Runners......

[therookie]

I just don't understand. I am a driver on Long Island where we now have a lay-off list everyday. Friends of mine are on this list and are at home not making a dime. I saw one of my friends loading trucks and getting 4 hours a day. Needless to say these are tough times and its a sad situation for some of our union brothers. With all that in mind.... I look at the dispatch computer on Friday and there are 3 or 4 loads going out with 200+ stops. The runners who have these huge loads are all getting in around 1600/1700..... all the while they are complaining about how they are being "screwed". Why don't they understand that if they worked this job correctly, the stop count would come down???? If 4 loads of 200+ stops each lost 40 stops one of our union brothers is back on the road. This is the sad part...... It's like every man for themselves out here. And Management will NEVER follow on of these guys. I bet if they did they would find the bulkhead open, the car always running, No belt, etc. No instead they follow a driver who follows their methods......
Any thoughts on this?????
Is this going on in other centers?

[Big Babooba]

With telematics, management won't have to follow anybody to find the bulkhead door open the engine running at stops, the seatbelt not being used etc.

[NHDRVR]

The runners who have these huge loads are all getting in around 1600/1700..... all the while they are complaining about how they are being "screwed".


Sorry to hear that. We sort of police ourselves, in a way, when it comes to rooks running and gunning. BTW, I completely sympathize with you about the layoffs. When you have a family how is part-time work going to cut it?
I take it upon myself to pull some of these guys aside and tactfully explain to them that they only screw themselves in the end. The OT, the risk of injury, and finally the guy next to them. I know, I know, it doesn't matter unless they actually slow down but you may be surprised how many of these guys might just start taking 'all' of their lunch and then their breaks and on we go. I had to have an ankle injury my second year to realize what I was really doing.
And as you said-
Mngt. loves these drivers...
Key is in bulkhead and the bulkhead door is open (I could never figure that one out)..
Rarely uses a seatbelt...
Truck is left running sometimes...
Handrail? What's that??...
Feet never touch the stairs...
And I am the one who gets gigged on a Space/Vis when I grab the handrail with three fingers instead of my entire fist. I get written up for this after being watched for 30 minutes on road.
This happens in every center.

[UpstateNYUPSer]

Rook, you make some excellent points and, in theory, what you present does make sense; however, and I am sure STUG will back me up on this, it can be a very long and difficult process to go from a runner to a driver who does everything by the book and one that will put you smack dab in the middle of their radar. There are some drivers who simply do not want to work overtime, be it for whatever reason. We have a driver in my center who is punched out and gone by 1700-1730 every day. His wife has a good paying job, he has 2 young kids and he would rather be at home spending time with them than working overtime. We have another who has 3 kids who are all active in sports and he is also home early. That is their choice. Overtime is not mandated but is generally a given in this job. Each of them is easily giving $10K or more back to the company but that is the sacrifice that they are willing to and do make so that they can be with their families.

Now, what you say in theory is true. If the 3-4 runners in your center were to slow down and each lose 30-40 stops that would be another area added. We all know in reality that this is not going to happen, at least not overnight.

The one line in your post that stands out was this one:

It's like every man for themselves out here.

Sad to say, but that was one of the first words of advice given to me by my first on-car and words which I still live by every day. I do help other drivers when needed and try to do my part to help out the center but ultimately this is my job, the livelihood from which supports myself, my family and puts food on my table and clothes on my back and if that sounds selfish then so be it.

[NHDRVR]

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

Rook, you make some excellent points and, in theory, what you present does make sense; however, and I am sure STUG will back me up on this, it can be a very long and difficult process to go from a runner to a driver who does everything by the book and one that will put you smack dab in the middle of their radar. There are some drivers who simply do not want to work overtime, be it for whatever reason. We have a driver in my center who is punched out and gone by 1700-1730 every day. His wife has a good paying job, he has 2 young kids and he would rather be at home spending time with them than working overtime. We have another who has 3 kids who are all active in sports and he is also home early. That is their choice. Overtime is not mandated but is generally a given in this job. Each of them is easily giving $10K or more back to the company but that is the sacrifice that they are willing to and do make so that they can be with their families.

