Telematics---not very accurate

[brownman15]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

Telematics
Telematics sites show safety improvements, reduced automotive expense, and less road calls.

auto accidents have actually gone up since we have telematics

There have been small performance gains, very few disciplinary actions taken and one termination that I'm aware of.

i disagree have one driver on notice of termination for not wearing seat belt and bulkhead door open. in the training for this management said they would be disciplining drivers.
P-Man

[No such person]

I had a day last week where my average backing speed ( yes, they check that too ) was 28 mph. That seems a little high to me.

[Hoaxster]

Originally Posted by No such person

I had a day last week where my average backing speed ( yes, they check that too ) was 28 mph. That seems a little high to me.

28 mph? What did you do? Back off a cliff?

[tae111]

I never had a problem going off paper. Remember the last time you delivered on paper in the rain? The DIAD was something that made my job easier.I can't see telematics doing that. "telematics should only concern those who are not doing the job the way that they were tought to do it"? I remember when they came out with time studies and allowances. If you happen to be the driver who got a bad one you were in for a life of misery. When they came out with the " Methods" I took them home and memorized them. I practiced them every day until they became second nature. It made me a more productive and effecient driver. It did not keep me from having to endure months of harassment, having my job threatend,followed on route, three day rides, ect. untill they figured out it was a bad allowance. I shouldn't be concerned though. I was just doing the job the way I was trained. Telematics....Good Luck !

Wipe your mouth,There's still a little B.S around your lips

[HEFFERNAN]

Originally Posted by No such person

I had a day last week where my average backing speed ( yes, they check that too ) was 28 mph. That seems a little high to me.

I am very curious if they are going by the engine's RPM rather than MPH. There is no way anyone will reverse at 20+ miles an hour. I wonder if P-man can shed some light.

[govols019]

PAS has been measured and has shown that overall miles have been reduced by 30 million per year.

The reduction in miles was caused by the elimination of routes when PAS was implemented. PAS didn't make the deliveries closer together. PAS just made the overtime go up.

[tae111]

28mph ? how many gears do you have in revearse?

[Cobra Agent]

we have it here in New Orleans. Last week my bulk head door didnt shut as tight as it should...the next day on the report it showed that i had 122 instances of driving with the door open and drove 45 miles with it open. (But not to worry as soon as i noticed something was wrong with it I called my onroad and him about it) It is all about doing your job safely and cya

[PENNYdaCHUG]

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

This may be before your time, but we heard the same argument when the DIAD first came out. There was nothing wrong with sheeting on paper and the system used for addressing and labeling pkgs was fine. Can you imagine going back to paper at this point?

People resist change--it is in our DNA. Change for the sake of change is a waste. Change for the sake of improving productivity and efficiency is welcome change.

Back to the thread--telematics should only concern those who are not doing the job the way that they were taught to do it.

I'd like to respond to the statement "telematics should only concern those who are not doing the job the way they were taught..".
We recently instituted the telematics in our center. I was told by my center manager that I had 252 seatbelts violations in one day. Apparently the vehicle was moving without my seatbelt engaged. I was trained, along with many others, to flip the PKNG brake, hit the key, and snap the belt as you pulled out. And of course reverse when stopping. Now apparently that is all incorrect and after 20 years of service I have to reacquaint myself with the task of when and when not to "snap the belt" or else get disciplined. It would seem to me that a few feet of moving without your belt isn't much of a concern but to our "current" illustrious leader it is!

[PENNYdaCHUG]

Originally Posted by No such person

I had a day last week where my average backing speed ( yes, they check that too ) was 28 mph. That seems a little high to me.

Hey NSP, one more thing you may want to mull over. Check out the definition of "Duty of Care". In short, it would seem if the Head Honchos at our beloved UPS were so inclined, if you were involved in an accident they could use the info derived from the telematics to displace blame from them to you for any losses incurred. Now true, case by case would change from state to state, however the point remains and as popularity for use of these devices increases, I wouldn't be surprised if some politician's pockets became fatter in an attempt to institute such practices in areas of the country where they are currently lacking! FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!

[soberups]

Originally Posted by PENNYdaCHUG

Hey NSP, one more thing you may want to mull over. Check out the definition of "Duty of Care". In short, it would seem if the Head Honchos at our beloved UPS were so inclined, if you were involved in an accident they could use the info derived from the telematics to displace blame from them to you for any losses incurred. Now true, case by case would change from state to state, however the point remains and as popularity for use of these devices increases, I wouldn't be surprised if some politician's pockets became fatter in an attempt to institute such practices in areas of the country where they are currently lacking! FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!

Incorrect.

Article 6

Section 4
(8) No employee shall be discharged on a first offense if such discharge is based solely upon
information received from GPS or any successor system unless he/she engages in dishonesty
(defined for the purposes of this paragraph as any act or omission by an employee where he/she
intends to defraud the Company). The degree of discipline dealing with off-area offenses shall not
be changed because of the use of GPS.


