management layoffs

[iamoverit2]

Hi, everyone!
I am a loader and on my PD we need only one p/t sup., but we have two! And what they do, guess – the Union job, sending people home, and loading instead of them. And we, now have to fight over our minimum, 3 ½ hours. (And, the Union rep. people….even from the “Union Hall”, just waking buy, ignoring…)
Cut them off!!!

[Sleeve_meet_Heart]

Originally Posted by iamoverit2

Hi, everyone!
I am a loader and on my PD we need only one p/t sup., but we have two! And what they do, guess – the Union job, sending people home, and loading instead of them. And we, now have to fight over our minimum, 3 ½ hours. (And, the Union rep. people….even from the “Union Hall”, just waking buy, ignoring…)
Cut them off!!!

You don't know the game yet obviously.

Approach the sup and stand there drooling with your mouth open. Tell the sup working you thought that they were training you. I do that from time to time just to mess with them. For the most part P/T sups are just innocent bystanders doing what F/T sups tell them to make their numbers. Make a scene if you must. Don't be afraid of the big brown bully. Believe me, I've walked the walk, and if you are deep down strong enough, these jerks have no recourse except harrass and try to intmiidate. See through it, have fun, but don't let them make their phony bonuses which they will do anything and everything possible to recieve. And if they do make the bonuses, make it as non-linear as possible (if that makes sense)

[dilligaf]

Last, I agree with what you say, but don't limit it to 9.5's. It needs to be done for the whole contract. Just stop violating the contract. Period.

It is a waste of time, the 9.5 greivances. Last year we had the 9.5 list go up in Jan. With the exception of one driver (idiot), every driver signed the 9.5. How simple is that. Now we have this new and improved () version. Why complicate things? All it does is muddy the waters. I've already had a panel decision ('07) on 9.5's and they act as if it doesn't even exist.

As far as the number of sup's go, I think we have a pretty good ratio. We have 17 bidded rtes, with 6 utility drivers for backup. A total of 23 FT drivers, not including air drivers (3). I think right now we have 1 or 2 cover drivers. We have 4 sup's- preload, am, pm and local sort. Each of their shifts overlap about an hour, so the office is never unmanned (theoretically-however this is not always the case). Then we have 1 (and I am not sure exactly what his title is) on-road sup/ctr mgr. that oversees everything at our ctr. The big bosses (DM and DM) are not at our ctr but less than an hour away. Notice the 2 different sizes in DM, one is Distr mgr and the other is Div mgr.

Now that I think about it, I guess techinaclly the am and pm positions would be OMS's and the preload and local sort would be Sup's. Is there any difference?

[trickpony1]

Originally Posted by iamoverit2

Hi, everyone!
I am a loader and on my PD we need only one p/t sup., but we have two! And what they do, guess – the Union job, sending people home, and loading instead of them. And we, now have to fight over our minimum, 3 ½ hours. (And, the Union rep. people….even from the “Union Hall”, just waking buy, ignoring…)
Cut them off!!!

Isn't it curious that a pkg car driver can get fired for "padding stops" and/or "padding miles" but a PT supe can't get fired for "padding production" (doing re-tapes, irregs, breaking jams, cleaning grates, loading, unloading).

The work that the PT supes do doesn't show up on any report so they are, essentially, a ghost employee.
It makes their numbers look good.
It makes their FT supes numbers look good.
Everyone is happy.

I would say a PT supe doing union work constitutes falsification and dishonesty which are both terminable offenses.

[ups_vette]

Originally Posted by trickpony1

Isn't it curious that a pkg car driver can get fired for "padding stops" and/or "padding miles"

OMG...I can't believe what you're saying Trickpony. Are you actually saying that there are Teamster pkg car drivers that would cheat and not give UPS a fair and honest days work? I hope 705 doesn't see you bad mouthing the Teamsters by saying that there are dishonest Teamsters working for UPS.

[dilligaf]

And heaven forbid the company would admit they employed (or for that matter, endorsed) mgt personel that harrased and bullied said Teamsters.

[stringerman85]

Originally Posted by ups_vette

OMG...I can't believe what you're saying Trickpony. Are you actually saying that there are Teamster pkg car drivers that would cheat and not give UPS a fair and honest days work? I hope 705 doesn't see you bad mouthing the Teamsters by saying that there are dishonest Teamsters working for UPS.

