long term telematics experience ???

[Braveheart]

People need to realize they will fire you for not following methods. You can have perfect service, perfect seatbelt, perfect bulk head door and still be fired.

The thing is that even the most honest of drivers slips up and puts the seatbelt on as the car is pulling from a stop, shuts the bulk head door as pulling away, forgets the e-brake once a week and so forth.

Does not matter that you have 5-10-15 years of safe driving.

They have been nit-picking our drivers for key on wrong hand, not checking tire tread depth, forgetting your 5 stops even though you know the next 2 or 3, so on and so forth.

We have multiple drivers fired right now for failing to follow instructions.

The war is here now. Make the union stand up or replace them with another union!

These last two contracts have failed to add protections for us, given them concessions and in some ways added loop holes to fire us.

I have seen more terminations in the last 5 years than I did in the 10 years prior.

[Dagoof]

we dont have telematics yet but I think they are getting ready. 3 day sup rides that determine how many stops per hour. I think part of it is how bad the time study is. Trying to get every driver under an hour over for the week. I average 6 hours a week over. Good luck getting 5 hours a week knocked off of it. I do the rte the way it should be done seat belt bulkhead 3 points. However I think that I will have a big target on my big dirty P1200.

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by SuperSup

Forget the union. You should be be kissing EEOC's *****, since they're the reason we have to hire the occasional "mentally challenged" person.

Ohhhhh, now that explains a lot, like how you got your job. Thanks for the info.

[dilligaf]

I found out on fri that we are supposed to be getting tele' some time next year. I just chuckled. If it works out the same as when we were supposed to get PAS, we won't get tele' for at least another 2 yrs.


Nice job Sober, 'up the corporate ladder', LMAO!

Hellfire, if you'd break up that post a little better, I might have read the whole thing. Take some tips from Sober and few others. Use paragraphs.

[hellfire]

Originally Posted by dilligaf

I found out on fri that we are supposed to be getting tele' some time next year. I just chuckled. If it works out the same as when we were supposed to get PAS, we won't get tele' for at least another 2 yrs.


Nice job Sober, 'up the corporate ladder', LMAO!

Hellfire, if you'd break up that post a little better, I might have read the whole thing. Take some tips from Sober and few others. Use paragraphs.

that was a cut and paste of the original article from brown..........

[dilligaf]

Originally Posted by hellfire

that was a cut and paste of the original article from brown..........

Oh, I see.

[UpstateNYUPSer]

Originally Posted by hellfire

that was a cut and paste of the original article from brown..........

Breaking it up in to paragraphs would have made for an easier read.

[govols019]

he was also intentionally trying to sabotage the operation by keeping so strictly to trace even when it made sense at times to break it.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[stevetheupsguy]

Originally Posted by hellfire

I've been having some interesting conversations with drivers about the new Telematics system. It turns out that the Denver Metro South building is the first building in the Rocky Mountains to get the new system. What I find most interesting when I talk to these people is the level of fear I hear in their voices and see in their eyes.

Many of these drivers have really never experienced the severe harassment the company is capable of, because they kept that, all magical production over/under number, in line. They have been able to rob, cheat , and steal, (and some just actually had a decent time study), in order to make that number.

Now they live in great fear, because the boss has taken away their bag of tricks. The interesting thing is the way the company is going to implement the system. The regular center managers are not even looking at the system. It's I.E. that goes over all of the information, then sends a packet down to the managers and says "hey, look at what your dirt bag driver is doing, clean it up!" The manager is then forced to deal with what ordinarily would not be a problem.

Most drivers do their job. When they get held up by a customer, or a traffic delay, or any of the myriad of things that can happen through they day, they just automatically hurry up to get back on track for the day. Most drivers know what is expected of them, and they simply care, and do their job. Now they'll get beat up no matter what.