ALSO........

ARTICLE 10. LOSS OR DAMAGE
Section 1.
.................This Article is not to be construed as permitting charges for loss or damage
to equipment or for any damage to merchandise as a result of a vehicular accident
under any circumstances.

[Tiny Panda]

Originally Posted by soberups

We had one driver who, according to Telematics, backed up for 14 blocks through an urban area... at 35 MPH.

Oooh sounds like they were watching me

[UpstateNYUPSer]

Originally Posted by PENNYdaCHUG

Hey NSP, one more thing you may want to mull over. Check out the definition of "Duty of Care". In short, it would seem if the Head Honchos at our beloved UPS were so inclined, if you were involved in an accident they could use the info derived from the telematics to displace blame from them to you for any losses incurred. Now true, case by case would change from state to state, however the point remains and as popularity for use of these devices increases, I wouldn't be surprised if some politician's pockets became fatter in an attempt to institute such practices in areas of the country where they are currently lacking! FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!

I would think that if my behavior behind the wheel were the cause of an accident then I would accept the blame and face the consequences. On the flip side, Telematics can also be used to prove that my behavior behind the wheel actually helped me stay in control and that I did everything that I could to avoid and then minimze the impact of an accident.

Monitoring devices have been a part of our culture for some time. Are you familiar with EZ Pass? This is the highway toll collection system which uses a device in your car to wirelessly pay the tolls from your pre-paid account. Did you know that divorce lawyers use these records in efforts to prove infidelity or that govt agencies use these to prove cases of misuse of govt vehicles? These are also used to monitor traffic flow and to change the traffic patterns to improve it.

Parents can buy Black Boxes to monitor their kids' driving behaviors and can install chips in their cell phones to monitor both location and whether they are using them while driving.

As far as the bribing of politicians I dare say you may have read one too many fiction novel.

[New Englander]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

While everyone takes this opportunity to bash UPS management and technology, let me provide some facts:

Telematics
Telematics sites show safety improvements, reduced automotive expense, and less road calls.

There have been small performance gains, very few disciplinary actions taken and one termination that I'm aware of.

Its saving UPS money in Automotive and so far allowing supervisors to move to a "virtual OJS" therefore reducing their time.

As Sober said, its not 100% accurate and if a supervisor should NOT discipline anyone based on those areas of inaccuracy.

All in all its an outstanding system and more advancements and improvements will come.

PAS
PAS sites show substantial service improvements, visibility improvements, and miles reduction. PAS has been measured and has shown that overall miles have been reduced by 30 million per year.

A relatively large percent of sites (maybe 30%) have not seen the gains as the others. From my experience, this is mostly due to poor management. They leave inaccurate information in the system and this causes packages to be either on the wrong car, wrong place in trace, or wrong place in the car.

These sites probably need to start over. The system is very easy to use but the user needs to understand dispatch concepts. Its kind of like giving a person Excel who doesn't know mathematic concepts. Good tool but poor outcome.

DIAD IV
It was revolutionary for its time. It started development about 7 years ago and was leading edge. The shift key was a necessity due to keeping the keys the size they are and reducing the size of the unit.

Maybe they should have made the keys smaller? I saw a picture of a DIAD IV with smaller keys and no shift key. From what I've seen the shift key, although a nuisance is not really that big a problem. 95% of our drivers are on EDD. They key much less than before EDD.

That leaves the key entry to be mostly in signature clarify (which is all alpha), and text messages. I teach drivers to use the it like a shift key instead of a toggle. It seems to be less of a problem

I think the signature key is the bigger problem. Maybe they should make you have to double click it or change something else in software to fix it.

BTW, from what I've seen, DIAD V won't have a shift key and will be smaller than a DIAD IV. The keys will be smaller. I hope that won't cause a new set of complaints.

My point is that UPS technology is not perfect. No technology is. UPS technology however goes through tremendous scrutiny before its built and deployed.

If someone tells you something is a "silver bullet", don't believe them. If someone tells you that technology is being deployed for ego or career purposes, don't believe them either.

Everything is a balance. Not all good or bad. If someone tells you otherwise, they have an agenda.

P-Man

That signature key sticks out like a sore thumb on a commercial route. I fail to see how if this diad had real world testing it would or could have stayed that way.

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by New Englander

That signature key sticks out like a sore thumb on a commercial route. I fail to see how if this diad had real world testing it would or could have stayed that way.

500 drivers tested the DIAD IV for over a year. They were in multiple districts.

I'm sure someone knows more about that testing than me..

[soberups]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

500 drivers tested the DIAD IV for over a year. They were in multiple districts.

I'm sure someone knows more about that testing than me..

I will hazard a guess that all 500 test drivers complained loudly about the location of the signature button....but the IE guy in charge of the testing ignored them because he didnt want to spend the small amount of money it would have cost to move it.

