long term telematics experience ???

[hellfire]

look at the horror story this guy is creating---i could not link to the story directly ,, its on this site tho http://blog.denverbrown.com/
A Lifetime of Fear

I've been having some interesting conversations with drivers about the new Telematics system. It turns out that the Denver Metro South building is the first building in the Rocky Mountains to get the new system. What I find most interesting when I talk to these people is the level of fear I hear in their voices and see in their eyes. Many of these drivers have really never experienced the severe harassment the company is capable of, because they kept that, all magical production over/under number, in line. They have been able to rob, cheat , and steal, (and some just actually had a decent time study), in order to make that number. Now they live in great fear, because the boss has taken away their bag of tricks. The interesting thing is the way the company is going to implement the system. The regular center managers are not even looking at the system. It's I.E. that goes over all of the information, then sends a packet down to the managers and says "hey, look at what your dirt bag driver is doing, clean it up!" The manager is then forced to deal with what ordinarily would not be a problem. Most drivers do their job. When they get held up by a customer, or a traffic delay, or any of the myriad of things that can happen through they day, they just automatically hurry up to get back on track for the day. Most drivers know what is expected of them, and they simply care, and do their job. Now they'll get beat up no matter what. Not only is the company taking all of the incentive away to make up time, they intend to discipline drivers even though they maintain an acceptable level of production. They will discipline for excessive speed. They will discipline for improper backing. They will discipline for bulkhead doors being open. They will then go back and discipline for any excessive, (in their eyes), lost time that shows up on the report. Their attitude being that any lost time is a theft from the company. I have decided to adjust my Lord and Master Theory in name only. The stupidvisor, (who could never have done this job in the first place), that sits behind the computer, is now the Tyrant and Master. He or she is the guy with the whip. Back to the fear I see. I have no prediction how the new technology will play out on a day to day basis. My feeling is that it's a new toy, that will be totally abused by the zealot management of this company to justify the cost and expense of the system, and to make a name for themselves. Eventually I feel that new people coming in will be trained in beating the system, but for now the existing driver is left to wonder what the hell the Tyrant and Master will nail them for today. I feel it is going to be the first major cause of turnover in the driver ranks I've seen in thirty years. People are not going to deal with the stress daily and quit. I also feel that the turnover will come from the company using the system to kill off the people that simply can't change years of habit. Of course the most interesting thing to watch is what will happen to the already fearful, jump and run, hotdogger, who are the reason and cause of the system being implemented. The problem I see is that the union has no teeth. The system can simply be used, and the discipline given, without much intervention. What am I, (as a steward), supposed to say? It's all right there on the paper. The new system weakens our union within UPS more than any other technology. It makes the Union obsolete. There will be nothing to discuss. My feeling is that our contract has just been reduced to a useless book. Nothing in there applies to life at UPS under Telematics. The only usable language will be the hours languages. The company has established that anyone can be disciplined under "other serious offenses", for anything, and that is where they will go. That is where the drivers will be marched out the door. You will see the company attempt to create a 2 tiered system of pay in the next contract with their idea being that they can properly train the new driver to function under the system better than they can adjust the behavior of the current crop of drivers. That, along with a reduction in pay and benefits, will give them the incentive to clean house on the old drivers using the system. We will have Red Circle drivers, (the guys that survived somehow). Again all of this is based on todays situation. My hope is that someone smarter than me within the Union will see the writing on the wall, and be planning for the possibility of the future. My doubts come because I have continued to watch our reactionary union system, move slow as molasses, to respond to the changing technology within our industry. The corporatist that run our company are way ahead of our union with their plans for the future. Ok enough gloom and doom. My feeling about what may change all of the above is the rank and file, that will be forced into becoming solid Union people. Hopefully they will turn to the Union as their only means of protection, and that is their only hope for the future. The Union loses touch with its rank and file members unless the rank and file have an occasion to rise up, usually to counteract abuse of some form or another. Our Union (in my opinion), should be down there several times a week to let the people know where to turn. It will also educate our Union officers to the issues involved with the new Technologies. That will help when the day comes to negotiate our contracts. Their being around will also give our members a sense of safety, and will show our members who they can turn to. Whom they can count on when they are afraid. It can be one of the most important Union strengthening techniques available to our officers. It will strengthen the officers Politically within the Union, as well as strengthening the Union in the negotiating process. If the officers don't jump on the bandwagon that is presented before them, the Union will become a footnote in history. I've seen them rise to the occasion before. Let us hope we see it again.
It's time.


