Fed Ex Media Campaign - Gloves coming off

[UpstateNYUPSer]

Rural/residential routes are often times referred to as retirement routes as they tend to be the routes favored by those drivers nearing retirement. There is normally less wear and tear on the driver. Should compensation be revised to reflect the differences between urban and rural routes? I don't believe so. We all pay our dues and should be rewarded as we near the finish line, not during the race.

I know a few of the Express drivers here and feel confident that each of them would do just fine wearing Brown. Sure, there would be an adjustment period, both in productivity and mindset, but each of us went through this adjustment when we first started working here.

Red has made many good points, chief among these being that passage of this legislation does not necessarily mean that FedEx employees will immediately begin to organize. Passage will simply afford them the opportunity to do so.

I have enjoyed this discussion as points have been made on both sides of the issue and I have learned a lot about FedEx that I did not know.

[JustTired]

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

Red has made many good points, chief among these being that passage of this legislation does not necessarily mean that FedEx employees will immediately begin to organize. Passage will simply afford them the opportunity to do so.

I think passage of this bill would be a win-win situation for both UPS and the Fedex employees. I'm guessing that if this bill were to pass, Fred will up the compensation (among other things) to his employees to keep the union out. So....regardless if they become union or not....the Fedex employee will benefit. The "playing field" could level out some even if the union fails to make inroads. JMO

[dilligaf]

I looked the other day to see if my comment had been posted. I could have swore that it was, but it wasn't. It is still waiting moderation even though there are a number of posts below me.

MY POST:

Your comment is awaiting moderation.


I have no issue with our Fed Ex drivers around here. They are decent hard working people just like myself. 1 Or 2 of them are even friends. They do the same work as I do and they deserve the same benefits and pay that I get. There is no mud slinging between us (drivers). We don’t fight with each other. That should be left to the corporate level.
There have been many posts here that slam and slur UPS for pushing this legislation, but I think it is fair to say that if the roles were reversed Fred would not waste a minute of time doing the same thing.


I'd like to know what is wrong with my post and why hasn't it been approved. And I can answer my own question..............the majority of the posts that are being allowed are pro Fed Ex. What a sham of a blog.

[Hoaxster]

Originally Posted by JustTired

I think passage of this bill would be a win-win situation for both UPS and the Fedex employees. I'm guessing that if this bill were to pass, Fred will up the compensation (among other things) to his employees to keep the union out. So....regardless if they become union or not....the Fedex employee will benefit. The "playing field" could level out some even if the union fails to make inroads. JMO

I'm not sure how wages would increase if FedEx is less profitable than UPS now and the price is pretty much the same.
I see it more along the the lines of having to integrate Ground and Express in order to stay in business. That's going to be hard to do "after the fact".
I can see the current owner operators delivering much if not all of the Express packages.
Going to be interesting if the bill does pass and as I stated before, I'm all for it.

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

I'm not sure how wages would increase if FedEx is less profitable than UPS now and the price is pretty much the same.
I see it more along the the lines of having to integrate Ground and Express in order to stay in business. That's going to be hard to do "after the fact".
I can see the current owner operators delivering much if not all of the Express packages.
Going to be interesting if the bill does pass and as I stated before, I'm all for it.

Hoax,

If the bill passes, I don't know if they would integrate the air and ground. It seems to me that once they do that, they would no longer be able to call those drivers independent contractors.

I find so many contradictions in their statements....

They talk about how their employees are happy and well paid. If that's the case, whey are they worried? Whey would they want to unionize?

They talk about how their remaining in the RLA is so important because a strike could stop commerce. Then they go on to say how the UPS strike stopped commerce. I would think more commerce is going through the ground than air.

At the moment, I'm enjoying UPS management and Teamsters having a common enemy. I think we fight and bicker among ourselves like a family. Now that we are attacked, we are joining together.

P-Man

[UpstateNYUPSer]

P-man, do you agree with the course of action that UPS has decided to take or do you think that we need to be more aggressive and play hard ball with Fred?

[big_arrow_up]

Isn't there a FedEx site kind of like Brown Cafe? I'd like to see what is being said there.

[Hoaxster]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

Hoax,

If the bill passes, I don't know if they would integrate the air and ground. It seems to me that once they do that, they would no longer be able to call those drivers independent contractors.



P-Man

I understand and agree P-Man. I drifted off topic from my direct reply to FedEx having to raise their wages.
I don't see how they can do that ... the Express part of their business, for years, has been FedEx's least profitable operating unit and UPS's most profitable (if you believe the numbers and the analysts). If FedEx increases wages and their cost goes up, it could be a long-downward spiral for FedEx Express unless FedEx decides to let the Ground side prop up the Express side.

[pkgdriver]

Originally Posted by big_arrow_up

Isn't there a FedEx site kind of like Brown Cafe? I'd like to see what is being said there.

http://www.fedexaminer.com/

Is probably the most active one out there. I think you will have to register to read.

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by big_arrow_up

Isn't there a FedEx site kind of like Brown Cafe? I'd like to see what is being said there.

fedexaminer.com...

[Sleeve_meet_Heart]

***** says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.

"It is funny to see these die-hard FedEx employees continue to post here (probably the same ones that are in control of this website)

One thing is for sure - if you ever hear, for example, “Mike” say …

“Has anyone heard that they treat their people unfairly at FedEx Express? NO, they win awards constantly and are recognized world-wide for their benefits and employee policies.”