Now, what you say in theory is true. If the 3-4 runners in your center were to slow down and each lose 30-40 stops that would be another area added. We all know in reality that this is not going to happen, at least not overnight.

The one line in your post that stands out was this one:

It's like every man for themselves out here.

Sad to say, but that was one of the first words of advice given to me by my first on-car and words which I still live by every day. I do help other drivers when needed and try to do my part to help out the center but ultimately this is my job, the livelihood from which supports myself, my family and puts food on my table and clothes on my back and if that sounds selfish then so be it.

I use a hockey goaltender as an example of most of the drivers on my belt. After the PCM we are behind our trucks getting ready to leave, checking air etc., and if a pkg. comes our way we treat it like a shot-on-net.
It most certainly is every man for themself and I am one who is just trying to get home and see my kids.(6 and 4) I am fortunate in a way because I have been with the company for 20, live on my route, and we decided to wait a while to have kids so I get the vacations I want, days off, etc.,
This is one of those topics where you might not agree with a guy crushing his route but you have to respect his reasons why.

[therookie]

you're 100% right......... I don't understand. We ALL have families we would rather be home spending time with. There are younger guys laid off right now. That means that they can't feed their families. I believe that outweighes your need to get in.

What are we talking about here? an hour? C'mon. This is a union job. We get paid by the hour. We are the International BROTHERHOOD of teamsters. I think sometimes people forget the B part of IBT.

[NHDRVR]

Originally Posted by therookie

you're 100% right......... I don't understand. We ALL have families we would rather be home spending time with. There are younger guys laid off right now. That means that they can't feed their families. I believe that outweighes your need to get in.

What are we talking about here? an hour? C'mon. This is a union job. We get paid by the hour. We are the International BROTHERHOOD of teamsters. I think sometimes people forget the B part of IBT.

I agree completely.
After that though it's a matter of perspective. If someone wants to shatter their run to get home and see their kids and another decides to make sure he get's every well deserved penny into his paycheck to support his family...
Both are fine by me
And if my route gets a 20 stop split because someone drags their feet to suck up OT then I simply have to do my part to lose the work. This chain of events has been part of UPS for 102 years and it will not stop. CYA, be safe, get home and see your family. Works for me.

[Raw]

In our center UPS is really cracking down. 4 drivers already got fired and they have increased SPORH ( 1-4 stops per hour ) on most drivers and are holding them to it with progressive discipline that leads to dismissal. In these economic times things need to be done to cut cost. Good for us the teamsters settled our current contract a year early before the economy really hit the skids or we may have not gotten our raise or have to pay more for our benefits like AT&T is doing which is going to result in AT&T techs going on strike next month. We are not gauranteed anything in life and it bothers me when drivers think that all they have to do is show up and not perform and UPS will always take care of them. Times have changed. We may very well sink into a depression in 2010!

[NHDRVR]

Originally Posted by Raw

In our center UPS is really cracking down. 4 drivers already got fired and they have increased SPORH ( 1-4 stops per hour ) on most drivers and are holding them to it with progressive discipline that leads to dismissal. In these economic times things need to be done to cut cost. Good for us the teamsters settled our current contract a year early before the economy really hit the skids or we may have not gotten our raise or have to pay more for our benefits like AT&T is doing which is going to result in AT&T techs going on strike next month. We are not gauranteed anything in life and it bothers me when drivers think that all they have to do is show up and not perform and UPS will always take care of them. Times have changed. We may very well sink into a depression in 2010!

They were fired for SPORH problems? I assume they were OJS'd and were represented by a steward (so on and so forth). I have no idea who these people are but I would think that there is still a protocol that has to be given for termination. I hope that this is still being looked into. Knowing how hard we work, I would hate to see any driver fired because of a SPORH issue.