South Building Drivers Contact Local 455

Everyone Else Contact your local Union and ask them for help

[Schnellfahrer]

We got Telematics about a month ago. All drivers in my center at least have changed their habits really quickly, no more bulk head door open, seat belts on at all times, so on and so forth. Now the company is coming after us about production, our numbers have dropped on the average of 2 sporh, as I tell management when ever they ask me about my production I just let them know I'm giving my 100% and performing the methods and they can't say a thing about it.

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by Schnellfahrer

We got Telematics about a month ago. All drivers in my center at least have changed their habits really quickly, no more bulk head door open, seat belts on at all times, so on and so forth. Now the company is coming after us about production, our numbers have dropped on the average of 2 sporh, as I tell management when ever they ask me about my production I just let them know I'm giving my 100% and performing the methods and they can't say a thing about it.

Telematics will show them the miles you are driving and travel path. You should ensure that you are taking an efficient path between stops.

I've seen lots of drivers that have excess miles. That is the area that management will be looking at.

P-Man

[local804]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

Telematics will show them the miles you are driving and travel path. You should ensure that you are taking an efficient path between stops.

I've seen lots of drivers that have excess miles. That is the area that management will be looking at.

P-Man

Well as long as PAS/EDD is being followed they could look in another directon, agree?

[brownman15]

Originally Posted by local804

Well as long as PAS/EDD is being followed they could look in another directon, agree?

thats why now that we are telematics i follow trace pretty close 2 100% even though it adds 10 to 20 miles to my day, so if they say anything about my travel path it is there fault not mine. some drivers have been told to be at 96% trace or better

[local804]

Yup cya

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by local804

Well as long as PAS/EDD is being followed they could look in another directon, agree?

Yes, but that's not what I meant.

I believe that if management gives you a poor trace in EDD, that is management's fault. They should fix the trace, which is easy to do.

What I have seen with Telematics is some drivers who drive too many miles between stops. For instance, I've seen cases of driving 8 miles between two stops that were only 1 mile apart.

My point was that management will begin looking for things like this. Just drive efficiently betwen EDD stops and you are fine.

P-Man

[soberups]

I take the opposite view of the original poster. I have been on PAS/EDD for approx. 4 years and on Telematics for a couple of months.

I take the view that these two systems are a rope that we as drivers can allow the company to hang itself with i it so chooses.

If the company chooses to harass me over production I can choose to shut my brain off, stop even trying to make smart decisions, and simply run the route 100% "their way" according to EDD.

If they want that number bad enough I will quite happily shove that number about 4 feet up their ass and they aren't going to like that number very much any more.

A driver who follows EDD 100% and is 100% compliant on seat belt and bulkhead door issues is going to be virtually impossible to fire for anything as long as he is honest about his lunch and breaks, which he should have been anyway. Bear in mind that the contract prohibits the use of GPS or telematics data for disciplinary purposes.

Also bear in mind that harassment works both ways and that a united and militant group of drivers who stick together can make their manager far more miserable than their manager can make them....all while being 100% compliant with every single method, policy, procedure and instruction that UPS chooses to impose upon them.

The Telematics system basically creates a level of transparency that did not exist before. Transparency is a wonderful thing, especially if you are like me and never had anything to hide in the first place.

[UpstateNYUPSer]

Originally Posted by soberups

The Telematics system basically creates a level of transparency that did not exist before. Transparency is a wonderful thing, especially if you are like me and never had anything to hide in the first place.

Telematics perfectly summed up in 2 sentences.

[Jones]

Originally Posted by soberups

Bear in mind that the contract prohibits the use of GPS or telematics data for disciplinary purposes.

