Non Union Members

[UPSNewbie]

Originally Posted by local804

Police department in NY(mine)
Discraceful? How about UPS wanting a part time America, that isnt discraceful? Not too shabby for a union policeman.
Upstate NY had a group of doctors join the teamsters. I remember reading it in our monthly magazine. I will look around the house for it.
SALARY
2007 starting base salary for a Police Officer is $57,811. With five (5) years of service, the base salary is $97,958*. These figures do not include paid benefits.

BENEFITS
Full salary and benefits during entire training period.
Paid family dental, optical and medical plans.

Longevity pay increments begin after five (5) years of service.

Fifteen (15) paid vacation days first year of service, increasing to twenty-seven (27) days after five (5) years of service.

Thirteen (13) sick leave days first year of service, increasing to twenty-six (26) days after the first three (3) years of service. Unused sick leave days are cumulative.
* Under 2007 labor agreement

If only teachers made that. I would be extremely happy, since I'm working on my teaching certificate.

[local804]

Originally Posted by UPSNewbie

If only teachers made that. I would be extremely happy, since I'm working on my teaching certificate.

Our teacher are pretty close to the police salary. Not too bad working till 3 and 9 months out of the year(Long Island). They are very well compensated and do an outstanding job.

good luck newb

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by UPSNewbie

If only teachers made that. I would be extremely happy, since I'm working on my teaching certificate.

keep in mind that they also pay some of the highest taxes and highest prices in the country. that would be good money if it was anyone other then new york.

[UPSNewbie]

Originally Posted by tieguy

keep in mind that they also pay some of the highest taxes and highest prices in the country. that would be good money if it was anyone other then new york.

Very true. Oklahoma is 48th in the US with average teacher pay. I'm going to get the hell out of here.

[pickup]

Originally Posted by tieguy

keep in mind that they also pay some of the highest taxes and highest prices in the country. that would be good money if it was anyone other then new york.

that in addition to the fact that the ny state and local governments(who can't print money like the feds) are broke and are threatening the unions of their employees with pension and healthcare cuts(i.e workers contribute more to their healthcare) . If they don't give back on those two fronts, then there will supposedly be layoffs.

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by tieguy

I have EEOC for age discrimination. I have Osha for health or working condition issues. I have a grievance process that can go all the way to an impartial arbitrator. I have lawyers to sue the company if I choose to bypass the arbitration process. I have a benifity package that is superior to what the overall union package would provide me. why the heck would I possibly want a union so I can recieve less and pay them union dues?

Your example happened in a union shop. Its actually an example of how your driver did not get what he paid for in that union shop. So you're right he paid the union his dues all those years and was short changed by them when it came time to deliver.

Its an argument against unionism trp not for it.

That's just craaaazy Tie. It is an argument that the center manager has zero integrity. There would have been no problem at all if the CM had been a stand up guy and there would be no reason for the union to do anything. Without the union that 30 year driver would not have had a job period. Keep twisting Tie, I hear your hero Chubby Checker is making a come back.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

That's just craaaazy Tie. It is an argument that the center manager has zero integrity. There would have been no problem at all if the CM had been a stand up guy and there would be no reason for the union to do anything. Without the union that 30 year driver would not have had a job period. Keep twisting Tie, I hear your hero Chubby Checker is making a come back.

No the fact is you present a case where you claim the driver was clearly wronged by the company.

if this is true and the union did not get a full and complete vindication then what good was the union doing the man.

He did not get what he paid them for therefore your thank the union argument has no merit.

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by tieguy

No the fact is you present a case where you claim the driver was clearly wronged by the company.
That's what I said, Clearly the CM has the same integrity level as most CMs(that I have known)
This should have never happened to begin with, which makes the union necessary. Thank you for helping me prove my point.

if this is true and the union did not get a full and complete vindication then what good was the union doing the man.
No if's about it, it is true. The union did get his job back, but the driver himself made the decision not to go to arbitration for his own reasons. One being that he didn't have enough confidence that the arbitrator would roll with his side.

He did not get what he paid them for therefore your thank the union argument has no merit.
I know I should not have confused you with two different points in the same story, I apologize.
Point one. The union got his job back, with out the union he would not have even gotten that, period.
Point two. The union here does not have a strong history in regards to back pay, thus making it more obvious that something needs to be done.

[UpstateNYUPSer]

Originally Posted by tieguy

keep in mind that they also pay some of the highest taxes and highest prices in the country. that would be good money if it was anyone other then downstate new york.

The salaries that you mention would be good money up here in upstate NY. I gross about $70K and live a comfortable life.

[tieguy]

No if's about it, it is true. The union did get his job back, but the driver himself made the decision not to go to arbitration for his own reasons. One being that he didn't have enough confidence that the arbitrator would roll with his side

If he did not have enough confidence then he was not clean on this one.

Trp there is a chance you don't know all the details.

there is a chance that your driver did not do what the CM told him to do?

If I know I'm totally clean on this one and I'm a couple months away from retirement I go for the full monty. If nothing else I work out of the hall for a couple of months until I can retire.

[brownmonster]

Teachers in my small town make 73K if they have a Masters. Cops about 55K.