[Raw]

Originally Posted by NHDRVR

They were fired for SPORH problems? I assume they were OJS'd and were represented by a steward (so on and so forth). I have no idea who these people are but I would think that there is still a protocol that has to be given for termination. I hope that this is still being looked into. Knowing how hard we work, I would hate to see any driver fired because of a SPORH issue.

Not for SPORH but I assume that may of had something to do with it.

[Cobra Agent]

This to is happening in our center. However senior drivers have started filing 9.5 grievances and that has helped out the less senior drivers tremendously. Our center has cut 10 rts and I am lucky I know plenty of rts to suspend layoff for a while. We have 4 feeder drivers bumped down to package that has also affected us low senior guys. The feeder drivers were even allowed to bid on fulltime routes.I for one know that if things dont improve I will be back in the building it is only a matter of time.

The depth of ignorance that ups has astonishes me. 10 rts cut drivers are going out with 160-190 and it is like the old saying goes..."dont slit your throat to stop a nose bleed... And that is exactly what our center is doing. Routes are so spread out service is laughable.

Ex. Thursday I am on a split car 5 oclock i get a message that I "needed" to pick up the Ups store by 6. I called my supe and asked whose haribrained idea this was. I told him I am at lest 30 min away from the ups store. I still have 40 stops left by the time i drive all the way out there i will still have atleast 25 stops left. So you want me to pick up the ups store by 6 to drive back to my area by 630 finish by last 25 stops and expect me to make the air trailer by 7.....impossible.....So what do they do? Send another driver in the area to take my last 25 stops to free me up to do the ups store. When I get to the ups store at545 some one else was already there picking it up!!

Friday we had 5 drivers back in the building with 7-15 that were sheeted as missed because they were told by mgt they could not work over 9.5 since they filed grievances. There are not enough drivers on the street that could get these buisnesses because simply they do not have enough drivers dispatched that can be used as flex.

Routes are more spread out that ever we are having peak like dispatches and routes mostly are covering two and a half routes. and yet we being grilled over allowed this over allowed that. Ohh look here the telematics report shows that you sat idle for 5 min at this point without doing any thing can you expain that. We need you to take 20 buinesses off of X driver all the way across town and when you get there give him 20 of your resids so he can drive across town and help you when he is finished.


So why am i rambling, because I know I will be back in the building one day. Will it be because of"the economy" or because Ups is simply being ups so they will try to work us as dogs see how much work they can cram into a 10-11 hour day. I am averaging 55 hours a week and yet we have pt coverdivers who have been in the bld for month. I am exhausted all the time, My wife got laid off 2 months ago (not complaing) but I can pay all of our bills on 40 hours a week, I dont want 55 hours. but I keep my head up and Work safe and never forget to turn in my sales leads!

[New Englander]

Originally Posted by therookie

you're 100% right......... I don't understand. We ALL have families we would rather be home spending time with. There are younger guys laid off right now. That means that they can't feed their families. I believe that outweighes your need to get in.

What are we talking about here? an hour? C'mon. This is a union job. We get paid by the hour. We are the International BROTHERHOOD of teamsters. I think sometimes people forget the B part of IBT.

Nope, I personally don't care one bit. I myself have been laid off here at UPS MANY times the first few years. I put my time in doing that. Now I will work as efficiently as possible to get home to my kids.

Rookie, I'm guessing when management is volunteering unpaid weeks off - your hand is raised first to allow the younger drivers the opportunity to work?

[stevetheupsguy]

Originally Posted by therookie

I just don't understand. I am a driver on Long Island where we now have a lay-off list everyday. Friends of mine are on this list and are at home not making a dime. I saw one of my friends loading trucks and getting 4 hours a day. Needless to say these are tough times and its a sad situation for some of our union brothers. With all that in mind.... I look at the dispatch computer on Friday and there are 3 or 4 loads going out with 200+ stops. The runners who have these huge loads are all getting in around 1600/1700..... all the while they are complaining about how they are being "screwed". Why don't they understand that if they worked this job correctly, the stop count would come down???? If 4 loads of 200+ stops each lost 40 stops one of our union brothers is back on the road. This is the sad part...... It's like every man for themselves out here. And Management will NEVER follow on of these guys. I bet if they did they would find the bulkhead open, the car always running, No belt, etc. No instead they follow a driver who follows their methods......
Any thoughts on this?????
Is this going on in other centers?