Not only is the company taking all of the incentive away to make up time, they intend to discipline drivers even though they maintain an acceptable level of production. They will discipline for excessive speed. They will discipline for improper backing. They will discipline for bulkhead doors being open. They will then go back and discipline for any excessive, (in their eyes), lost time that shows up on the report. Their attitude being that any lost time is a theft from the company.

I have decided to adjust my Lord and Master Theory in name only. The stupidvisor, (who could never have done this job in the first place), that sits behind the computer, is now the Tyrant and Master. He or she is the guy with the whip. Back to the fear I see. I have no prediction how the new technology will play out on a day to day basis. My feeling is that it's a new toy, that will be totally abused by the zealot management of this company to justify the cost and expense of the system, and to make a name for themselves.

Eventually I feel that new people coming in will be trained in beating the system, but for now the existing driver is left to wonder what the hell the Tyrant and Master will nail them for today. I feel it is going to be the first major cause of turnover in the driver ranks I've seen in thirty years. People are not going to deal with the stress daily and quit.

I also feel that the turnover will come from the company using the system to kill off the people that simply can't change years of habit. Of course the most interesting thing to watch is what will happen to the already fearful, jump and run, hotdogger, who are the reason and cause of the system being implemented. The problem I see is that the union has no teeth.

The system can simply be used, and the discipline given, without much intervention. What am I, (as a steward), supposed to say? It's all right there on the paper. The new system weakens our union within UPS more than any other technology. It makes the Union obsolete. There will be nothing to discuss.

My feeling is that our contract has just been reduced to a useless book. Nothing in there applies to life at UPS under Telematics. The only usable language will be the hours languages. The company has established that anyone can be disciplined under "other serious offenses", for anything, and that is where they will go. That is where the drivers will be marched out the door.

You will see the company attempt to create a 2 tiered system of pay in the next contract with their idea being that they can properly train the new driver to function under the system better than they can adjust the behavior of the current crop of drivers. That, along with a reduction in pay and benefits, will give them the incentive to clean house on the old drivers using the system.

We will have Red Circle drivers, (the guys that survived somehow). Again all of this is based on todays situation. My hope is that someone smarter than me within the Union will see the writing on the wall, and be planning for the possibility of the future. My doubts come because I have continued to watch our reactionary union system, move slow as molasses, to respond to the changing technology within our industry.

The corporatist that run our company are way ahead of our union with their plans for the future. Ok enough gloom and doom. My feeling about what may change all of the above is the rank and file, that will be forced into becoming solid Union people. Hopefully they will turn to the Union as their only means of protection, and that is their only hope for the future. The Union loses touch with its rank and file members unless the rank and file have an occasion to rise up, usually to counteract abuse of some form or another.

Our Union (in my opinion), should be down there several times a week to let the people know where to turn. It will also educate our Union officers to the issues involved with the new Technologies. That will help when the day comes to negotiate our contracts. Their being around will also give our members a sense of safety, and will show our members who they can turn to. Whom they can count on when they are afraid.

It can be one of the most important Union strengthening techniques available to our officers. It will strengthen the officers Politically within the Union, as well as strengthening the Union in the negotiating process. If the officers don't jump on the bandwagon that is presented before them, the Union will become a footnote in history. I've seen them rise to the occasion before. Let us hope we see it again.

Is this better? I had a hard time reading it, as well.

[55andout?]

Simply put: Telematics is latin for "those with nothing to hide have nothing to worry about." Or is that Korean?

[705red]

I just wonder when ups will come out with their supervisor version of telematics?

[local804]

Originally Posted by 705red

I just wonder when ups will come out with their supervisor version of telematics?

With telematics, the 1 supervisor to 5 workers ratio can now be doubled thus saving the company millions.

[Hangingon]

Originally Posted by Schnellfahrer

our numbers have dropped on the average of 2 sporh

2 SPORH center wide isn't bad. I would have thought it'd drop more at least at the start.

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by 55andout?

Simply put: Telematics is latin for "those with nothing to hide have nothing to worry about." Or is that Korean?

