Package Driver shoots dog

[Feederdrivermack]

Originally Posted by bubsdad

This is not just a UPS policy. Federal regulations prohibit you from having a loaded, concealed weapon in a commercial vehicle.

Not too sure about this one Bub. Do you have a part or section number on this violation?

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by redshift1

In the lawsuit-happy society we live in I cant really blame UPS for its no-weapons rule, although I wish that there was some way for those of us with carry permits to purchase our own liability insurance coverage that would shield UPS from litigation in case we had to defend ourselves.

There must be literally thousands and thousands of times a UPS driver needed a gun to protect himself.

I'd much rather have one and never need it than to need one just once and not have it.

[UpstateNYUPSer]

There must be literally thousands and thousands of times a UPS driver needed a gun to protect himself.[/QUOTE]

I have yet to encounter one and will have to question my career choice if I were to ever encounter one.

[Jones]

Originally Posted by redshift1

There must be literally thousands and thousands of times a UPS driver needed a gun to protect himself.

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUpser

I have yet to encounter one and will have to question my career choice if I were to ever encounter one.

I'm guessing he was being facetious.

[Livin the Dream?]

Originally Posted by soberups

...That being said, the assertion that "carrying a gun while wearing browns is a catastrophe waiting to happen" is nothing more than ignorant fear-mongering.

I have had a concealed handgun permit for over 12 years. On many occasions I have been armed---off the clock and off UPS property---after work while still wearing browns. No catastrophe has occured.

Contrary to popular liberal beliefs, the posession of a gun does not turn the bearer into a psychotic maniac. 200 million gun owners didnt kill anyone today.....

Sober - I enjoy your posts - they are intelligent, thought provoking, and add value to the site. It is difficult for me to believe you did not understand what I wrote, so let me try again, in more detail-

Anyone going to work as a driver at UPS that is carrying a handgun while on the job is a catastrophe waiting to happen. I believe that strongly.

I dare say the problem with most people either wishing to carry or who do carry a handgun is the concept of progression - a handgun should leave its' holster only if someone will die / be extremely hurt if it is not. The problem, and I would say the majority of the time, is that handgun owners pull their gun out when they see people on the street, 20 feet away, that they don't like the looks of.

A good example is when I was back in High school. Fistfights. You had a beef, you beat each other up, one person won. Now adays people just point & shoot.

Read some of the posts in this thread. If they are not being sarcastic (and I hope they are) then some gun owner wannabes ARE fruitloops. They hurt the cause by being themselves.

I challenge anyone to even MAKE UP a scenario where a handgun is needed while driving a package car, let alone cite a real example.

And by the way, I have had a carry permit for 9 years - newest piece is a G36

[soberups]

Originally Posted by Livin the Dream?

....Anyone going to work as a driver at UPS that is carrying a handgun while on the job is a catastrophe waiting to happen. I believe that strongly.

I dare say the problem with most people either wishing to carry or who do carry a handgun is the concept of progression - a handgun should leave its' holster only if someone will die / be extremely hurt if it is not. The problem, and I would say the majority of the time, is that handgun owners pull their gun out when they see people on the street, 20 feet away, that they don't like the looks of....

A good example is when I was back in High school. Fistfights. You had a beef, you beat each other up, one person won. Now adays people just point & shoot....

I challenge anyone to even MAKE UP a scenario where a handgun is needed while driving a package car, let alone cite a real example.

And by the way, I have had a carry permit for 9 years - newest piece is a G36

Please document the assertion that lisenced concealed permit holders typically "pull their gun out when they see people on the street 20 feet away that they dont like the looks of" In my 12 years of carrying concealed I have yet to draw my gun or even get into a verbal argument with anyone while carrying it.

The types of people who "just point and shoot" are the reson that I have a carry permit in the first place. Contrary to popular liberal belief, being helpless and unarmed does not make one safer.

One thing about your post i dont understand....you claim to have a permit and to carry a Glock 36, yet at the same time you assert that there would never be a scenario where a UPS driver on duty would want or need a weapon. Please explain what it is about being on duty in the brown truck that automatically protects the driver from all violent harm. Are you saying that guns would not be needed if everyone drove a UPS truck?

[Livin the Dream?]

Originally Posted by soberups

... you assert that there would never be a scenario where a UPS driver on duty would want or need a weapon. Please explain what it is about being on duty in the brown truck that automatically protects the driver from all violent harm. Are you saying that guns would not be needed if everyone drove a UPS truck?

You mis-quote, therefore I cannot answer.