Yes, and it's mandated by corporate. They want to pile drivers in our center with 162 stops per car, cutting as many cars as possible. I told my CM that this makes no sense. He said he got it straight from his boss. And as far as discipline goes, you're right, they never go after the runners till they kill someone.

Originally Posted by NHDRVR

The runners who have these huge loads are all getting in around 1600/1700..... all the while they are complaining about how they are being "screwed".



Sorry to hear that. We sort of police ourselves, in a way, when it comes to rooks running and gunning. BTW, I completely sympathize with you about the layoffs. When you have a family how is part-time work going to cut it?
I take it upon myself to pull some of these guys aside and tactfully explain to them that they only screw themselves in the end. The OT, the risk of injury, and finally the guy next to them. I know, I know, it doesn't matter unless they actually slow down but you may be surprised how many of these guys might just start taking 'all' of their lunch and then their breaks and on we go. I had to have an ankle injury my second year to realize what I was really doing.
And as you said-
Mngt. loves these drivers...
Key is in bulkhead and the bulkhead door is open (I could never figure that one out)..
Rarely uses a seatbelt...
Truck is left running sometimes...
Handrail? What's that??...
Feet never touch the stairs...
And I am the one who gets gigged on a Space/Vis when I grab the handrail with three fingers instead of my entire fist. I get written up for this after being watched for 30 minutes on road.
This happens in every center.

And the screwing will continue, as they continue to finish up early.

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

Rook, you make some excellent points and, in theory, what you present does make sense; however, and I am sure STUG will back me up on this, it can be a very long and difficult process to go from a runner to a driver who does everything by the book and one that will put you smack dab in the middle of their radar. There are some drivers who simply do not want to work overtime, be it for whatever reason. We have a driver in my center who is punched out and gone by 1700-1730 every day. His wife has a good paying job, he has 2 young kids and he would rather be at home spending time with them than working overtime. We have another who has 3 kids who are all active in sports and he is also home early. That is their choice. Overtime is not mandated but is generally a given in this job. Each of them is easily giving $10K or more back to the company but that is the sacrifice that they are willing to and do make so that they can be with their families.

Now, what you say in theory is true. If the 3-4 runners in your center were to slow down and each lose 30-40 stops that would be another area added. We all know in reality that this is not going to happen, at least not overnight.

The one line in your post that stands out was this one:

It's like every man for themselves out here.

Sad to say, but that was one of the first words of advice given to me by my first on-car and words which I still live by every day. I do help other drivers when needed and try to do my part to help out the center but ultimately this is my job, the livelihood from which supports myself, my family and puts food on my table and clothes on my back and if that sounds selfish then so be it.

And there you have it! UPS has you exactly where they want you, running like chickens with their heads cut off, and we'll remain this way till we pull the emergency brake and do things the right way.

Originally Posted by NHDRVR

I use a hockey goaltender as an example of most of the drivers on my belt. After the PCM we are behind our trucks getting ready to leave, checking air etc., and if a pkg. comes our way we treat it like a shot-on-net.
It most certainly is every man for themself and I am one who is just trying to get home and see my kids.(6 and 4) I am fortunate in a way because I have been with the company for 20, live on my route, and we decided to wait a while to have kids so I get the vacations I want, days off, etc.,
This is one of those topics where you might not agree with a guy crushing his route but you have to respect his reasons why.

It's like a seesaw, you try to find balance but you can't.

Originally Posted by therookie

you're 100% right......... I don't understand. We ALL have families we would rather be home spending time with. There are younger guys laid off right now. That means that they can't feed their families. I believe that outweighes your need to get in.

What are we talking about here? an hour? C'mon. This is a union job. We get paid by the hour. We are the International BROTHERHOOD of teamsters. I think sometimes people forget the B part of IBT.

