Dear Scott Davis

[tieguy]

Dear Scott,

While I'm sure the practice has been in place prior to your taking over as CEO of this company the time has come to end a negative trend that violates the rights of your employees to enjoy christmas. While we have days that are labeled "holidays" we continue to violate those days in effort to remain competitive and to provide a service that is superior to our competitors. I am asking you to make a decision to keep Christmas sacred. Once again our plans call to pick up air on christmas eve. We will then run air operations and feeders on christmas day in order to make a committment to our customers that violates our employees rights to spend christmas with their families. I am asking you to become the Ebeneezer Scrooge that discovers the joy of christmas. Say no to air pickups on christmas eve. Pass a mandate that the entire orginization must shut down on christmas day. Insist that our people spend christmas day with their families. Make this committment unconditional. Our employees have worked hard for you all year meeting and exceeding superior committments to the customers. Keep Christmas sacred. Please make this decision in favor of our employees over our customers for this one special day each year.

[trplnkl]

...........

[upsdude]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

...........

[bluehdmc]

I'm one of those people that disagrees, not necessarily to "keep our competitive edge", but for the reason that this country was founded on religous freedoms. (the pilgrims). To people of other faiths, Jewish, Muslim, Buddist, etc. Christmas is just another day, and an inconvienence because all the stores, etc. are closed.
I'm not trying to downplay the day, but when words like sacred are used, I start getting nervous. There are people of other faiths that work in my center and they've taken their holidays off, maybe a better solution would be to try to ask those that do not celebrate Christmas to volunteer to work to allow those that do celebrate the holiday to spend it with their families

[UpstateNYUPSer]

Excellent thread. I would take family over money any day and twice on Sunday.

On a somewhat related note, I can recall the arguments when states in New England began to repeal "Blue Laws", which were laws which dictated what days stores could be open. Traditionally stores would be closed on Sunday to allow familes to worship together. Of course, today little is sacred--KMart was even open on Thanksgiving--but perhaps a return to more traditional values is what this country needs.

[longlunchguy]

I, too, remember when stores were closed on sundays. In the early 1970s the store I worked at decided to open for limited hours on Sunday. They paid time and a half for that day. Now it seems Sunday is just another day. I'm not deeply religous, but I believe we should all slow down a little and enjoy family and some time away from the daily grind. Unfortunately, to quote John Lennon, Money changes everything.

[over9five]

Although technically I agree with Ties post, I think there are always people that will work holidays.

We had a sign up list for Thanksgiving Day, and there were names on it.

[JustTired]

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

but perhaps a return to more traditional values is what this country needs.

Oh boy! You've struck a nerve with me, now.

Just exactly when was it that we started losing those "traditional values"?

As a kid growing up in the 50s-60s, I look back and think how great it was. Ours was a most likely lower middle-class family. We had a roof over our heads and didn't seem to lack for much. Of course, we didn't have the latest and greatest when it came to possessions, but I think over all we did alright. Did my parents have a credit card? I doubt it early on. This would change in time.

Back then...eating at a restaraunt was a big deal and didn't happen that often. Most Sundays were spent at my grandparents with a big meal that to this day I miss most of all. If not the company....surely the food. After the meal, sitting on the front porch in the warm months watching the world go by seemed to be entertainment enough.

We, as kids, had no problem finding things to do during the schooless summer months. And the only reason you would even think of staying inside was if you were sick. I could go on and on just talking about this.

I guess my point is.......are we all better off today?

While I'm no longer in the "rat race", I would think the majority are so far in debt and so swept up in what they think it means to be happy.....that it leaves little time for the simple things that families will remember long after it has happened.

I think we need to step back several giant steps and reevaluate what's important and meaningful. It's not having the "latest and greatest" that will endure.....it's having the "nearest and dearest".

Not working Christmas day would be a start, I guess.

[But Benefits Are Great!]

Originally Posted by JustTired

Oh boy! You've struck a nerve with me, now.

Just exactly when was it that we started losing those "traditional values"?

As a kid growing up in the 50s-60s, I look back and think how great it was. Ours was a most likely lower middle-class family. We had a roof over our heads and didn't seem to lack for much. Of course, we didn't have the latest and greatest when it came to possessions, but I think over all we did alright. Did my parents have a credit card? I doubt it early on. This would change in time.

Back then...eating at a restaraunt was a big deal and didn't happen that often. Most Sundays were spent at my grandparents with a big meal that to this day I miss most of all. If not the company....surely the food. After the meal, sitting on the front porch in the warm months watching the world go by seemed to be entertainment enough.

We, as kids, had no problem finding things to do during the schooless summer months. And the only reason you would even think of staying inside was if you were sick. I could go on and on just talking about this.

