfied in the knowledge it will help protect the jobs of himself and his brothers and sisters. He was however no more "burned" by the sales lead program than the superstar preloader in my example was burned by the contract in not getting a shot at driving.

Originally Posted by 705red

My 6 year old could have been a sales rep at dhl and done a great job! Dhl's selling point was price and if you cant walk in and switch an account over by under cutting us by 50% than you have no busiess in sales. Dhl didnt hire rocket scientists to sell their product!

In times of tough economy as we are in you should take care of the people that have been here, inteads of laying off 5 and 10 year employees and have them split shifting to get their 8 hours and in many cases at lower wages. So in short years of dedicated service means dick to this company while your hiring off the street sales reps!

In times of a tough economy, unfortunately, you give work to the people who have been there for whom you actually HAVE work that can on some level generate or support the generation of revenue. If you abandon that principle because it hurts to see people struggling under lay offs, you risk the survival of the company and every one's jobs.

I am left to wonder if you are not making a mountain of a mole hill on the DHL sales guys thing. I have not heard of any being hired in my district, do you have any solid numbers on how many have been hired in Illinois?

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by brownIEman

That sucks for your friend. I wish there were an option in the system to take cases like that into account. But there is not.

Also unfortunate is the fact that without any options that would help in this case the company has pretty much assured that this driver will never even ask another person for a sales lead.

[BigBrownSanta]

Just imagine if ups were to pay a commission for each pickup piece. I betcha more sales leads would be turned in. But on the negative side, I could see ups not paying and screwing up that program also.

[brownIEman]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

Also unfortunate is the fact that without any options that would help in this case the company has pretty much assured that this driver will never even ask another person for a sales lead.

And the superstar preloader in my example might just stop putting forth the effort he was in the past, take his name off the driving list, and look for employment elsewhere.

In both cases, they would be guilty of a miss-placed crappy attitude.

[brownIEman]

Originally Posted by BigBrownSanta

Just imagine if ups were to pay a commission for each pickup piece. I betcha more sales leads would be turned in. But on the negative side, I could see ups not paying and screwing up that program also.

That is sorta what the sales lead program is. Once the account is sold, you get rewards or comissions, based on the volume picked up. As to a pure commission per picked up piece, that is what FedEx Ground does, but they are currently involved in a massive class action lawsuit, so I am not sure that would be a good way to go. I am also positive the Union would have absolutely none of it.

Look, the sales lead program is not perfect, but there are rules in effect in it for a reason. Just like the contract demands opportunities by seniority only to avoid favoritism and crony-ism, and take out the chaotic effect of trying to figure out who is more deserving, the rules in the sales lead program likewise prevent capriciousness. Look, say I was a DM, and said to Red and his pal "Yep, I am going to override this rule and give the lead awards to you, as you said you have been working with this guy for two years and someone in the local office called and said it was due to your efforts that the company switched." Now, I have made Red and his buddy happy, and screwed the guy in Wyoming. Now, seems this company is regional at least, if not national. So first off, how do I know that the guy in Wyoming was not working hard for two years and did not have just as much to do with the company deciding to switch? How do I know that this local guy in Red's area is really the decider for the companies shipping decisions? It may be from his perspective, Red's buddy was the main reason they switched. What that could really mean though, is that Red's friend was the main factor in this one guy voting to switch, but he may not be the only, nor the major deciding vote.

The funny thing to me, is that back in the day drivers would bring in informal leads to their management who would funnel them to BD. This was done solely for the purpose of getting packages out of non-union competitors hands and getting that work into our company. So the company sets up a system to reward drivers for doing what they often used to do for the good of us all, and many start to whine and complain when they feel they did not get a big enough piece of the hand out.

[BigBrownSanta]

First, let me say, I don't expect ups to pay a commission on pickup pieces. But for the sake of this thread, I'll respond.

Originally Posted by brownIEman

That is sorta what the sales lead program is. Once the account is sold, you get rewards or comissions, based on the volume picked up. As to a pure commission per picked up piece, that is what FedEx Ground does, but they are currently involved in a massive class action lawsuit, so I am not sure that would be a good way to go. I am also positive the Union would have absolutely none of it.

What Fedex Ground does and what I mentioned is not similiar in any way. Fedex Ground pays a flat rate per piece and that's it. That's their complete paycheck. What I mentioned would be more like a bonus on top of your hourly pay. The union doesn't recognize the bonus program we have now. A bonus program based on pickup pieces would motivate some drivers to try to be entrepreneurial and increase volume on their area, basically like having the ability to give themselves a payraise. Not to mention it would be alot more honest than the current bonus program.