I stated "I challenge anyone to even MAKE UP a scenario where a handgun is needed while driving a package car, let alone cite a real example."

PS - I'm trying to have a friendly debate, using opinions as I see them. You state "Are you saying that guns would not be needed if everyone drove a UPS truck?" Again, I believe you have intelligence - you already know I'm not, have not said that.

[some1else]

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

I have yet to encounter one and will have to question my career choice if I were to ever encounter one.

upstate we deliver to EVERY address in the country; can you think about anywhere that you wouldnt want to be delivering at 7pm?

Originally Posted by Livin the Dream?

I challenge anyone to even MAKE UP a scenario where a handgun is needed while driving a package car, let alone cite a real example.

again think about all the areas served. not everyone delivers to a country club!! btw living do some research CC permit holders have WAY low violent-crime rates.
i said i agree with the policy of no weaps. but i also believe that we should be compensated if we are injured as a result. its there choice to disarm us; so they need to assume the liability.

[rod]

I have a feeling that truck driver that was pulled out of his cab, beat, shot at and hit in the head with a big chunk of concrete during the Rodney King riots wished at the time that he was packin heat.

YouTube - LA Riots - Reginald Denny

YouTube - LA Riots - Reginald Denny

[Livin the Dream?]

{{{ sigh }}}

OK, I give in. There should be a holster right next to the DIAD holder. UPS should provide ammo, as well as training. (they do have such training experience on things like how to walk, left, right, left)

We could have yet another Acronym, maybe? the "Bring Loads of Ammo Monday's" program, or some such..

[UpstateNYUPSer]

Upstate we deliver to EVERY address in the country; can you think about anywhere that you wouldnt want to be delivering at 7pm?

In my area--no. I can recall many a Peak delivering well after dark and not the least bit concerned about my personal safety.

I can't speak for any other areas of the country.

[redshift1]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

I'd much rather have one and never need it than to need one just once and not have it.

I agree, we could have avoidable and unavoidable discharging of a firearm. Supervisors could OJS gun toting drivers on proper firearm procedures. All drivers must check firearms, grenade launchers and small tactical weapons at the guard-shack.

[scratch]

Originally Posted by redshift1

All drivers must check firearms, grenade launchers and small tactical weapons at the guard-shack.

LP could issue little blue stickers for them....

[hellfire]

Originally Posted by Livin the Dream?

Sober - I enjoy your posts - they are intelligent, thought provoking, and add value to the site. It is difficult for me to believe you did not understand what I wrote, so let me try again, in more detail-

Anyone going to work as a driver at UPS that is carrying a handgun while on the job is a catastrophe waiting to happen. I believe that strongly.

I dare say the problem with most people either wishing to carry or who do carry a handgun is the concept of progression - a handgun should leave its' holster only if someone will die / be extremely hurt if it is not. The problem, and I would say the majority of the time, is that handgun owners pull their gun out when they see people on the street, 20 feet away, that they don't like the looks of.

A good example is when I was back in High school. Fistfights. You had a beef, you beat each other up, one person won. Now adays people just point & shoot.

Read some of the posts in this thread. If they are not being sarcastic (and I hope they are) then some gun owner wannabes ARE fruitloops. They hurt the cause by being themselves.

I challenge anyone to even MAKE UP a scenario where a handgun is needed while driving a package car, let alone cite a real example.

And by the way, I have had a carry permit for 9 years - newest piece is a G36

I challenge anyone to even MAKE UP a scenario where a handgun is needed while driving a package car, let alone cite a real example. ---------------------------------------------------------------we had a driver hog tied,,, thrown into the back of the truck as it was driven off,, he escaped his taped up hand cuffs but the two aholes opened the bulk head , saw him free ...pistol whipped him and threw him out the back of the truck,, he has since had two strokes because of it,, the second one killed him.

[some1else]

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

In my area--no. I can recall many a Peak delivering well after dark and not the least bit concerned about my personal safety.

I can't speak for any other areas of the country.

dont be obtuse; you are well aware there are alot of routes (d.c, baltimore, atlanta, chicago, nyc, l.a, etc. etc. etc.) that have some neighboorhoods you wouldnt go into even if you had a gun and armor on!

its not well publicised but our trucks are robbed; however that usually isnt a problem-- just give them the keys and take off! however a methhead or w/e is very hard to negotiate with

[rod]

Originally Posted by some1else

dont be obtuse; you are well aware there are alot of routes (d.c, baltimore, atlanta, chicago, nyc, l.a, etc. etc. etc.) that have some neighboorhoods you wouldnt go into even if you had a gun and armor on!

its not well publicised but our trucks are robbed; however that usually isnt a problem-- just give them the keys and take off! however a methhead or w/e is very hard to negotiate with

YouTube - Video Wars #1: Obtuse

YouTube - Video Wars #1: Obtuse

Moderators note: Video contains language that may be inappropriate for children!