Since I don't know for certain your mindset on this post I am going to guess that you are being funny while making a point. The point being the underlined portion.
On the surface, you are correct, but this can(and probably will) be taken much deeper. The Telematics system does not take into consideration that a misload can cause a driver to "circle the block" or go off trace to provide service. I know that a simple explanation can smooth it out, but we all know that in some circumstances the explanation is not accepted. And yeah, that is something even a driver with nothing to hide has to worry about.

[Jones]

Originally Posted by 55andout?

Simply put: Telematics is latin for "those with nothing to hide have nothing to worry about." Or is that Korean?

I suspect a Japanese proverb is going to be more applicable:

"The nail that sticks up gets hammered down."

[rod]

at least it isn't the one about "women who fly upside down in airplane have -------

[55andout?]

Originally Posted by 705red

I just wonder when ups will come out with their supervisor version of telematics?

Are you trying to suggest something?

[705red]

Originally Posted by 55andout?

Are you trying to suggest something?

Absolutely! How many times have you heard a sup say that hes going out for a while only to call it a day and head home?

Im not throwing stones at you personally, as i would buy you a beer if i ever ran in to you at a bar. I have never had any problems with you in the past minus of course that high speed chase you put me through when we were following you sups working a couple of years ago.

I am not scared of telematics! I wear my seat belt, i close my door, i do the job as close to the book as one can.

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by BrownDotCom

Hey Folks; Thanks for passing along my article. The little problem you guys are missing is that the company can use this system to make any case they want. How many of you remember every detail of every day. They intend to discipline for theft of time. That time may be the guy on the phone, or the driver stuck in traffic etc. If they want you they can now get you. It also raises the level of retaliation for people the stups. don't like. I love the you's that are all about me. Your the ones that are going to get it first. The run and jump and hump and dump dudes. You all better get a clue to this system as fast as you can. It's way more than simply doing your job. Thanks for throwing our stuff at Brown up here, and thanks for all of the comments. We have much more to talk about on our blog, and we are forever looking for more information. We love hearing from you all whatever side you may be on. Just care about someone more than yourself!

Maybe you missed what I've posted before...

1500 drivers have been using the system for over a year. So far, minimal discipline. One termination that I'm aware of.

When you say "They intend to discipline for theft of time." I guess that's true. If the system shows blatent theft of time, yes we should discipline.

The intent of the system however is NOT to discipline.

It is NOT "way more than simply doing your job" as you say.

Fasten your seat belt
Close your bulkhead door
Minimize backing, especially in residential neighborhoods
Dont speed
Drive efficiently between stops
Don't violate lunch / break rules (including when, where, and how long)

You can't be disciplined for not remembering a simple delay. No one is worried about "the guy on the phone, or the driver stuck in traffic" as you say.

However, I've looked at a tremendous amount of telematics driver data from my area.

When I see a driver take a 2 hour lunch, or drive 8 miles between stops 1 mile apart, or driver 10 miles off area, I have a responsibility to discuss this with the driver.

I don't support a supervisor that abuses the system. You shouldn't support a driver that behaves in the way I just mentioned.

P-Man

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by DenverBrownDotCom

The problem I see it is you have the expectation that all the sups. are reasonable thinking people. We haven't even had the system for a month and threats for discipline have been made without anyone even knowing how to use the system. Maybe you live in a better world in your centers, but that isn't the case here. Yes as a safety improvement system it will work. Backing, speed, etc. But the intention is also production related, and the company intends to be ruthless in it's use. Sounds like you want people to buy a bag of crap as gold. Usual supervisor song and dance. I don't mean to bang you personally, I've watched 30+ years of this stuff come down the pike. It will be used and abused, and the guys that don't get it will be gone. Believe it or not.

I've been around 30 years as well. This is an excellent system. The intent IS to eliminate production problems as I mentioned in the last post. Its intent is NOT to be "ruthless" as you contend.

So far, (1500 driver days) the evidence backs up my claim. I don't know what your supervisors are going to do. I hope they do not abuse the system.

