Non Union Members

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by Fnix

Europe is almost %80 union and they have a higher standard of living then us Americans. The rest of the world? Do you mean South America, Africa, Asia? They do not live in the same neighborhoods as us and have terrible working/living qualities.

I'm sorry I have family in europe and I can honestly tell you that you would find thier standard of living unacceptable compared to ours. Many of you that I speak to here or on the side would not be able to afford a house and property comparable to what you own here. Thier socialized health care plan is one where you wait a year to get required surgery that is then performed by a doctor with inferior skills to what we have here. My cousin still carries a hideous scar on his abdomen from his state provided surgery. Unionism is another form of socialism. Socialism plain and simple sucks.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by 705red

This is a big problem and why unions are weak! The blood sucking leeches that do not pay dues but reap the same benefits as dues payers. Legally the union has to represent the employee if the employee asks for representation.



The company spin master at his best! Bravo Tie, I haven't seen this much B.S out of you in a while, that is until I scrolled down a little!



I'm in a center of 78 drivers and a building that has close to 400 package car. There is not 1 driver in my center that i have not sat in on for one reason or another, mostly b.s. I represent more good employees for making a simple mistake here and there, which will happen eventually. We are HUMAN beings and do make mistakes from time to time. We are not programmed robots like the management team!




Most of the world benefits form the union being around! Before unions, you did not have paid vacations, paid holidays, over time pay, medical benefits, pensions, 401ks, etc no one even new what a weekend was until unions created it!



Operational management gets more frustrated with their labor department over the contract. Here when we negotiated the contract we had working members like myself and others that do the job on a daily basis on our negotiating team. While ups had only labor reps, and finance guys. They had no one from everyday operations.

The sups that are really pissed because they cant fire someone just because they do not like them are the ones that have no integrity anyways!

And Bravo back my red headed friend tdu has corrupted your mind and soul. Shall I call and exorcist so you may once again learn to enjoy the benifits of independent thought?

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by 705red

We where watching the shop, and in doing so we caught ups shop lifting right out of the pockets of the retiree's! The only thing we did not have was the surveillance video of the act in progress.

But you still claim that we as employees do not need a union! Really? Look at what ups does when they know we have an agency to protect our rights! What would ups do if it was every man for themselves?

Red I'm sorry its true. You guys were supposed to watch the shop and secure a deal that did not require court action. Once court action is required they really did not need you. They can hire a lawyer just as easily as you can. Still dissapointed you did not have the guts to carry through on all your big threats when this first came out. Oh well it sounded good anyway.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by 705red

LMFAO! How much of a raise did you get this year? How's that 401k match going? How much of last years stock can you sell this year? How much do you pay for medical?

Your right tie its better to be non union! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Roflmao. Enjoy while you can. I have a couple hundred grand in my 401 K plan. last time I checked ups put about 45 percent of that money in there. How much did they put in your 401 K plan my friend.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahhahaahahaha hhahahahhahahahahahahahahah

Better yet mr. union representative be a man and tell your union brothers why the union refuses to negotiate a match for thier people.

whats that the union wants to control the money.

ooops sorry union members guess we'll just screw you out of a good retirement so the union can control the pension money.
thank red everyone hes the one fighting for the union.

[Fnix]

Originally Posted by tieguy

I'm sorry I have family in europe and I can honestly tell you that you would find thier standard of living unacceptable compared to ours. Many of you that I speak to here or on the side would not be able to afford a house and property comparable to what you own here. Thier socialized health care plan is one where you wait a year to get required surgery that is then performed by a doctor with inferior skills to what we have here. My cousin still carries a hideous scar on his abdomen from his state provided surgery. Unionism is another form of socialism. Socialism plain and simple sucks.

Dont recall seeing any slums in Germany. Everyone had the same quality of living whether they were a baker or a doctor. There were no polar extremes in living quality like here.

[local804]

Originally Posted by Fnix

Dont recall seeing any slums in Germany. Everyone had the same quality of living whether they were a baker or a doctor. There were no polar extremes in living quality like here.

I like in Italy that the town shuts down for a few hours for dinner. No work, just family time. When dinner is over, they go back to work. I guess thats why they say Italians make better lovers.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by Fnix

Dont recall seeing any slums in Germany. Everyone had the same quality of living whether they were a baker or a doctor. There were no polar extremes in living quality like here.