[soberups]

Originally Posted by Livin the Dream?

{{{ sigh }}}

OK, I give in. There should be a holster right next to the DIAD holder. UPS should provide ammo, as well as training. (they do have such training experience on things like how to walk, left, right, left)

We could have yet another Acronym, maybe? the "Bring Loads of Ammo Monday's" program, or some such..

Or perhaps we could be serious instead of sarcastic, and at least have a realistic discussion about the merits of allowing drivers with concealed weapons permits to carry on duty as long as they purchased an agreed-upon amount of liability insurance ahead of time.

[redshift1]

Originally Posted by soberups

Or perhaps we could be serious instead of sarcastic, and at least have a realistic discussion about the merits of allowing drivers with concealed weapons permits to carry on duty as long as they purchased an agreed-upon amount of liability insurance ahead of time.

You may feel your argument has some merit but unless we descend into total anarchy there is no reasonable argument to support your ideas. To be honest it sounds like survivalist thinking. Even on this conservative board its hard to garner support for drivers with guns.

[bubsdad]

Originally Posted by Feederdrivermack

Not too sure about this one Bub. Do you have a part or section number on this violation?

You're right, mack. I talked to a trooper friend of mine today and he put me in touch with an Ohio DOT officer who told me that since the conceal carry laws have changed it is no longer illegal, but a driver better have all his ducks in a row and the first thing he needs to disclose is that he is carrying. He must then present his CCW permit. This is what I love about these forums. I probably would never have taken the time to inquire about this had it not been for this discussion.

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by redshift1

You may feel your argument has some merit but unless we descend into total anarchy there is no reasonable argument to support your ideas. To be honest it sounds like survivalist thinking. Even on this conservative board its hard to garner support for drivers with guns.

Although I do not feel the need to carry a gun while on the job, it doesn't take away from Sober's argument. To say that total anarchy is required to give merit to Sober's thinking on this matter is in fact without merit. I wouldn't know how to find the proof, but I have heard of instances of UPS drivers being robed after being beaten(as in the one posted above) even killed on the job. There is no gurantee that carring a gun will save your life, but there could come a time that it would be better than a DIAD board.
Survival thinking? Damn straight.

[soberups]

Originally Posted by redshift1

You may feel your argument has some merit but unless we descend into total anarchy there is no reasonable argument to support your ideas. To be honest it sounds like survivalist thinking. Even on this conservative board its hard to garner support for drivers with guns.

I consider myself to be a "survivalist" in that I choose to be as self-reliant as possible and I do not just assume that the government will be there to protect me or save me when bad things happen. I am armed because I cant fit a cop in my pocket; and at home I choose to maintain a supply of water, food, fuel and other supplies that may not be available in the event of a major catastrophe. To me, this defines "survivalist thinking" and I wonder why anyone would take issue with it.

[Hedley_Lamarr]

Originally Posted by Livin the Dream?

Hmmm....wonder what the Union can do regarding carrying a loaded sidearm?

Driver wants to go to panel? Driver is obviously, then, stupid.

On the off chance the OP is for real, driver should look for another job, quickly, in the hope that the other shoe does not drop. Which it probably will.

I was just thinking, I was unaware we were allowed to carry a side arm.

[Livin the Dream?]

I hereby concede my title of un-official "forum instigator" to Soberups. You, sir, are very, very good. I applaud you. Seriously.

Either that, or you're a fruitloop.

[rod]

Around here I think there is a better chance of you being shot by an over reactive rookie cop with too many episodes of "Cops" fresh in his mind that by an actual bad guy.

[some1else]

Originally Posted by bubsdad

the first thing he needs to disclose is that he is carrying. He must then present his CCW permit.

wrong again. thats state by state; in some including mine i dont have to inform the officer for a traffic stop (you must obviously if you are under arrest). i do so as a courtesy (i always hand my permit with my drivers license so i dont go through the awkward "i have a gun" thing ). ive been pulled over 10+ times since ive had my permit and i think its actually gotten me out of tickets. usual response is "oh what kind of gun do you carry blah blah blah take it easy sir" basically by showing the officer the permit you are showing him that you have a clean criminal history (theres a thorough background check) and that you arent a lefty -- both pluses in leo's eyes