I guess my point is.......are we all better off today?

While I'm no longer in the "rat race", I would think the majority are so far in debt and so swept up in what they think it means to be happy.....that it leaves little time for the simple things that families will remember long after it has happened.

I think we need to step back several giant steps and reevaluate what's important and meaningful. It's not having the "latest and greatest" that will endure.....it's having the "nearest and dearest".

Not working Christmas day would be a start, I guess.

Excellent - your statement "..We, as kids, had no problem finding things to do during the schooless summer months. And the only reason you would even think of staying inside was if you were sick...."

No X-Box, no cell-phones, and I never remember being bored.

I would venture a guess that people signing up for Christmas/Thanksgiving needed the $$$. I know I would take the work if I did not have other plans.

Times have changed - you won't get them back. Values have been eroding for a long time.

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by bluehdmc

I'm one of those people that disagrees, not necessarily to "keep our competitive edge", but for the reason that this country was founded on religous freedoms. (the pilgrims). To people of other faiths, Jewish, Muslim, Buddist, etc. Christmas is just another day, and an inconvienence because all the stores, etc. are closed.

I'm not trying to downplay the day, but when words like sacred are used, I start getting nervous. There are people of other faiths that work in my center and they've taken their holidays off, maybe a better solution would be to try to ask those that do not celebrate Christmas to volunteer to work to allow those that do celebrate the holiday to spend it with their families

Since roughly 78% of the US population is of Christian background which recognizes Christmas that pretty much would cover a vote if taken to keeping the holiday a work free day. Would you consider it fair to force people to work on a day they think to be sacred so (roughly) 22% of the people are not inconvenienced for one day a year?
Here there is a large hobby/craft store that because of the owners religious views is closed on Sundays, I have been "inconvenienced" by this but I sure don't expect them to make their employees work just for me.

Not wanting this to turn into a "religion" thread, I have said all I will say on that aspect.

Now the wording in the poll says "keep this day a special time for employees to relax and celebrate with their families", not sacred. So I will vote to keep this holiday as special as I can.

What worries me is that 4 people on this board have voted " I disagree its important we maintain our competitive edge.". If one day out of the year is going to make that much difference in UPS's competitiveness we all better be looking for another job starting today.

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by JustTired

Oh boy! You've struck a nerve with me, now.

Just exactly when was it that we started losing those "traditional values"?

As a kid growing up in the 50s-60s, I look back and think how great it was. Ours was a most likely lower middle-class family. We had a roof over our heads and didn't seem to lack for much. Of course, we didn't have the latest and greatest when it came to possessions, but I think over all we did alright. Did my parents have a credit card? I doubt it early on. This would change in time.

Back then...eating at a restaraunt was a big deal and didn't happen that often. Most Sundays were spent at my grandparents with a big meal that to this day I miss most of all. If not the company....surely the food. After the meal, sitting on the front porch in the warm months watching the world go by seemed to be entertainment enough.

We, as kids, had no problem finding things to do during the schooless summer months. And the only reason you would even think of staying inside was if you were sick. I could go on and on just talking about this.

I guess my point is.......are we all better off today?

While I'm no longer in the "rat race", I would think the majority are so far in debt and so swept up in what they think it means to be happy.....that it leaves little time for the simple things that families will remember long after it has happened.

I think we need to step back several giant steps and reevaluate what's important and meaningful. It's not having the "latest and greatest" that will endure.....it's having the "nearest and dearest".

Not working Christmas day would be a start, I guess.

Very good post, unfortunately I have no idea how to re-establish the good solid values that once were the norm and not the exception.

[But Benefits Are Great!]

I think the bottom line, at UPS at least, is this. You think UPS will make a big change to benefit employees?

[chev]

Originally Posted by bluehdmc

I'm one of those people that disagrees, not necessarily to "keep our competitive edge", but for the reason that this country was founded on religous freedoms. (the pilgrims). To people of other faiths, Jewish, Muslim, Buddist, etc. Christmas is just another day, and an inconvenience because all the stores, etc. are closed.
I'm not trying to downplay the day, but when words like sacred are used, I start getting nervous. There are people of other faiths that work in my center and they've taken their holidays off, maybe a better solution would be to try to ask those that do not celebrate Christmas to volunteer to work to allow those that do celebrate the holiday to spend it with their families

This country WAS founded on Christian principals they can stand to be "inconvenienced" for ONE damn day.
What will they take from us next? Arbor day?

[dilligaf]

I have to hand it to Tie again. Excellent post!

Even I am old enough to have been in on the tail end of JT's comments about kids going outside to play. I didn't have all stuff that is available these days. I remember during the summer when it was raining, building dams in the gutter and floating hand made boats down the 'river'.