Also, from my view drivers can also use the system for their advantage. You can use it to ensure that one driver is not knit picked while others are allowed to violate policy.

Information is power. And it can be power for both UPS and the union.

I've seen the system used to prove that a driver lied about his / her actions. I've also seen it used to prove that a driver properly followed procedures.

It can work both ways. If its used poorly in your site, I don't condone that. This doesn't mean that the company intent is to "retaliate".

P-Man

[soberups]

Originally Posted by DenverBrownDotCom

... The little problem you guys are missing is that the company can use this system to make any case they want. How many of you remember every detail of every day. They intend to discipline for theft of time. That time may be the guy on the phone, or the driver stuck in traffic etc. If they want you they can now get you. "

Whenever we are questioned about Telematics data, simply recite these three simple words;

"I dont recall"

They cant fire you for dishonesty if you keep your mouth shut. Your words cannot be twisted around if you decline to participate in the conversation. And the Telematics data by itself cannot be used for disciplinary purposes, per Article 6 of the national master agreement.

If the company wants to go after people for perceived theft-of-time issues, we can retaliate by simply shutting our brains off, delivering 100% according to EDD, and allowing the route to fall apart. EDD and PAS give us the ability to put total responsibility for the success or failure of the route right back into managements lap. They are the smart ones; they designed the system; they know at all times where we are, how many stops we have left, and the "optimimum" trace for delivering those stops as efficiently as possible. We are just dumb truck drivers and it would be foolish of us to question their superior intellect. Blind obedience and 100% compliance to managements directives takes all the stress and worry off of us. If they want us to be mindless drones who follow their instructions to the nth degree, it is now a simple matter for us to oblige them.

[Smhemi]

Peak season is going to be very interesting then going out with 300 stops and telematics

[hellfire]

Originally Posted by Smhemi

Peak season is going to be very interesting then going out with 300 stops and telematics

yup,, gonna be interesting,, i wonder about the level of enforcement during peak-- how many of the older dudes here have been riding shot-gun with a on road or center manager on those ' need help covering this route you dont know ' type days and having the bulkhead door wide open, you standing there in front of the jump seat no seat belt on,,,, waiting to stop to go running to the door, sup havin no belt on gettin the next stop with the truck running,,,, methods are great in theory,, lets see how the production numbers are affected ,, that will decide if this IE nightmare goes company wide and stays permanent

[soberups]

Originally Posted by hellfire

yup,, gonna be interesting,, i wonder about the level of enforcement during peak--

Nothing has changed in terms of enforcement...in order to discipline a driver, management is going to have to be out on area making direct observations of your behavior. You could do half your route with the bulkhead door open and unless they go out and actually catch you in the act it doesnt matter what the Telematics report says. Its just a piece of paper. If your management has time, they might say something to you....and your response will simply be "I dont recall."

I'm not advocating working with the door open or violating any other safety rules. The reality, however, is that during peak there are going to be lots of Telematics reports printed out with lots of colored lines on maps indicating vehicles that moved with their doors open. Life will go on.

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by DenverBrownDotCom

Yah hellfire; they'll just pile the stuff in the cab. The seat belt sensor isn't on the jump seat so they'll just run and go. Also no one knows any better if no pulls up the information. That's what I was telling P-Man superdupersupervisor. The company controls the information. You will only see what they want you to see. Nothing more. There is no benefit to the driver unless they chose to give it to you, (which they won't if they want to get on your ass!)

Of course you only seem to hear part of what I post.

1500 drivers using the system for over a year prove my point. The vast majority of the drivers have zero issues. There are a few that got disciplined and the majority of those corrected behavior.

Telematics also does more than monitor production. It does automotive analysis.

As I said, supervisor will use it inappropriately somewhere. I will NOT condone that. Post those occurences, and I will support your position.

I would expect you would support the management usage that corrects improper behavior.

Just do the job right. There will be no problem.

You can speculate all you want about what will happen. I would rather deal with the facts than speculation. Time will tell.

P-Man