Runners......

[Jones]

Originally Posted by big_arrow_up

My favorite is when the runners keep getting more and more work and say that they are going to lay down (they say "stay out") as a way of protesting. Its usually BS though and they still come in early. On the rare occasion that they actually do this they actually end up running the route closer to the way its supposed to be run anyway. They think that they are proving a point but the rest of us haven't quite figured out what it is yet.

I had a guy(long time runner) tell me, with a straight face, that he was "taking the gloves off, from now on he wasn't coming in before 1730"
I just said "That's right tiger, you show'em how it's gonna be..."
I'm sure the DM was losing sleep over this particular rebellion, probably had a conference call the next day to try and find a resolution to that devastating drop in production. It's amazing to me that someone can work for this company for over 15 years and still be so completely clueless about how things work.

[DorkHead]

Originally Posted by tieguy

Good idea Rookie. Lets all slow it down and bloat this pig with excess drivers so the company loses money and we all lose our jobs. I like the way you think.

WRONG again TIE. There is nothing in his post suggesting that the drivers slow down. Please reread the post.

[gandydancer]

Originally Posted by tieguy

...Steve its interesting watching the tone of you posts change...

Other things can cause it, but getting "fired" by UPS without just cause will definately have that kind of effect.

[705red]

Originally Posted by gandydancer

Other things can cause it, but getting "fired" by UPS without just cause will definately have that kind of effect.

I have said it before, ups creates the union employee! Eventually everyone is wronged and its a shock to ups when they see all the union bumper stickers in the lot, or more people wearing union shirts and jackets.

We have a shirt here that sells like hot cakes, "will strike if necessary", management blames our relationship on this shirt!? HAHA

If people where not wronged this shirt would never sell!

[blue efficacy]

If the union employees treated part timers more fairly around contract time, getting laid off to part time wouldn't be as bad as it is. Just reminding everyone.

[UpstateNYUPSer]

Originally Posted by gandydancer

Other things can cause it, but getting "fired" by UPS without just cause will definately have that kind of effect.

As much as I like STUG and what he has and will continue to offer here, I do have to say that he may have gone too far and ultimately brought this upon himself. I do, however, disagree with the discipline handed out and think it could have been resolved with a meeting with all of the parties involved.

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

As much as I like STUG and what he has and will continue to offer here, I do have to say that he may have gone too far and ultimately brought this upon himself. I do, however, disagree with the discipline handed out and think it could have been resolved with a meeting with all of the parties involved.

You are right to an extent UpState. I think Steve would have never admitted to being a runner prior to his injury, but has now seen the light. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that UPS never disciplines the runners, which is true ......until they get hurt. Then they are thrown under the bus with everyone else that doesn't hit the "numbers".
Since Steve's epiphany came about while he was struggling with management to do what they should have already been doing in the safety program. Then he gets hurt on the job and all of a sudden he is lower than the belly of an alligator. Now he sees the light that the way to keep safe on the job is through better safe wirk methods. Better safety attained is is more inportant than running the numbers that feeds a CMs carrier.

[brownrodster]

There will always be runners. Some people will be done at 1700 no matter how many stops you give them. I'm a very fast driver. However, I follow the methods better than most. I once went on road with a different driver as his helper. I was shocked by how much faster you could go by letting the truck idle, leaving the bulkhead open, not using your seatbelt, and running to and from the truck etc... I was actually slowing him down if all I did was walk with a brisk pace. He could do the route faster himself without a helper unless the helper actually ran their 4ss off. Some guys just don't care. I know one guy who hates this job so much he says he doesn't care if he gets fired and breaks every rule there is to get done early everynight.

[Livin the Dream?]

Originally Posted by blue efficacy

If the union employees treated part timers more fairly around contract time, getting laid off to part time wouldn't be as bad as it is. Just reminding everyone.

This is the "special Grandma that lives in the attic that nobody speaks of" around UPS. No wonder you have a bad rep here

UPS preaches advancement from within, then treats the lower tier employees like disposable diapers. Those in part-time, loaders, unloaders, etc., have had the same starting pay for 15 years. Inflation adjusted, starting pay has gone down from 35 years ago. But hey, thats ok, because we gave them benefits - that now take a year to kick in instead of 90 days.

Loaders / unloaders have a much more physically demanding job than ANYONE at UPS, and are paid less than starting wage at McDonalds. It is a harder job BY FAR (in my opinion) than driving a PC, by orders of magnitude. Anyone who argues that it is not the most physically demanding job at UPS has either forgotten what it is like, or is delusional. For PC drivers to make 4X what a loader/unloader does is criminal, a travesty.

To then have UPS management wonder why there is so much turnover and unrest in the ranks is nothing less than stupidity. As my daughter would say, "DUH!"