I stand corrected if paying half your check to the state and suffering through inferior health care and paying an arm and a leg for a small house with a tiny yard next to a factory is your idea of a superior lifestyle then you're good. I am curious though will you be selling everything you have and moving to take advantage of this superior lifestyle?

[bluehdmc]

Originally Posted by tieguy

Roflmao. Enjoy while you can. I have a couple hundred grand in my 401 K plan. last time I checked ups put about 45 percent of that money in there. How much did they put in your 401 K plan my friend.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahhahaahahaha hhahahahhahahahahahahahahah

Better yet mr. union representative be a man and tell your union brothers why the union refuses to negotiate a match for thier people.

whats that the union wants to control the money.

ooops sorry union members guess we'll just screw you out of a good retirement so the union can control the pension money.
thank red everyone hes the one fighting for the union.

Ask the ex-enron employees about 401k plans, yes your's may be better. Also you've mentioned "portability" but how many years do you have to be in before the companies match is vested.
Also I kind think the days of unions giving pension funds to the mob are pretty much over.
You mentioned how well you and your neighbors have it. A couple of them are engineers. As far as I know engineers, unless they run a locomotive are professionals and usually make much more than a "blue" (or brown) collar worker. I would think so if he can afford a $300K addition to his home.
I don't believe most union workers can afford that sort of thing.
You keep trying to compare yourself to the union worker. By your own identity you are "tieguy", maybe I'm wrong but I'm assuming you're in a management position. They traditionally are not union positions. Basically the only "professionals" that are in a union are teachers. Do you think many of them would "opt out" of their union?
You are really trying to compare your and your neighbors postions, (apples) to the working mans, rank and file. (oranges). There are no comparisons. Package car drivers, feeder drivers, loaders, mechanics, porters, etc that work for UPS are all involved in physical labor, yes there is a certain mental aspect to it, but overall that kind of work can be quantified by how many stops, miles, pm's, packages loaded, toilets cleaned, etc.

Managements work can't be judged that way, other standards are used, granted packages delivered is the overall goal, but the building engineer is judged by wether everthing works that's supposed to. LP is judged by what isn't lost. Automotive managers are judged by breakdowns or lack there of. Sales people are judge by lead sold etc.

You can't compare the two.
The original poster complained that the union was representing two non-union workers. I still have not gotten an answer as to whether or not non union individuals pay a representation fee? Usually this is the case, it is not as much as full dues, and they are not allowed to vote for stewards, etc.

As to your comments about "inferior health care", consider yourself lucky that a: you haven,t suffered any severe illnesses. b: you haven't been a victim of malpractice.
I've experienced both, have had to wait long times in doctors offices, (do they do this intentionally, or just overbook?)

Ask someone who's lost their job, and can't afford cobra payments about health care, and whether they might want socialized medicine.

Although I'll grant you we have this huge work force around the health care industry, the insurance companies, the pharmaceutical companies, the lobbyists for the pharmaceutical companies and the insurance companies.

Of course you don't have to go far to compare socialized medicine, just ask any Canadian about it. Maybe if you have to go to a specialist there may be waits and problems, but for the sniffles etc, I don't see them rushing across the border.

[pickup]

Originally Posted by tieguy

I have EEOC for age discrimination. I have Osha for health or working condition issues. I have a grievance process that can go all the way to an impartial arbitrator. I have lawyers to sue the company if I choose to bypass the arbitration process. I have a benifity package that is superior to what the overall union package would provide me. why the heck would I possibly want a union so I can recieve less and pay them union dues?

Your example happened in a union shop. Its actually an example of how your driver did not get what he paid for in that union shop. So you're right he paid the union his dues all those years and was short changed by them when it came time to deliver.

Its an argument against unionism trp not for it.

Isn't EEOC a result of governmental legislation and don't you interpret e.e.o.c as unwarranted interference with the way a business conducts its operations? Also, osha is another governmental agency under the aegis of the labor department. It is also well known that the osha does not have enough inspectors to thoroughly police industry but instead its greatest impact comes from the complaints of workers. And workers are more likely to call osha if they are protected by a union and/if they can use a shop steward (who has the testicular fortitude , knowledge and experience) to file the complaint for them.

I am surprised that you are relying on these government interfering laws to protect yourself.(given your implied political leanings) One can argue that it increases the cost of business which makes it more attractive to locate your business (if you can ) in another country that does not have all this "petty and unnecessary" legislation. After all, maybe one day ups would like to get rid of you because you reached a certain age at which there studies show managers lose their efficiency,i.e. grow long in the tooth. Yet you would use e.e.o.c to counter their wishes to treat you as an at will employee. If you are relying on e.e.o.c for your protection , be sure to include a mental thanks to the labor movement( of which the "hated unions" were and are an integral part) . Same goes for osha.