[blue efficacy]

Originally Posted by tieguy

teamsters are pushing for a bill to pass that has been mislabeled the free choice bill. If passed it would allow them to hold public votes for unionization. What this means is it would allow them to see who voted for the union and who did not. Once they get that info they can then harrass those who voted against unionization into voting for it. They expect the bill to pass making it much easier to organize those non-union folks. So basically what they are doing is a little marketing to show the non-union folks the benifits of joining. Since people who do thier job do not need unions they off course decided to represent these screw ups.

Of course the Employee Free Choice act still allows for employees to use a secret ballot election if they so desire.

[blue efficacy]

Originally Posted by tieguy

Socialism plain and simple sucks.

Okay Tie, let's get rid of our socialized police department. If you cannot afford private security, I am sure you'll enjoy the extremely high crime rate that comes as a result.

Also, let's get rid of our socialized park system. Who needs parks anyway? They are a total waste of space.

Oh, and that socialized fire department? Seems like such a waste of tax dollars to provide a service that saves properties and keeps fires from engulfing entire cities.

So many people are so quick to bash "socialism" while failing to understand what it actually means for them.

There are plenty of things that it just makes sense for them to be provided for everyone by the government, with tax dollars, because they serve the common good. Health care is one of those things, IMO.

Some of the highest life expectancies of the world, as well as some of the best quality of life, is found in democratic socialist countries, such as Sweden.

If you truly think socialism is bad, just imagine what the US would be like without it. It would not be pretty, I assure you. Socialism is what separates us from the third world, plain and simple.

You don't want socialism? Somalia is a perfect example of a country with no socialism whatsoever. Feel free to move there.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by blue efficacy

Okay Tie, let's get rid of our socialized police department. If you cannot afford private security, I am sure you'll enjoy the extremely high crime rate that comes as a result.

Also, let's get rid of our socialized park system. Who needs parks anyway? They are a total waste of space.

Oh, and that socialized fire department? Seems like such a waste of tax dollars to provide a service that saves properties and keeps fires from engulfing entire cities.

So many people are so quick to bash "socialism" while failing to understand what it actually means for them.

There are plenty of things that it just makes sense for them to be provided for everyone by the government, with tax dollars, because they serve the common good. Health care is one of those things, IMO.

Some of the highest life expectancies of the world, as well as some of the best quality of life, is found in democratic socialist countries, such as Sweden.

If you truly think socialism is bad, just imagine what the US would be like without it. It would not be pretty, I assure you. Socialism is what separates us from the third world, plain and simple.

You don't want socialism? Somalia is a perfect example of a country with no socialism whatsoever. Feel free to move there.

No thanks. I think I'm entitled to live here and protest socialism. Eliminating socialism or an excess of socialism does not have to lead to total lawlessness.

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by tieguy

No if's about it, it is true. The union did get his job back, but the driver himself made the decision not to go to arbitration for his own reasons. One being that he didn't have enough confidence that the arbitrator would roll with his side

If he did not have enough confidence then he was not clean on this one.
You have no idea what you are talking about.

Trp there is a chance you don't know all the details.
There is even a greater chance you only know the details I have posted. 100% chance I would say. I know, I know...in your vast experiences every driver lies about everything, hogwash.

there is a chance that your driver did not do what the CM told him to do?
There is even a greater chance that he did. You don't know this man, I know him pretty well. In the 23 years I have known him I have never caught him in a lie, nor have I ever heard anyone else say that he was being less than 100% truthful. That is all I need to know. Although, I saw the copies of the reports where he estimated his miles, I ran his route and saw the odometer never turn and the DVIR where he had written it up every day.
When they went to panel the CM claimed he didn't know a thing about the issue of est. miles( I was told by someone that was there). In the office the OMS said different( I heard this first hand), but the OMS never went to panel.

If I know I'm totally clean on this one and I'm a couple months away from retirement I go for the full monty. If nothing else I work out of the hall for a couple of months until I can retire.

I hate to break it to you, but there are alot of things you may do that no one in their right mind would do. That doesn't make your way right for anyone else but you. I probably would have held out for the arbitration also, but I don't pay his bills and I don't live his life. He is the only one that can make those decisions.
But none of this speculation on your part changes the fact that the company,via the CM, exhibited no sense of integrity, making the Union's defense a nessacary evil.

[blue efficacy]

Originally Posted by tieguy

No thanks. I think I'm entitled to live here and protest socialism. Eliminating socialism or an excess of socialism does not have to lead to total lawlessness.

The idea of a taxpayer funded police force is a socialist idea.

Therefore, if you are for eliminating socialism, you are for eliminating the police force.

Would this lead to total lawlessness? How could it not?

[1989]

Originally Posted by blue efficacy

The idea of a taxpayer funded police force is a socialist idea.

Therefore, if you are for eliminating socialism, you are for eliminating the police force.

Would this lead to total lawlessness? How could it not?

You could fund anything more efficiently by not putting it in a taxpayer fund.

The neighborhood I used to live in wanted to hire two or three police officers to patrol the neighborhood 24/7 (through the HOA - a neighborhood of about 1300 houses) The city said no. We got stuck with a security company.

[satellitedriver]

Originally Posted by blue efficacy

The idea of a taxpayer funded police force is a socialist idea.

Therefore, if you are for eliminating socialism, you are for eliminating the police force.

Would this lead to total lawlessness? How could it not?

Blue,
You need to learn the concept of socialistic theory.
It is not about paying for the basic infrastructure, of a society.
I love Margret Thatchers quote;
"The only problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other peoples money."
A socialist idea and socialism are two distinct and separate ideologies.