As far as the excellent customer service that we provide, there will always be those that are not happy. No matter what we do to accomodate. The Mon after Thanksgiving I went in to pick up one of my daily p/u's. The lady at the desk was bitching because her ground envelope didn't get picked up on Fri. I tried to explain to her that it was a holiday and we only did air but all she wanted to do was argue. It quickly became apparent that there was nothing I was going to say that was going to make her happy. Some people just don't get it.

[LiL"Comet"]

Originally Posted by JustTired

Oh boy! You've struck a nerve with me, now.

Just exactly when was it that we started losing those "traditional values"?

As a kid growing up in the 50s-60s, I look back and think how great it was. Ours was a most likely lower middle-class family. We had a roof over our heads and didn't seem to lack for much. Of course, we didn't have the latest and greatest when it came to possessions, but I think over all we did alright. Did my parents have a credit card? I doubt it early on. This would change in time.

Back then...eating at a restaraunt was a big deal and didn't happen that often. Most Sundays were spent at my grandparents with a big meal that to this day I miss most of all. If not the company....surely the food. After the meal, sitting on the front porch in the warm months watching the world go by seemed to be entertainment enough.

We, as kids, had no problem finding things to do during the schooless summer months. And the only reason you would even think of staying inside was if you were sick. I could go on and on just talking about this.

I guess my point is.......are we all better off today?

While I'm no longer in the "rat race", I would think the majority are so far in debt and so swept up in what they think it means to be happy.....that it leaves little time for the simple things that families will remember long after it has happened.

I think we need to step back several giant steps and reevaluate what's important and meaningful. It's not having the "latest and greatest" that will endure.....it's having the "nearest and dearest".

Not working Christmas day would be a start, I guess.

Great Post!!! Sundays is a ritual with our family, lunch after church around 1:00pm with all the trimmings. Its great we always take time for anyone to share something before the meal for prayer for someone or whatever need be, then we ask thanks for our blessings and dig in. After every-one's finished get all the dishes cleaned up, the kids go outside to play with their cousins climbing trees, jumping on Paw Paws trlr (which is a no no) and just whatever they can get into. LOL There's always pecan pie, pineapple upside down cake or some kind of yummy desert but it never fails the kids are like clock work about the time we get everything cleaned up they want a cone of ice cream and to them it wouldn't be nanny's without ice cream.


In our culture today we are continuing to take all the sacredness out of everything we have built our history on IMHO. I feel like at every holiday there's no respect given to those who are the reason there is a holiday. The only thing kids like about a holiday these days is getting out of school to play the WII's not what the holiday is celebrating. Veteran's, Thanksgiving, and Christmas are days among others that time should be taken out for our family, friends, and pay our respects to those who the holiday celebrates. I believe some if not a lot of kids are not even taught the basic principals at home they should have instilled in them from day one that's not something taught but rather a way of life. Respecting there elders, being able to open a door for someone else and not trying to get everything given to them instead of working for it.

Respect is a soap box for me sorry but it is, that's something that really gets to my last nerve. It seems as Theo we grow less respectful to one another by the day. Like for example my kids calling one another an idiot or another name that's totally not exceptable in my house. Just the other day my son got his mouth washed out with soap for saying something he shouldn't have. When they are fighting about something I make them stop tell something good about their brother or sister. Which it's good when I'm driving down the road cuz they can't the look on my face after hearing what they are saying along with the look the have on their face. LOL

We should not have to work Christmas eve or Christmas day dare I say the day after Christmas as well.

[mattwtrs]

Originally Posted by JustTired

Oh boy! You've struck a nerve with me, now.

Just exactly when was it that we started losing those "traditional values"?

As a kid growing up in the 50s-60s, I look back and think how great it was. Ours was a most likely lower middle-class family. We had a roof over our heads and didn't seem to lack for much. Of course, we didn't have the latest and greatest when it came to possessions, but I think over all we did alright. Did my parents have a credit card? I doubt it early on. This would change in time.

Back then...eating at a restaraunt was a big deal and didn't happen that often. Most Sundays were spent at my grandparents with a big meal that to this day I miss most of all. If not the company....surely the food. After the meal, sitting on the front porch in the warm months watching the world go by seemed to be entertainment enough.

We, as kids, had no problem finding things to do during the schooless summer months. And the only reason you would even think of staying inside was if you were sick. I could go on and on just talking about this.

I guess my point is.......are we all better off today?


Not working Christmas day would be a start, I guess.

Great idea, Of course this will be my first Christmas eve in 35 years that that my wife won't be wondering what time I will be getting home.

Bring back the Traditional values!

[But Benefits Are Great!]

UPS should have a catered feast a week before Christmas for all employees & family. Best couple million bucks UPS would ever spend.