Respectfully submitted tie guy, ( i may not agree with all your posts, but you're a pretty good writer)

[Smhemi]

Mr TieGuy I Have a ? for You. If you were offered a Job by Fedex and Ups To be a full time driver, what job would you take and why.I Have a funny feeling Mr anti union will take the union job

[1989]

Originally Posted by Smhemi

If you were offered a Job by Fedex and Ups To be a full time driver, what job would you take and why.

Yes, UPS pays above the market prices for it's labor. Yet the union caps what the employee makes.

[Jones]

Originally Posted by 1989

Yes, UPS pays above the market prices for it's labor. Yet the union caps what the employee makes.

Actually, the company sets that cap during the contract negotiations. What the union does is get the company to set that cap higher than they would otherwise.

[brownmonster]

I believe the wages in the contract are minimums. The company is free to raise them at any time.

[local804]

Originally Posted by 1989

Yes, UPS pays above the market prices for it's labor. Yet the union caps what the employee makes.

We used to get $1000 bonus every year, remember that?

[pudg00]

In CA. I worked for a const. company. $450 per month for health insurance. Anybody paid for health ins. lately? I do not know of any company where you can make $70,000 a year after 3 yrs. I made a good living in const. but UPS has given me more in my short time than 9 yrs. in management at my previous employer.

[Fnix]

Originally Posted by tieguy

I stand corrected if paying half your check to the state and suffering through inferior health care and paying an arm and a leg for a small house with a tiny yard next to a factory is your idea of a superior lifestyle then you're good. I am curious though will you be selling everything you have and moving to take advantage of this superior lifestyle?

Your views intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your news letter. My relatives have nice flats in Berlin, they are not near any factories and they had new Audis and did not seem to have any financial woes. They were engineers though. And my elder relatives in bavara had single homes in the mountains.

[1989]

Originally Posted by brownmonster

I believe the wages in the contract are minimums. The company is free to raise them at any time.

True, but if the company pays you more, they have to pay a deadbeat like myself the same.

[tieguy]

[QUOTE=bluehdmc;514575]Ask the ex-enron employees about 401k plans,

mine is not vested in enron.

yes your's may be better. Also you've mentioned "portability" but how many years do you have to be in before the companies match is vested.

huh? Its instantaneous, I put in 3 percent they put in 3 percent.

Also I kind think the days of unions giving pension funds to the mob are pretty much over.

hope so.

You mentioned how well you and your neighbors have it. A couple of them are engineers. As far as I know engineers, unless they run a locomotive are professionals and usually make much more than a "blue" (or brown) collar worker. I would think so if he can afford a $300K addition to his home.

whats the difference. they earned thier money and early retirement without the help of a union.

I don't believe most union workers can afford that sort of thing.

You agree with me.

You keep trying to compare yourself to the union worker.

No I don't I keep making the point that the union has not done as much for people as they want you to believe.

By your own identity you are "tieguy", maybe I'm wrong but I'm assuming you're in a management position.

you've been assuming a lot this one you got right.

They traditionally are not union positions. Basically the only "professionals" that are in a union are teachers. Do you think many of them would "opt out" of their union?

They should teachers dont make ****. another example supporting my point that unions have not done that much.

You are really trying to compare your and your neighbors postions, (apples) to the working mans, rank and file. (oranges).

The folks across the street from me are blue collar in every way except they don't have a union. You're rambling now and obviously did not pay attention.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by pickup

I am surprised that you are relying on these government interfering laws to protect yourself

I guess I should have clarified. The point is that there are many government agencies and options now that thus create less of a need for a union.

My example is not unique. Many union free companies now offer some type of grievance process.

Osha , NLRB and EEOC are all there to help those who feel they need them. Thus the unions primary purpose now has been reduced to the collective bargaining process.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by brownmonster

I believe the wages in the contract are minimums. The company is free to raise them at any time.

the production levels we ask for are also minimums. Feel free to raise yours anytime you feel froggy.