Us drivers here have swallowed hook, line and sinker the story we heard that we are worth it, we make more because we have gone thru the ranks, earned our stripes, we deserve it. Bullspit. If we were to be honest with ourselves, look inside ourselves, we know that we are paid a stupid-good wage for a job that is, let's face it, unskilled. We are lucky. We hit the lottery. We are like those who show disdain for those that sue for 10 billion bucks for spilling hot coffee on thier crotch, but are on the phone with 10 lawyers the moment it happens to them to try & cash in.

We cannot admit publicly the complete and total unfairness at UPS - that we are overpaid, and those that work just as hard, harder, are underpaid.

5 seconds after a particular member on this site reads this post, he will respond. He won't be able to help himself. He will say "well, everyone had a chance to vote on the contract, this is the contract you voted for", and to that I would say shame on you, and here is why;

When I started here, I knew it was a Union job. That is the extent of my understanding of unions. I knew I had to pay some of my paycheck to the unions to be employed by UPS. That is what I knew. I'm not stupid, and I'm not saying anyone just starting out at UPS is unintelligent (regarding Unions anyway). I'm saying if there is going to be a union, then the union has a duty, an absolute and complete obligation to represent ALL union brothers & sisters, MOST ESPECIALLY those that need the most help with a union contract, the new guy.

It is no secret that the starting wage is stupidly low, and driver wage is stupidly high. If the uniopn were to accomplish what they state thier mission is, this would not be the case.

[trplnkl]

Hello BBag, how ya been?

[dilligaf]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

Hello BBag, how ya been?

LMFAO

[over9five]

<sigh>

I'll say what I always say whenever this comes up.

If the part timers attended local meetings; if the part-timers voted... then by their numbers alone, THEY COULD RUN THE UNION and get whatever they want.

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by over9five

<sigh>

I'll say what I always say whenever this comes up.

If the part timers attended local meetings; if the part-timers voted... then by their numbers alone, THEY COULD RUN THE UNION and get whatever they want.

The only problem I have with that is logistics, my local is 120 miles from our center. Makes it hard to run down the the ole union hall.

[iowa boy]

Originally Posted by over9five

<sigh>

I'll say what I always say whenever this comes up.

If the part timers attended local meetings; if the part-timers voted... then by their numbers alone, THEY COULD RUN THE UNION and get whatever they want.

Over, I agree with your statement 100%. There needs to be more involvement by everyone of the union hourlies. But the problem around here where I'm at is that our local holds its meetings at 700 on a tuesday night once a month. So the parttimers on the local sort can't attend these meetings. The local says it won't change the meeting time as no one in our local wants to work on the weekends unless they are forced to. So with that decision, the local has excluded about 20% of the UPS teamsters here in the center I work in.

Now mind you I'm not trying to be argumentative or confrontational, it just kinda burns my gluteous maximus that 20% percent of our membership here at UPS has been excluded from this and people complain cuz the parttimers don't get involved.

[Livin the Dream?]

An over-simplification, if you will allow -

9-5, I feel you are completely correct; the problem is is that the vast majority of part time employees don't participate because there is absolutely no education (indoctrination) by the union.

The union should spend almost ZERO time with the rank & file drivers, who understand completely how to access the union, and spend 100% of the time introducing themselves to newbies & explaining the benefits of the union. Or advising the when & where of meetings at the very least.

Here, you have to be a PI to find out anything about the Union.

[over9five]

Originally Posted by iowa boy

But the problem around here where I'm at is that our local holds its meetings at 700 on a tuesday night once a month. So the parttimers on the local sort can't attend these meetings.

That is unacceptable (IMHO) from your local. Here the monthly meeting is on a Sunday.

Originally Posted by Livin the Dream?

An over-simplification, if you will allow -

9-5, I feel you are completely correct; the problem is is that the vast majority of part time employees don't participate because there is absolutely no education (indoctrination) by the union.

The union should spend almost ZERO time with the rank & file drivers, who understand completely how to access the union, and spend 100% of the time introducing themselves to newbies & explaining the benefits of the union. Or advising the when & where of meetings at the very least.

Here, you have to be a PI to find out anything about the Union.

Here we all get a postcard every month telling the time and place of the monthly meeting. I have even seen announcements of new member meetings.

[sano]

Part timers aren't active?
Part of the issue may be that we are not invited into the process. Since I have worked at UPS I have not seen or heard from one person from the union hall. Don't know when the meetings are. Don't know the name of the local.
The only contact I have had is with a steward that came and got me a took me into the office when I had 2 misloads in one day.(after 2 weeks of perfect service)

I obviously have not gone out of my way to get involved, but wouldn't it seem that there should be some kind of education for part timers.

Oh but if something goes wrong and there is a strike we are expected to stand in solidarity? Hard to stand for an entity that you know nothing about.