[Hoaxster]

Originally Posted by soberups

I will hazard a guess that all 500 test drivers complained loudly about the location of the signature button....but the IE guy in charge of the testing ignored them because he didnt want to spend the small amount of money it would have cost to move it.

LOL

I venture a guess you don't have any rose-colored glasses at your house.

[PENNYdaCHUG]

I also believe we are responsible for our own actions. I simply question the reliability of the new technology being instituted by UPS. I did, however, post this under the title "Telematics--not very accurate". My contention is what if the info being supplied by Telematics is inaccurate and they use it against you. You not only would have to prove your innocence but the flaws in the Telematics. I would expect more from a Grisham novel lover. Doesn't he write "fiction" novels based on legal dramas? I think in this case art can imitate life quite easily.

[HEFFERNAN]

Originally Posted by PENNYdaCHUG

I also believe we are responsible for our own actions. I simply question the reliability of the new technology being instituted by UPS. I did, however, post this under the title "Telematics--not very accurate". My contention is what if the info being supplied by Telematics is inaccurate and they use it against you. You not only would have to prove your innocence but the flaws in the Telematics. I would expect more from a Grisham novel lover. Doesn't he write "fiction" novels based on legal dramas? I think in this case art can imitate life quite easily.

The problem is this -

Everything that pops out of that computer is GOSPEL. Management can not and will not argue any numbers that is on the morning reports. To them, it is 100% accurate. Even if you come in with facts proving it isn't. They will tell you, "IT IS 100% ACCURATE"

Those emails from the higher ups to the Cm is THE WORD OF GOD. They have to follow it or do their bidding or else they will find another servant to sit in the seat. Its the way it is.

[outamyway]

We had one driver who, according to Telematics, backed up for 14 blocks through an urban area... at 35 MPH.

Sounds like fun! I'll have to try that some day

[brett636]

We have telematics in my hub, and I heard some drivers discussing it as I was walking in last Friday. Apparently it showed one of them not wearing their seatbelt all day due to a sensor malfunction. The contract language covers this by saying we cannot be disciplined on the first offense, so what if a sensor malfunctions over the course of several days? Can each day be counted as an "offense"? Is there language stating that they need to observe the employee performing the offense before they can be disciplined?

[trickpony1]

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

As far as the bribing of politicians I dare say you may have read one too many fiction novel.

I, honest to God, can't believe you said this.

I guess you've never heard of "government liason officer", yes, our company has these. What do they do?....use your imagination.
I guess you've never heard of "lobbyists", again, guess what they do.
I guess you've never had Senators and Representatives visit your hub complete with coffee and dough nuts. I wonder what they are really doing?
I guess you've never read my hometown newspaper that had an article talking about how right after "our" company got some new air routes to China, the checks were in the mail to respective gpovernment individuals. Bribe? what else would you call it?

Bribe? PROVE IT. (you can't).

If you wait long enough, Upstate, Dorothy and Toto will come romping around the corner.

[badpal.]

Originally Posted by HEFFERNAN

The problem is this -

Everything that pops out of that computer is GOSPEL. Management can not and will not argue any numbers that is on the morning reports. To them, it is 100% accurate. Even if you come in with facts proving it isn't. They will tell you, "IT IS 100% ACCURATE"

Those emails from the higher ups to the Cm is THE WORD OF GOD. They have to follow it or do their bidding or else they will find another servant to sit in the seat. Its the way it is.

amen...hallelujah hollaback

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by trickpony1

I, honest to God, can't believe you said this.

I guess you've never heard of "government liason officer", yes, our company has these. What do they do?....use your imagination.
I guess you've never heard of "lobbyists", again, guess what they do.
I guess you've never had Senators and Representatives visit your hub complete with coffee and dough nuts. I wonder what they are really doing?
I guess you've never read my hometown newspaper that had an article talking about how right after "our" company got some new air routes to China, the checks were in the mail to respective gpovernment individuals. Bribe? what else would you call it?

Bribe? PROVE IT. (you can't).

If you wait long enough, Upstate, Dorothy and Toto will come romping around the corner.

UPS has a Public Affairs group in Washington DC. I guess you can call them lobbyists. I've never heard the term "government liason officer".

I had an opportunity a few years ago to spend a week with them to learn about the process, procedures, and their priorities. It was enlightening and made it clear to me how PACS work in general, but also how UPS and the government works.

Its clear to me that bribery does NOT go on. Here is a link:
http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/topp...e=2008&party=A

It shows where PAC money comes from and goes to. No one at UPS is risking jail over this.

If you're sure that UPS bribes politicians with PAC money, then I would guess you think the Teamsters do so also? The Teamsters have a larger PAC than UPS.

BTW, labor PACS dwarf business PACS.

P-Man

[UpstateNYUPSer]

Thank you, p-man.