Not anymore:

Article 6
Section 4
(8) No employee shall be discharged on a first offense if such discharge is based solely upon
information received from GPS or any successor system unless he/she engages in dishonesty
(defined for the purposes of this paragraph as any act or omission by an employee where he/she
intends to defraud the Company).

In other words you can be terminated, on a first offense, using information gained solely from the DIAD, as long as the company alleges dishonesty. And when have you seen them not allege dishonesty?

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by soberups

I take the opposite view of the original poster. I have been on PAS/EDD for approx. 4 years and on Telematics for a couple of months.

I take the view that these two systems are a rope that we as drivers can allow the company to hang itself with i it so chooses.

If the company chooses to harass me over production I can choose to shut my brain off, stop even trying to make smart decisions, and simply run the route 100% "their way" according to EDD.

If they want that number bad enough I will quite happily shove that number about 4 feet up their ass and they aren't going to like that number very much any more.

A driver who follows EDD 100% and is 100% compliant on seat belt and bulkhead door issues is going to be virtually impossible to fire for anything as long as he is honest about his lunch and breaks, which he should have been anyway. Bear in mind that the contract prohibits the use of GPS or telematics data for disciplinary purposes.

Also bear in mind that harassment works both ways and that a united and militant group of drivers who stick together can make their manager far more miserable than their manager can make them....all while being 100% compliant with every single method, policy, procedure and instruction that UPS chooses to impose upon them.

The Telematics system basically creates a level of transparency that did not exist before. Transparency is a wonderful thing, especially if you are like me and never had anything to hide in the first place.

Sober:

I believe that information is powerful.

This gives management information, but it ALSO gives the union information that can be used to their advantage (as you posted).

I only wish that both groups use this new power for good instead of evil.

P-Man

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

Sober:

I believe that information is powerful.

This gives management information, but it ALSO gives the union information that can be used to their advantage (as you posted).

I only wish that both groups use this new power for good instead of evil.

P-Man

P-man I think we all know that that will not happen, at least system wide.

[soberups]

Originally Posted by Jones

Not anymore:
In other words you can be terminated, on a first offense, using information gained solely from the DIAD, as long as the company alleges dishonesty. And when have you seen them not allege dishonesty?

The company has always had the ability to terminate anyone immediately by charging them with dishonesty, since dishonesty is a cardinal infraction that falls outside of the requirement for progressive discipline. Telematics hasnt changed that.

The company can alledge dishonesty, but they still must prove it at panel or in front of an arbitrator in order for the termination to be upheld. If the termination is proven to be unfounded, the company can be made to pay back wages. Telematics hasnt changed that, either.

Furthermore, the contract language you quote also specifically defines dishonesty as "any act or omission by an employee where he/she intends to defraud the Company".

The fact that the company will be required to prove intent on the part of the employee in order for the termination to be upheld will discourage the company from pursuing such cases unless it is abundantly clear that the employee is deliberately ripping them off. Simply proving that an action occured is easy....proving the intent of that action can be quite a bit more difficult unless the action is quite blatant.

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

P-man I think we all know that that will not happen, at least system wide.

Trpl:

Nothing ever happens system wide. I guaranty that some stupid supervisor or manager will use the system improperly.

I also guaranty that a driver will push an issue inappropriately.

However, I believe in the vast majority of managers and hourlies that want to do a good job.

P-Man

[trplnkl]

When telematics goes full force in our center, I know of seveal routes that are gonna be a huge nightmare. One for instance, there is no way to get all the businesses delivered on time without going into the area at least twice during the day. Businesses and residentals in the same block, some of the businesses close early, others late, 12:00-1300 lucnh closers, pickups stops miles away in the country surrounded by resi deliveries, a meet point for outgoing to get back to the building in time. A total logistic nightmare. I have personally done all I can do to get the edd loaded in a manner that one can stay close to 75% trace but then the system kicks 15-20% of the changes that need to be made out and no one will admit they know how to fix it.

The following part has nothing to do with telematics or edd but still irritates me.
The funny thing is, when I was running that route for the reg driver out on comp, 70 stops, 3-4 cods max, 20 or so pickup pkgs in 9 PU stps and 260 miles would underD the route. Now that the reg driver is back, 66 stps...257 miles with everything else close to the same, is almost a 9 hour day. I just don't understand that.