Originally Posted by brownIEman

Look, the sales lead program is not perfect, but there are rules in effect in it for a reason. Just like the contract demands opportunities by seniority only to avoid favoritism and crony-ism, and take out the chaotic effect of trying to figure out who is more deserving, the rules in the sales lead program likewise prevent capriciousness. Look, say I was a DM, and said to Red and his pal "Yep, I am going to override this rule and give the lead awards to you, as you said you have been working with this guy for two years and someone in the local office called and said it was due to your efforts that the company switched." Now, I have made Red and his buddy happy, and screwed the guy in Wyoming. Now, seems this company is regional at least, if not national. So first off, how do I know that the guy in Wyoming was not working hard for two years and did not have just as much to do with the company deciding to switch? How do I know that this local guy in Red's area is really the decider for the companies shipping decisions? It may be from his perspective, Red's buddy was the main reason they switched. What that could really mean though, is that Red's friend was the main factor in this one guy voting to switch, but he may not be the only, nor the major deciding vote.

This looks like an impediment to the sales lead program that maybe someone in an upper decision-making position may want to look at. Resolve this and maybe drivers will be more trusting of the process.

I can tell you from personal experience that the system is manipulatable (is that a word?) by the BD people. I had a BD person approach me at a pickup one day and during our discussion he asked me why I don't turn in sales leads. I basically told him that I didn't believe the system worked and that I wouldn't get the credit for the pickup. He told me to turn in a sales lead for a nation wide business he was working on and he would get me paid.

I thought about it for a week, but eventually turned in the sales lead. By then, the contract had already been signed. The first time, the lead was kicked back as already closed. The BD person went to bat and convinced someone to pay the sales lead by saying the company wouldn't have closed the contract if not for the high level of service I provided. His words, not mine. A couple of months later I get an American Express card with $300 on it.

In his effort to show me that the system worked, he showed me it was arbitrary.

Originally Posted by brownIEman

The funny thing to me, is that back in the day drivers would bring in informal leads to their management who would funnel them to BD. This was done solely for the purpose of getting packages out of non-union competitors hands and getting that work into our company. So the company sets up a system to reward drivers for doing what they often used to do for the good of us all, and many start to whine and complain when they feel they did not get a big enough piece of the hand out.

I don't have a problem with getting a "big enough piece of the hand out" as you put it. It's the fact of do I trust that what you are telling me is the truth. Did someone in Wyoming really turn in a sales lead first or is that the excuse you are using to not pay for the sales lead I turned in?

For me, it all boils down to trust. I know if I don't participate, I don't have to worry about being lied to.

[cachsux]

Originally Posted by brownIEman

The funny thing to me, is that back in the day drivers would bring in informal leads to their management who would funnel them to BD. This was done solely for the purpose of getting packages out of non-union competitors hands and getting that work into our company. So the company sets up a system to reward drivers for doing what they often used to do for the good of us all, and many start to whine and complain when they feel they did not get a big enough piece of the hand out.

Back in the day I had a customer who started out small out of his basement,moved up to a small office at the time I had him on my route. He came to me and pointed out that the folks at UPS wouldn`t give him the software to automate his shipping. He was told he was to small. Now at the time UPS was setting up accounts with computers,software,training,etc,the works. This guy,being in the computer and software business,was only asking for the software as he had everything else he needed. He even offered to pay for it. I complained to my mgr,he complained to UPS all the way up to Atlanta,but we were told that BD said he was to small. When I told him I was leaving to go to feeder he said then he then had no reason to stay with UPS out of loyalty to me. Fast forward 14 years,he now has a large distribution ctr in an industrial park and has trailer fulls of packages all going by FedEx. When UPS comes sniffing around from time to time he shows them the letters from UPS saying they couldn`t service him because he was to small. He has 8 figure business income,7 figure personal income. I know this because my wife handles his finances for his family. UPS lost this because someone in BD didn`t have the common sense to look past their nose and see this guys potential. He was the last company I ever turned any leads/development info on. If you want maybe I can put in a good word for you when we go to his Xmas party.

[UpstateNYUPSer]

Originally Posted by BigBrownSanta

...A bonus program based on pickup pieces would motivate some drivers to try to be entrepreneurial and increase volume on their area, basically like having the ability to give themselves a payraise.

In theory this sounds like a good idea and a motivational tool but it's fairness may be in question. Pickup volume and the number of pickup stops vary from area to area. We have one route in our center that has 60+ pickup stops while we have one that has 3. There are some pickup accounts that are serviced by two or more package car drivers or perhaps a pkg car and a feeder driver. There are some seasonal accounts that the center team will move from driver to driver to balance the dispatch. There are a number of variables which could make implementation of a bonus program difficult at best.