[moreluck]

BBAG....if UPS did that, someone would surely complain about the gravy being cold or the meat not tasting right. Won't work !!

[Leftinbuilding]

Tie, I think I must have missed something here. Is this (working Christmas) being considered, or are you trying to "head it off at the pass"? Jim Casey had only been gone a few years, but I wonder if he would recognize his company. From the little I have studied him, I don't think anyone would have had the guts to even suggest working Christmas day. Amazing.

[dannyboy]

Tie

for the most part, i agree. family time at ups is hard to come by, and should be cherished when ever possible.

that being said, there are a lot of arguments that the 25th of december has no real significance than a few years back, someone said so. Traditionally and originally, the 25th of december was a german pagan holiday. so as far as sincere christians that have never known the truth, sorry. but it is what it is.

as for ups working on christmas day, we only provide a service. it is the people that think so little of anyone else that insist on a christmas day delivery that are running the show. and after the show at walmart this year, i have come to the belief that the christmas as you know it has come under assault. not because of money, but selfishness. on the part of so many. and wanting deliveries on the only day even walmart closes says loads about ups.

bring back the spirit of christmas, the helping your neighbor who has been laid off with groceries for his family, the elderly couple that had their car break down with no way to fix it, and the child who has parents that will take what ever gift you buy back for beer money. but instead we walk or run right by these to get the latest game for the xbox, ii, or whatever floats the stores bottom line.

d

[covemaster]

Originally Posted by over9five

Although technically I agree with Ties post, I think there are always people that will work holidays.

We had a sign up list for Thanksgiving Day, and there were names on it.

wow thats a suprise ovah!!!! the same guys all the time,and the same guys that would file for holiday pay on a mon nite for labor day and mem day if givin sunday nite off and told to work mon nite RIGHT!!!!

[covemaster]

Merry Christmas,,Merry Christmas ,,Merry Christmas!!!! I hope i have offended somebody here!!!!! I think the moral fiber of this country began with the removal of GOD from the schools,,, I'm not a religious nut by no means ,but look at all the far out nuts from that court decision onward!! Well in a democracy,the majority rules,Jesus stays!! If you dont like it,lady Liberty wont keep yah here, the door is allways open to go back to your country where you could be killed or locked up for speaking your mind !!! Merry Christmas!!!!

[Leftinbuilding]

Originally Posted by covemaster

Merry Christmas,,Merry Christmas ,,Merry Christmas!!!! I hope i have offended somebody here!!!!! I think the moral fiber of this country began with the removal of GOD from the schools,,, I'm not a religious nut by no means ,but look at all the far out nuts from that court decision onward!! Well in a democracy,the majority rules,Jesus stays!! If you dont like it,lady Liberty wont keep yah here, the door is allways open to go back to your country where you could be killed or locked up for speaking your mind !!! Merry Christmas!!!!

Kinda appropriate here........

Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all;"
PLUS
"a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great, (not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country or is the only "AMERICA" in the western hemisphere), and without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith, choice of computer platform, or sexual orientation of the wisher." (Disclaimer: By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these terms. This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others, and is void where prohibited by law, and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher. This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher who assumes no responsibility for any unintended emotional stress these greetings may bring to those not caught up in the holiday spirit.)

with love (unless it will upset or offend you in any way in which case, please disregard that closing statement)

--

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by Leftinbuilding

Tie, I think I must have missed something here. Is this (working Christmas) being considered, or are you trying to "head it off at the pass"? Jim Casey had only been gone a few years, but I wonder if he would recognize his company. From the little I have studied him, I don't think anyone would have had the guts to even suggest working Christmas day. Amazing.

When we pickup packages on christmas eve this year to deliver the day after it will mean that we will have pilots flying , air sorts running and feeder drivers moving air loads from air hubs on christmas day. It is definitely in the plans.

At the same time I have seen us continue to allow large shippers to push us to the very last possible minute which then continues to infringe more and more on this special day.

We have holidays all year long that we work. I think there should be one day a year where we as a company politely tell our customers that we will be shutting down for our employees and familys.
For those who are non christians it still becomes a paid day off to spend with their familys. I personally would have no problem having extra paid days off while my muslim or jewish friends celebrate their holiday...... Therefore I don't think its really a forced religion type issue.

[dannyboy]

Therefore I don't think its really a forced religion type issue.

its not, therefore my post.

to whomever, what ever christmas means to you, fine. sunday laws are something of a different story.

but as a tradition, having christmas off is a ups tradition. and while the traditional logo went by the wayside, some things are worth keeping.

problem with the air services, there is a huge air system that has to work. not all those people will volunteer, so there will always be those that will be forced to work that holiday. and that is what i have an issue with. it it was all really truly voluntary, then it would be something different. but no way it can be.

d