[bamaupser]

Wow, if you take a look at all the quotes, really all you are being asked is to do your job. Maybe if we all act like the highest paid delivery drivers in the world, telematics will go unnoticed. It is not a big deal for me.

Originally Posted by hellfire

look at the horror story this guy is creating---i could not link to the story directly ,, its on this site tho http://blog.denverbrown.com/
A Lifetime of Fear

I've been having some interesting conversations with drivers about the new Telematics system. It turns out that the Denver Metro South building is the first building in the Rocky Mountains to get the new system. What I find most interesting when I talk to these people is the level of fear I hear in their voices and see in their eyes. Many of these drivers have really never experienced the severe harassment the company is capable of, because they kept that, all magical production over/under number, in line. They have been able to rob, cheat , and steal, (and some just actually had a decent time study), in order to make that number. Now they live in great fear, because the boss has taken away their bag of tricks. The interesting thing is the way the company is going to implement the system. The regular center managers are not even looking at the system. It's I.E. that goes over all of the information, then sends a packet down to the managers and says "hey, look at what your dirt bag driver is doing, clean it up!" The manager is then forced to deal with what ordinarily would not be a problem. Most drivers do their job. When they get held up by a customer, or a traffic delay, or any of the myriad of things that can happen through they day, they just automatically hurry up to get back on track for the day. Most drivers know what is expected of them, and they simply care, and do their job. Now they'll get beat up no matter what. Not only is the company taking all of the incentive away to make up time, they intend to discipline drivers even though they maintain an acceptable level of production. They will discipline for excessive speed. They will discipline for improper backing. They will discipline for bulkhead doors being open. They will then go back and discipline for any excessive, (in their eyes), lost time that shows up on the report. Their attitude being that any lost time is a theft from the company. I have decided to adjust my Lord and Master Theory in name only. The stupidvisor, (who could never have done this job in the first place), that sits behind the computer, is now the Tyrant and Master. He or she is the guy with the whip. Back to the fear I see. I have no prediction how the new technology will play out on a day to day basis. My feeling is that it's a new toy, that will be totally abused by the zealot management of this company to justify the cost and expense of the system, and to make a name for themselves. Eventually I feel that new people coming in will be trained in beating the system, but for now the existing driver is left to wonder what the hell the Tyrant and Master will nail them for today. I feel it is going to be the first major cause of turnover in the driver ranks I've seen in thirty years. People are not going to deal with the stress daily and quit. I also feel that the turnover will come from the company using the system to kill off the people that simply can't change years of habit. Of course the most interesting thing to watch is what will happen to the already fearful, jump and run, hotdogger, who are the reason and cause of the system being implemented. The problem I see is that the union has no teeth. The system can simply be used, and the discipline given, without much intervention. What am I, (as a steward), supposed to say? It's all right there on the paper. The new system weakens our union within UPS more than any other technology. It makes the Union obsolete. There will be nothing to discuss. My feeling is that our contract has just been reduced to a useless book. Nothing in there applies to life at UPS under Telematics. The only usable language will be the hours languages. The company has established that anyone can be disciplined under "other serious offenses", for anything, and that is where they will go. That is where the drivers will be marched out the door. You will see the company attempt to create a 2 tiered system of pay in the next contract with their idea being that they can properly train the new driver to function under the system better than they can adjust the behavior of the current crop of drivers. That, along with a reduction in pay and benefits, will give them the incentive to clean house on the old drivers using the system. We will have Red Circle drivers, (the guys that survived somehow). Again all of this is based on todays situation. My hope is that someone smarter than me within the Union will see the writing on the wall, and be planning for the possibility of the future. My doubts come because I have continued to watch our reactionary union system, move slow as molasses, to respond to the changing technology within our industry. The corporatist that run our company are way ahead of our union with their plans for the future. Ok enough gloom and doom. My feeling about what may change all of the above is the rank and file, that will be forced into becoming solid Union people. Hopefully they will turn to the Union as their only means of protection, and that is their only hope for the future. The Union loses touch with its rank and file members unless the rank and file have an occasion to rise up, usually to counteract abuse of some form or another. Our Union (in my opinion), should be down there several times a week to let the people know where to turn. It will also educate our Union officers to the issues involved with the new Technologies. That will help when the day comes to negotiate our contracts. Their being around will also give our members a sense of safety, and will show our members who they can turn to. Whom they can count on when they are afraid. It can be one of the most important Union strengthening techniques available to our officers. It will strengthen the officers Politically within the Union, as well as strengthening the Union in the negotiating process. If the officers don't jump on the bandwagon that is presented before them, the Union will become a footnote in history. I've seen them rise to the occasion before. Let us hope we see it again.
It's time.