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by sano

Part timers aren't active?
Part of the issue may be that we are not invited into the process. Since I have worked at UPS I have not seen or heard from one person from the union hall. Don't know when the meetings are. Don't know the name of the local.
The only contact I have had is with a steward that came and got me a took me into the office when I had 2 misloads in one day.(after 2 weeks of perfect service)

I obviously have not gone out of my way to get involved, but wouldn't it seem that there should be some kind of education for part timers.

Oh but if something goes wrong and there is a strike we are expected to stand in solidarity? Hard to stand for an entity that you know nothing about.

I don't want this to sound as if I am slamming you, that is not my intention at all so here goes anyway.
You are an adult for all practical purposes. Why should someone have to lead you to an organization, that you pay dues to, whose sole purpose is to protect you in your carrier? Seriously, find your steward ask for pamphlets and/or information on your local. If you've been a member for more than a few months I would think you have received things in the mail from the union. Take an active role in your participation, don't wait to be dragged into it. Like many things in life, if YOU don't see that YOU are treated right, no one will.

[sano]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

I don't want this to sound as if I am slamming you, that is not my intention at all so here goes anyway.
You are an adult for all practical purposes. Why should someone have to lead you to an organization, that you pay dues to, whose sole purpose is to protect you in your carrier? Seriously, find your steward ask for pamphlets and/or information on your local. If you've been a member for more than a few months I would think you have received things in the mail from the union. Take an active role in your participation, don't wait to be dragged into it. Like many things in life, if YOU don't see that YOU are treated right, no one will.

Defiantly not taken as a slam.
As far as being an adult. Was it Waylon that sang "You know my heart keeps telling me your not a kid at 33"

I understand what you are saying. My point was not about my personal involvement. I am sure I could track them down if I wanted to get involved. I was just surprised that an organization who's strength is based on the "buy in" and support of its members makes no effort to educate or court new members.

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

Omega, you can be assured that Upstate does not believe in the union. Just read his posts. He would love to be a supervisor. He does enjoy the benefits though.

[UpstateNYUPSer]

Originally Posted by What'dyabringmetoday???

Omega, you can be assured that Upstate does not believe in the union. Just read his posts. He would love to be a supervisor. He does enjoy the benefits though.

W, you have finally said something worthwhile. Did I choose to work at UPS so that I could become a Teamster? No, but ours is a closed shop and that is part of the deal. You are exactly right in that I enjoy the benefits of the Union but, correct me if I am wrong, isn't it UPS that pays our Health and Welfare benefits and isn't it my $88/month that pays for my Union representation? As far as the supervisor part, yes, I have put my letter in on several occasions but, with 20 years in, it would make little sense for me to make that move at this point in my career. Besides, although we take our share of BS, they take that and much more and the last thing I want to do is end up like RB who, IMO, should walk in tomorrow morning and announce his retirement.

I find it hard to believe in a Union when guys like Chico keep getting their jobs back after all of the stupid stuff that they do.

[stevetheupsguy]

Originally Posted by blue efficacy

If the union employees treated part timers more fairly around contract time, getting laid off to part time wouldn't be as bad as it is. Just reminding everyone.

Get involved, see what happens. Maybe YOU, can make a difference. JMHO

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

As much as I like STUG and what he has and will continue to offer here, I do have to say that he may have gone too far and ultimately brought this upon himself. I do, however, disagree with the discipline handed out and think it could have been resolved with a meeting with all of the parties involved.

I agree with the red, but must say, there are certain freedoms we have, though I do see your point. Thanks for the pat on the back.

Originally Posted by brownrodster

There will always be runners. Some people will be done at 1700 no matter how many stops you give them. I'm a very fast driver. However, I follow the methods better than most. I once went on road with a different driver as his helper. I was shocked by how much faster you could go by letting the truck idle, leaving the bulkhead open, not using your seatbelt, and running to and from the truck etc... I was actually slowing him down if all I did was walk with a brisk pace. He could do the route faster himself without a helper unless the helper actually ran their 4ss off. Some guys just don't care. I know one guy who hates this job so much he says he doesn't care if he gets fired and breaks every rule there is to get done early everynight.

Am not allowed to state my experience, though I would like to.

Originally Posted by Livin the Dream?

This is the "special Grandma that lives in the attic that nobody speaks of" around UPS. No wonder you have a bad rep here

UPS preaches advancement from within, then treats the lower tier employees like disposable diapers. Those in part-time, loaders, unloaders, etc., have had the same starting pay for 15 years. Inflation adjusted, starting pay has gone down from 35 years ago. But hey, thats ok, because we gave them benefits - that now take a year to kick in instead of 90 days.

Loaders / unloaders have a much more physically demanding job than ANYONE at UPS, and are paid less than starting wage at McDonalds. It is a harder job BY FAR (in my opinion) than driving a PC, by orders of magnitude. Anyone who argues that it is not the most physically demanding job at UPS has either forgotten what it is like, or is delusional. For PC drivers to make 4X what a loader/unloader does is criminal, a travesty.