It's not that they forget the B in IBT, it's that they see it this way,
IBT. Where are you at in Long Island? I grew up there, somewhat.

[Omega man]

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

That is their choice. Overtime is not mandated but is generally a given in this job. Each of them is easily giving $10K or more back to the company but that is the sacrifice that they are willing to and do make so that they can be with their families.

Sorry, but it is not their choice. We belong to a Union and are all expected to follow the rules equally. Violating our contract is never optional.

Now, what you say in theory is true. If the 3-4 runners in your center were to slow down and each lose 30-40 stops that would be another area added. We all know in reality that this is not going to happen, at least not overnight.

The one line in your post that stands out was this one:

It's like every man for themselves out here.

Sad to say, but that was one of the first words of advice given to me by my first on-car and words which I still live by every day. I do help other drivers when needed and try to do my part to help out the center but ultimately this is my job, the livelihood from which supports myself, my family and puts food on my table and clothes on my back and if that sounds selfish then so be it.

It is selfish and not the way a Union brother should be thinking. It is selfish people that divide us and make it easy for UPS to treat us badly.
We are only as strong as the weakest link.

[1989]

Originally Posted by therookie

I just don't understand. I am a driver on Long Island where we now have a lay-off list everyday. Friends of mine are on this list and are at home not making a dime. I saw one of my friends loading trucks and getting 4 hours a day. Needless to say these are tough times and its a sad situation for some of our union brothers. With all that in mind.... I look at the dispatch computer on Friday and there are 3 or 4 loads going out with 200+ stops. The runners who have these huge loads are all getting in around 1600/1700..... all the while they are complaining about how they are being "screwed". Why don't they understand that if they worked this job correctly, the stop count would come down???? If 4 loads of 200+ stops each lost 40 stops one of our union brothers is back on the road. This is the sad part...... It's like every man for themselves out here. And Management will NEVER follow on of these guys. I bet if they did they would find the bulkhead open, the car always running, No belt, etc. No instead they follow a driver who follows their methods......
Any thoughts on this?????
Is this going on in other centers?

17-21 sporh is a fair days work for a fair days pay. Not any more...6-12 sporh if you are out in the country. Explain to them if they are working off the clock they could be fired.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by therookie

I just don't understand. I am a driver on Long Island where we now have a lay-off list everyday. Friends of mine are on this list and are at home not making a dime. I saw one of my friends loading trucks and getting 4 hours a day. Needless to say these are tough times and its a sad situation for some of our union brothers. With all that in mind.... I look at the dispatch computer on Friday and there are 3 or 4 loads going out with 200+ stops. The runners who have these huge loads are all getting in around 1600/1700..... all the while they are complaining about how they are being "screwed". Why don't they understand that if they worked this job correctly, the stop count would come down???? If 4 loads of 200+ stops each lost 40 stops one of our union brothers is back on the road. This is the sad part...... It's like every man for themselves out here. And Management will NEVER follow on of these guys. I bet if they did they would find the bulkhead open, the car always running, No belt, etc. No instead they follow a driver who follows their methods......
Any thoughts on this?????
Is this going on in other centers?

Good idea Rookie. Lets all slow it down and bloat this pig with excess drivers so the company loses money and we all lose our jobs. I like the way you think.

[stevetheupsguy]

Originally Posted by tieguy

Good idea Rookie. Lets all slow it down and bloat this pig with excess drivers so the company loses money and we all lose our jobs. I like the way you think.

So you're saying that doing all of the methods, doesn't slow you down? Let's think about this a bit, tie. You go from maniac pace to sanity pace and you're saying there should be no change in SPORH?

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by stevetheupsguy

So you're saying that doing all of the methods, doesn't slow you down? Let's think about this a bit, tie. You go from maniac pace to sanity pace and you're saying there should be no change in SPORH?

Think about what? The rookie made a post suggesting everyone slow down so we have to work more drivers. My post is what it is. Steve its interesting watching the tone of you posts change. Are you trying to score points here with the hardcore union guys?