It's only considered cheating by UPS management....Too many rules to follow for one simple job...And that's not just driving, That's all the jobs in the company.....If you get the big picture, All that really matters in the world is that the customer gets their package unbroken, and on time to their delivery address, That's all anyone else in the world really cares

[ETA]

maybe we could call vette up and put him back on the job, he could help solve this mess it would probably save his family alot on adult daycare

[drewed]

We were just casually talking about the what if of management layoffs and it was said theyd go by seniority company wise so with 2 years suping and a year and a couple months as union would put me in line as like 8th out of 28 pt sups, id figured theyd go by some sort of performance based layoffs

[Sleeve_meet_Heart]

Originally Posted by drewed

We were just casually talking about the what if of management layoffs and it was said theyd go by seniority company wise so with 2 years suping and a year and a couple months as union would put me in line as like 8th out of 28 pt sups, id figured theyd go by some sort of performance based layoffs

most buildings in my 8 years go by a mix of seniority and performance

one big aspect now is they are targeting sups in our building for stealing time. leaving work on clock or punching in/out earlier or later than actually occured.

[drewed]

Yea Id imagine attendance overall would be a big issue coming in late we have that prob a lot id imagine theyre still clocking in their scheduled start time....i know my manager looks into when I clock in and when the actual punch was made in PTRS

[705red]

Originally Posted by ups_vette

OMG...I can't believe what you're saying Trickpony. Are you actually saying that there are Teamster pkg car drivers that would cheat and not give UPS a fair and honest days work? I hope 705 doesn't see you bad mouthing the Teamsters by saying that there are dishonest Teamsters working for UPS.

I learned at ups a long time ago, that your only as good as your management team! And if you break down the ratio of union employees honesty to managements honesty, its leaning heavily towards management as being the dishonest ones!

[drewed]

Originally Posted by 705red

I learned at ups a long time ago, that your only as good as your management team! And if you break down the ratio of union employees honesty to managements honesty, its leaning heavily towards management as being the dishonest ones!

I hear what your saying Red but Ill use drivers as an example theyre the face of the company, sorters being dishonest will involve the customer generally more then a supervisor being dishonest BY NO MEANS am I justifying it, just the reality why UPS is so hard up on it.

[BrownTail28]

They wont cut that much management. We have a lot of ownership in the company, and we actually care about the well-being of the company. We now have frozen salaries, no 401K match, and more than likely we wont get our half month or our MIP, and what did we do the next day after getting that news??? We showed up to work just like every other day. What would more than likely happen if they did that to the union employees??? A strike??? A massive work slowdown??? Bottom line is we will do whatever it takes to keep this company a float. The same cannot be said for the union employees....

[ups767mech]

Originally Posted by BrownTail28

They wont cut that much management. We have a lot of ownership in the company, and we actually care about the well-being of the company. We now have frozen salaries, no 401K match, and more than likely we wont get our half month or our MIP, and what did we do the next day after getting that news??? We showed up to work just like every other day. What would more than likely happen if they did that to the union employees??? A strike??? A massive work slowdown??? Bottom line is we will do whatever it takes to keep this company a float. The same cannot be said for the union employees....

Hilarious. Typical managment.

[Bagel]

Originally Posted by drewed

We were just casually talking about the what if of management layoffs and it was said theyd go by seniority company wise so with 2 years suping and a year and a couple months as union would put me in line as like 8th out of 28 pt sups, id figured theyd go by some sort of performance based layoffs

We're being strictly rated on performance. If an area is unproductive the pt supervisor responsible for that area basically has no job security.

[stringerman85]

Originally Posted by BrownTail28

They wont cut that much management. We have a lot of ownership in the company, and we actually care about the well-being of the company. We now have frozen salaries, no 401K match, and more than likely we wont get our half month or our MIP, and what did we do the next day after getting that news??? We showed up to work just like every other day. What would more than likely happen if they did that to the union employees??? A strike??? A massive work slowdown??? Bottom line is we will do whatever it takes to keep this company a float. The same cannot be said for the union employees....

HAHAHA that's so funny.....I'm so sorry that you sold your soul to the company and now you have to live with it....Nice comment by the way, Us teamsters have self pride, Unlike you management, You will let the company smack you around and all you will do is keep your tail between your legs. You knew that before going into management.....Hey, They don't care about you!!!!!!! You are no more special then any of the union employees in the building

[stringerman85]

Originally Posted by drewed

I hear what your saying Red but Ill use drivers as an example theyre the face of the company, sorters being dishonest will involve the customer generally more then a supervisor being dishonest BY NO MEANS am I justifying it, just the reality why UPS is so hard up on it.

How can a sorter be dishonest??? Towards a customer?? Lol....