[MonavieLeaker]

Originally Posted by local804

Times have changed since you have worked in the barn my friend. The runners and gunners have been yanked in the office just like the rest of the folks. Everything from not signing a call tag to missing the hand rail while entering the car. A driver got pulled in because all of his sick days were used and he took 3 days off to take his son out of state to a specialist. Driver had proof where he was, didnt matter. The gestapos are all trying to justify the job they hold and one is trying to out do the other. Our binding contract would never be enforced if we didnt have a union and your company would take every last drop of blood from our bodies if you had the chance to do so.

+1

[bluehdmc]

[quote=tieguy;514528]Roflmao. Enjoy while you can. I have a couple hundred grand in my 401 K plan. last time I checked ups put about 45 percent of that money in there. How much did they put in your 401 K plan my friend.



[QUOTE=tieguy;514651]

Originally Posted by bluehdmc

Ask the ex-enron employees about 401k plans,

mine is not vested in enron.

Lucky you, I bet there are some people that wished there's wasn't either

yes your's may be better. Also you've mentioned "portability" but how many years do you have to be in before the companies match is vested.

huh? Its instantaneous, I put in 3 percent they put in 3 percent.
My ex-wife worked for an employer the would contribute to the 401K but if you left before a certain time period, (either 3 or 5 yrs) you had to give back "their" contributions, (you could keep the earnings though)
It's called vesting, not all 401k's vest from day 1, if your's does good for you.

Also I kind think the days of unions giving pension funds to the mob are pretty much over.

hope so.

You mentioned how well you and your neighbors have it. A couple of them are engineers. As far as I know engineers, unless they run a locomotive are professionals and usually make much more than a "blue" (or brown) collar worker. I would think so if he can afford a $300K addition to his home.

whats the difference. they earned thier money and early retirement without the help of a union.

I don't believe most union workers can afford that sort of thing.

You agree with me.

In this particular instance yes, only because most union workers ARE NOT professionals. A college degree is not required for most union jobs either. (but I think it is for engineers, except the locomotive ones).

You keep trying to compare yourself to the union worker.

No I don't I keep making the point that the union has not done as much for people as they want you to believe.

I look at what unions, (or union employment) has done for me, not as you say what they want me to believe. I've worked union and non union, and much prefer the pay and benefits in the union employment.

By your own identity you are "tieguy", maybe I'm wrong but I'm assuming you're in a management position.

you've been assuming a lot this one you got right.

They traditionally are not union positions. Basically the only "professionals" that are in a union are teachers. Do you think many of them would "opt out" of their union?

They should teachers dont make ****. another example supporting my point that unions have not done that much.

Maybe where you live teachers don't do well, they seem to do pretty well in Northern NJ. Plus only work 180 days a year, get reimbursed for continuing education, (which also increases their salaries as they accumulate more credits and degrees.) Very good health benefits, pension after 20yrs, etc.

You are really trying to compare your and your neighbors postions, (apples) to the working mans, rank and file. (oranges).

The folks across the street from me are blue collar in every way except they don't have a union. You're rambling now and obviously did not pay attention.

How are the people across the street "blue collar in every way except they don't have a union". Being in a union doesn't necessarily make you bluecollar, and being bluecollar doesn't necessarily make you "union".

[local804]

Originally Posted by bluehdmc

Basically the only "professionals" that are in a union are teachers. Do you think many of them would "opt out" of their union?

Unions do not stop at teachers. Lets not forget about doctors, nurses, police ect.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by local804

Unions do not stop at teachers. Lets not forget about doctors, nurses, police ect.

i don't know any doctors that belong to a union.

What the unions have done for police and teachers is disgraceful.

[local804]

Originally Posted by tieguy

i don't know any doctors that belong to a union.

What the unions have done for police and teachers is disgraceful.

Police department in NY(mine)
Discraceful? How about UPS wanting a part time America, that isnt discraceful? Not too shabby for a union policeman.
Upstate NY had a group of doctors join the teamsters. I remember reading it in our monthly magazine. I will look around the house for it.

SALARY
2007 starting base salary for a Police Officer is $57,811. With five (5) years of service, the base salary is $97,958*. These figures do not include paid benefits.

BENEFITS
Full salary and benefits during entire training period.
Paid family dental, optical and medical plans.

Longevity pay increments begin after five (5) years of service.

Fifteen (15) paid vacation days first year of service, increasing to twenty-seven (27) days after five (5) years of service.

Thirteen (13) sick leave days first year of service, increasing to twenty-six (26) days after the first three (3) years of service. Unused sick leave days are cumulative.
* Under 2007 labor agreement