[stevetheupsguy]

Originally Posted by tieguy

Think about what? The rookie made a post suggesting everyone slow down so we have to work more drivers. My post is what it is. Steve its interesting watching the tone of you posts change. Are you trying to score points here with the hardcore union guys?

No I'm not trying to score points, as I'm my own man, and don't need to impress anyone. If you would have read all of my safety posts and other posts leading up to those, you'd understand where I'm coming from. I don't think that rookie is telling people to slow down for slowing down sake. I think rookie is saying that these people are not doing the methods, and are getting away with it, because they are helping mgmt get the "good" numbers.

What I said, was if these drivers did the methods, it would slow them down significantly, to the point where the numbers that show, would be the "real" numbers, not those that are skewed by running, skipping lunches, speeding, etc...

I'm still me, I'm just calling it like I see it. In my case, had I done the methods and gone by the book from the very start, the numbers on my route would read very differently. As it is now, I have screwed myself by running and getting done way early with whatever they gave me. I've had 160 stops off by 2:30 and that is something that my on-road supe never fails to remind me of, though he never questions how I could have done that in a safe manner.

[BIGBROWNLONGHORN]

This is funny we had 2 runners this week do aroute i just learned 2 weeks ago cold of course when i did it i run 40over to 30under they both skip lunch and run 1hour over with no lunch i take 1hour plus every dayi wait for ltr box iam not stealing time tie guy its all about how your trained period

[therookie]

Originally Posted by New Englander

Nope, I personally don't care one bit. I myself have been laid off here at UPS MANY times the first few years. I put my time in doing that.

Good for you! 2 wrongs always make a right! Way to be buddy!

Originally Posted by New Englander

Now I will work as efficiently as possible to get home to my kids.

As efficiently when OJS'd too? Hmmmm some how I doubt it. Soon you'll run yourself into the ground.

Originally Posted by New Englander

Rookie, I'm guessing when management is volunteering unpaid weeks off - your hand is raised first to allow the younger drivers the opportunity to work?

Nope.... Got to feed my family too. But Im not going to do 1 and a half days work in one day. Ever.

Originally Posted by stevetheupsguy

And there you have it! UPS has you exactly where they want you, running like chickens with their heads cut off, and we'll remain this way till we pull the emergency brake and do things the right way.

I couldn't agree with you more stevetheupsguy. By the way I'm from the Patchogue Ctr.

Originally Posted by tieguy

Good idea Rookie. Lets all slow it down and bloat this pig with excess drivers so the company loses money and we all lose our jobs. I like the way you think.

You sir.... are just missing my point. Im saying work the way your supposed to. Work as if they are sitting right next to you in that jump seat. Thats all.

Bottom line.......
Doing 200+ stops everyday is just dumb.

[whiskey]

You hit nail on the head with your thread Steve.

[big_arrow_up]

My favorite is when the runners keep getting more and more work and say that they are going to lay down (they say "stay out") as a way of protesting. Its usually BS though and they still come in early. On the rare occasion that they actually do this they actually end up running the route closer to the way its supposed to be run anyway. They think that they are proving a point but the rest of us haven't quite figured out what it is yet.

[Bubblehead]

The issue is easily reduced to the age old analogy of "someone trying to have their cake and eat it to".
Management preaches safety, then ignores the most obvious offenders.
In bonus centers these drivers are rewarded for cheating the system.
In a post PAS center, there is no way you can run scratch observing every method they preach.
If you think you can then your missing a few.

As for the runners, if they stop, all of them, they will be all right.
One at a time and they are more vulnerable.
All of them at the same time and routes will have to be added.
Union shop. Its about the greater good for all.
Fair days work for a fair days pay.
No more no less.
We all play by their rules, we all make a lot of money.

[screamin chicken]

it's like that here also, but metro drivers are only doing 140-160 which is still way to much. These guys that are doing that many stops, and complaining about it are just going to keep having those loads, and management is acting like there your best friend, and then when they are not around the management is laughing at how much they are slamming them, and how they have have lay offs. I think about myself now and how I can make more money, all the running I used to do made have 140-160 on a reg. day.