A sorter can be sh-tty sorter, But the only dishonesty would be their pay....And that would be towards the company

[LastBest&Final]

Originally Posted by BrownTail28

They wont cut that much management. We have a lot of ownership in the company, and we actually care about the well-being of the company. We now have frozen salaries, no 401K match, and more than likely we wont get our half month or our MIP, and what did we do the next day after getting that news??? We showed up to work just like every other day. What would more than likely happen if they did that to the union employees??? A strike??? A massive work slowdown??? Bottom line is we will do whatever it takes to keep this company a float. The same cannot be said for the union employees....

BT have you worked for the company long?

I hope your right about not cutting much management, but there is some fat in some spots that needs trimming. I would think they will give the older managers some real motivation to retire early, and not replace them with new hires but move other managers around bit instead.

You must a have good amount of pride for the company and for your fellow management team to give up so much for the well-being of the company. There are Union employees that care about the well-being of the company, too. The difference is your sacrifice is dictated to you and the unions is negotiated and agreed to by both sides. It is easier to dictate than to negotiate.

Did you really have much of a choice, but to come to work the next day? If you didn't you would have been fired. It would have only saved them decision of which manager to get rid of next. The union employees have the advantage of being a single bargain unit, and locked into a contract until July 31, 2013 for good or bad. If the company's profit went sky high, the union employees wages would not have been any more than what's stated in the contract. Both management and union employees want to see large profits for UPS, it makes for a better contract in 2013, but if the company can't stay a float everyone's ship is sunk.

[stringerman85]

Originally Posted by LastBest&Final

BT have you worked for the company long?

I hope your right about not cutting much management, but there is some fat in some spots that needs trimming. I would think they will give the older managers some real motivation to retire early, and not replace them with new hires but move other managers around bit instead.

You must a have good amount of pride for the company and for your fellow management team to give up so much for the well-being of the company. There are Union employees that care about the well-being of the company, too. The difference is your sacrifice is dictated to you and the unions is negotiated and agreed to by both sides. It is easier to dictate than to negotiate.

Did you really have much of a choice, but to come to work the next day? If you didn't you would have been fired. It would have only saved them decision of which manager to get rid of next. The union employees have the advantage of being a single bargain unit, and locked into a contract until July 31, 2013 for good or bad. If the company's profit went sky high, the union employees wages would not have been any more than what's stated in the contract. Both management and union employees want to see large profits for UPS, it makes for a better contract in 2013, but if the company can't stay a float everyone's ship is sunk.

Very good post.....I didn't feel like he deserved a friendly response to what he said

I think he is out of line by saying we don't keep the company afloat when we're the majority in the work force, We're the ones greeting customers and bringing in new business. How dare he make himself feel like he's more important and more efficient than we are.

I think our contract that was finalized last year was part of our "economy cut" We took cuts in almost every category in the contract, including wages, rasies etc...our part has already been done

And hey, I showed up to work the next day.........jerkoff

[LastBest&Final]

He just took a hit in the old pocket book for the company. I sure most of us in his shoes wouldn't like either. It only natural to feel that it isn't fair, and that everyone in the company should help carry the load. I think that was point he was trying to get across.

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by stringerman85

How can a sorter be dishonest??? Towards a customer?? Lol....

A sorter can be sh-tty sorter, But the only dishonesty would be their pay....And that would be towards the company

When a sorter, steals something out of a package, it effects the customer in a negative way.
A sorters pay is a dirty rotten shame, but it isn't dishonest.

[stringerman85]

Originally Posted by LastBest&Final

He just took a hit in the old pocket book for the company. I sure most of us in his shoes wouldn't like either. It only natural to feel that it isn't fair, and that everyone in the company should help carry the load. I think that was point he was trying to get across.

It really is a shame that it came down to them not getting raises, don't get me wrong, I do feel bad about it....Hopefully everything turns around and it doesn't get worse for them or any of us

[stringerman85]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

When a sorter, steals something out of a package, it effects the customer in a negative way.
A sorters pay is a dirty rotten shame, but it isn't dishonest.

As would a supervisor stealing stuff, Happened more than a few times at my building.....And they were canned...So if a sorter gets extra time he didn't earn, Does nothing about it, But then complains when his time is 5 minutes short, That's not being dishonest?

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by stringerman85

As would a supervisor stealing stuff, Happened more than a few times at my building.....And they were canned...So if a sorter gets extra time he didn't earn, Does nothing about it, But then complains when his time is 5 minutes short, That's not being dishonest?

You said"

But the only dishonesty would be their pay....And that would be towards the company

I wasn't talking about being shorted on time and ^ post didn't mention shortage of time. If the company intentionally shorts a worker on their time that is dishonest, on the comapny's part. If the company makes a mistake in the workers favor and he doesn't report it, that too is dishonest, on the workers part.

When I said the pay was a shame but not dishonest, I was referring to the hourly wage.