South Building Drivers Contact Local 455

Everyone Else Contact your local Union and ask them for help

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

Trpl:

Nothing ever happens system wide. I guaranty that some stupid supervisor or manager will use the system improperly.

I also guaranty that a driver will push an issue inappropriately.
I don't disagree with either statement P-Man. However, when a driver pushes and issue inappropriately, management has many chances to get "even". When it's management that goes out of bounds, they only have to win once and the driver has no place to go.

However, I believe in the vast majority of managers and hourlies that want to do a good job.
I so wish I had the same faith in fair and honesty actions as you.

P-Man

[soberups]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

When telematics goes full force in our center, I know of seveal routes that are gonna be a huge nightmare. .

They will be a huge nightmare....for management.

They dont have to be a nightmare at all....for the drivers.

The beauty of PAS/EDD/Telematics is that it has basically turned each route into a paint-by-the-numbers picture. All we as drivers have to do is follow the numbers and dont paint outside of the lines. There doesnt have to be any stress as long as we choose not to try adding any of our own personal touches to the painting.

And the best part is, it doesnt matter a bit just how ugly that painting turns out. It doesnt have to be art, and we dont have to sell it. Its on management to figure out why the damn thing winds up looking like something Picasso painted on a bad acid trip.

We just need to clock out, wash the paint off of our hands, collect our pay and go home. Leave the worrying to the suits who make the big bucks.

[SuperSup]

Originally Posted by soberups

They will be a huge nightmare....for management.

They dont have to be a nightmare at all....for the drivers.

The beauty of PAS/EDD/Telematics is that it has basically turned each route into a paint-by-the-numbers picture. All we as drivers have to do is follow the numbers and dont paint outside of the lines. There doesnt have to be any stress as long as we choose not to try adding any of our own personal touches to the painting.

And the best part is, it doesnt matter a bit just how ugly that painting turns out. It doesnt have to be art, and we dont have to sell it. Its on management to figure out why the damn thing winds up looking like something Picasso painted on a bad acid trip.

We just need to clock out, wash the paint off of our hands, collect our pay and go home. Leave the worrying to the suits who make the big bucks.

Forget the union. You should be be kissing EEOC's *****, since they're the reason we have to hire the occasional "mentally challenged" person.

[soberups]

Originally Posted by SuperSup

Forget the union. You should be be kissing EEOC's *****, since they're the reason we have to hire the occasional "mentally challenged" person.

Its not the initial hiring that creates the problems, its the way they keep promoting them higher and higher up the corporate ladder.

[stevetheupsguy]

Originally Posted by soberups

Its not the initial hiring that creates the problems, its the way they keep promoting them higher and higher up the corporate ladder.

TOUCHÉ!

[SuperSup]

Originally Posted by stevetheupsguy

TOUCHÉ!

Was that a typo? Hitting T instead of D to describe sober?

[evilleace]

Yah that was hilarious StupidSup

[City Driver]

the girl with the worried look on her face mid sentence made me laugh out loud

[JimJimmyJames]

A driver in my former center was harrassed for not following trace as well as the company says he should. The next day he follows trace 100%. Though he did not deviate at all from trace, the next day he was told he was at 90% + and that he was also intentionally trying to sabotage the operation by keeping so strictly to trace even when it made sense at times to break it.

The only good thing that came out of this nonsense is that they stopped bothering him about running the route the way he did before they started to harrass him.