To then have UPS management wonder why there is so much turnover and unrest in the ranks is nothing less than stupidity. As my daughter would say, "DUH!"

Us drivers here have swallowed hook, line and sinker the story we heard that we are worth it, we make more because we have gone thru the ranks, earned our stripes, we deserve it. Bullspit. If we were to be honest with ourselves, look inside ourselves, we know that we are paid a stupid-good wage for a job that is, let's face it, unskilled. We are lucky. We hit the lottery. We are like those who show disdain for those that sue for 10 billion bucks for spilling hot coffee on thier crotch, but are on the phone with 10 lawyers the moment it happens to them to try & cash in.

We cannot admit publicly the complete and total unfairness at UPS - that we are overpaid, and those that work just as hard, harder, are underpaid.

5 seconds after a particular member on this site reads this post, he will respond. He won't be able to help himself. He will say "well, everyone had a chance to vote on the contract, this is the contract you voted for", and to that I would say shame on you, and here is why;

When I started here, I knew it was a Union job. That is the extent of my understanding of unions. I knew I had to pay some of my paycheck to the unions to be employed by UPS. That is what I knew. I'm not stupid, and I'm not saying anyone just starting out at UPS is unintelligent (regarding Unions anyway). I'm saying if there is going to be a union, then the union has a duty, an absolute and complete obligation to represent ALL union brothers & sisters, MOST ESPECIALLY those that need the most help with a union contract, the new guy.

It is no secret that the starting wage is stupidly low, and driver wage is stupidly high. If the uniopn were to accomplish what they state thier mission is, this would not be the case.

I'm sorry, living, but you have hijacked this thread. Please feel free to start your own thread, so we can continue our discussion on Runners. Thanks!

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

W, you have finally said something worthwhile. Did I choose to work at UPS so that I could become a Teamster? No, but ours is a closed shop and that is part of the deal. You are exactly right in that I enjoy the benefits of the Union but, correct me if I am wrong, isn't it UPS that pays our Health and Welfare benefits and isn't it my $88/month that pays for my Union representation? As far as the supervisor part, yes, I have put my letter in on several occasions but, with 20 years in, it would make little sense for me to make that move at this point in my career. Besides, although we take our share of BS, they take that and much more and the last thing I want to do is end up like RB who, IMO, should walk in tomorrow morning and announce his retirement.

I find it hard to believe in a Union when guys like Chico keep getting their jobs back after all of the stupid stuff that they do.

You are right-UPS does pay into the Health and Welfare fund. Do you honestly believe that the amount would be even close to what it is now if you, I mean, we were non-union? Do you think the pension would be as good as it is if we were non-union? Granted, the numbers are not looking too rosy as far as the pension goes, but I guess that goes without saying these days.
Perhaps I am wrong on my assessment of you, but you put yourself out here like an open book, so it would seem to be fair game. I have seen many that carry on like you. They are very friendly with management and have all of the answers and are the best drivers in the world. And of course, they all are not fond of the union. Right up until they make a mistake and hope like heck that the union can get them out of it. As I said, maybe that is not your story, but it seems possible from reading your countless posts here. We can all be whomever or whatever we choose on the Internet. I am willing to bet that many are much different in real life than what they portray here.

[Bubblehead]

[quote=Livin the Dream?;504574]

Loaders / unloaders have a much more physically demanding job than ANYONE at UPS, and are paid less than starting wage at McDonalds. It is a harder job BY FAR (in my opinion) than driving a PC, by orders of magnitude. Anyone who argues that it is not the most physically demanding job at UPS has either forgotten what it is like, or is delusional. For PC drivers to make 4X what a loader/unloader does is criminal, a travesty.


You have it backwards.
It's a travesty that the loader/unloaders make 1/4 of what a PC driver makes.
As a PC driver I know that I earn and deserve every penny I receive.
As for which job is the most physically demanding?
I'll use the analogy of a sprinter vs. a marathon runner.
PTer's are all out go for 4hrs.
Drivers at least 8 maybe 12hrs a day.
It's really not fair to compare the two jobs.
PT loader/unloaders were never intended to be career employees.
That's why UPS always targets college students.
Drivers endure 20 to 35+ yrs of service to retire.
The part timers are without a doubt getting a raw deal.
The Teamsters should have negotiated them a better deal although the part timers do not flex their collective muscle.
They are the majority.
The company is now ultimately suffering the consequences in a substandard work force.

[Livin the Dream?]

Originally Posted by What'dyabringmetoday???

.... I am willing to bet that many are much different in real life than what they portray here....

I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body...

Steve, I didn't mean to hijack, I commented on a previous post in the thread (I used the quotes & everything!) Any other questions on forum etiquette, I'm assuming I should confer with you?