That is extremely innaccurate and simply false/lies. Infact it would not be surprising to believe that UPS treats its employees better than FedEx simply because of the union involvement and knowing it has no choice than to co-exist with said employees rather than axe them and slander them on the way out the door.

Fed-Ex is anti-labor, anti-union, retaliatory towards any union activity or even mentioning the word union. They have harrassed, cooerced, intimidated and fired for these reasons. Does this sound like a “strong company” with a “large market share” and that “brown needs a bailout from disaster”, in all honesty? Or does this sound more like a company called FedEx that is running scared because the power is getting closer to being placed in the hands of the Fed-Ex delivery workforce instead of the deep pocketed corporate fatcats?

I’d say we all know the answer deep down."

This post will make the blog!

[Johney]

Originally Posted by BLACKBOX

All I can say is this...If this bill rules against FDX and the express division unionizes then wouldn't they have the best job in the world? Union wages plus their workload would make being a FDX courier a highly sought after position.

Don't you think that their workload would increase?

[Sleeve_meet_Heart]

Originally Posted by Sleeve_meet_Heart

***** says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.

"It is funny to see these die-hard FedEx employees continue to post here (probably the same ones that are in control of this website)

One thing is for sure - if you ever hear, for example, “Mike” say …

“Has anyone heard that they treat their people unfairly at FedEx Express? NO, they win awards constantly and are recognized world-wide for their benefits and employee policies.”

That is extremely innaccurate and simply false/lies. Infact it would not be surprising to believe that UPS treats its employees better than FedEx simply because of the union involvement and knowing it has no choice than to co-exist with said employees rather than axe them and slander them on the way out the door.

Fed-Ex is anti-labor, anti-union, retaliatory towards any union activity or even mentioning the word union. They have harrassed, cooerced, intimidated and fired for these reasons. Does this sound like a “strong company” with a “large market share” and that “brown needs a bailout from disaster”, in all honesty? Or does this sound more like a company called FedEx that is running scared because the power is getting closer to being placed in the hands of the Fed-Ex delivery workforce instead of the deep pocketed corporate fatcats?

I’d say we all know the answer deep down."

This post will make the blog!

What do you know, my post didn't make the blog. but 5 pro Fed-Ex posts did.

[Sleeve_meet_Heart]

Hmmm, will this post make the blog?


"John says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.

Great site.

Fed-Ex is the best company to work for. No one wants to be strong-armed into joining a union. We already have top pay, great work conditions, amazingly amazing management and easily the best benefits package around. our families are covered 100%, our 401k plan is second to none, and the pensions are robust! Us drivers will all retire as millionaires and reap the benefits of a non-union atmopsphere due to the caring, sharing and giving Fed-Ex corporate scheme.

There is nothing to gain by joining a union. Fed-ex is easily the best company to work for there ever has been.

I hope the brown bailout goes down in flames."

[Sleeve_meet_Heart]

Originally Posted by Sleeve_meet_Heart

Hmmm, will this post make the blog?


"John says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.

Great site.

Fed-Ex is the best company to work for. No one wants to be strong-armed into joining a union. We already have top pay, great work conditions, amazingly amazing management and easily the best benefits package around. our families are covered 100%, our 401k plan is second to none, and the pensions are robust! Us drivers will all retire as millionaires and reap the benefits of a non-union atmopsphere due to the caring, sharing and giving Fed-Ex corporate scheme.

There is nothing to gain by joining a union. Fed-ex is easily the best company to work for there ever has been.

I hope the brown bailout goes down in flames."

well whaddya know, this post filled with Fed-Ex luving sarcastic crap was quickly approved by the mods.

[mungrin]

FedEx must go down!!! Im so sick of seeing Fedex on the forbes top comanies to work for and most admired companies etc blah blah.We all know UPS is better and the only reason Fedex makes those lists is because Fred pays to get on it.Everyone knows that.
We are a better and bigger company,no more mr nice guy,time to crush Fedex!!!

[Jack_Burton]

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

the Express part of their business, for years, has been FedEx's least profitable operating unit

This is false. The Express division had an Operating income of $426 million and a Revenue of $6.37 billion for FY08. The Ground division Operating income was $203 million with a Revenue of $1.72 billion. The Express division has always been the leading division of FedEx Corp.

Remember if it wasn't for their Express there wouldn't be any other FedEx divisions. Let alone the loss leaders that are the Kinko's (Office) and Freight divisions. Fred has been using the profit from the Express division to expand his empire for years. He's been able to do this off the blood and sweat of his Express division workers. Between the misclassification under the RLA and the Ground "contractors" it has allowed FedEx to gain ground market share and expand into all kinds of different endeavours.

They spend almost twice and much as UPS in yearly lobbying efforts (9 million last year). There top five all have higher salaries than the UPSs top five. The company has lots of redundant management and other pork salaried positions. Don't forget about all the sports they sponsor and are involved with. FedEx Cup, FedEx Orange Bowl, Nascar, etc...

Express drivers no longer have a pension. It would take 15+ years to top out on the current pay scale. Once topped out the average Express driver will be making $8.00 less an hour. Not to mention the increases in insurance cost, etc...

Could they afford to give them UPS pay and benefits? Probably with some trimming of the fat. I'm willing to bet Express drivers would settle for less than UPS pay and benefits, but that could possibly hurt future contract negotiations.

Should be interesting to say the least.

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by Sleeve_meet_Heart

Hmmm, will this post make the blog?


"John says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.

Great site.

Fed-Ex is the best company to work for. No one wants to be strong-armed into joining a union. We already have top pay, great work conditions, amazingly amazing management and easily the best benefits package around. our families are covered 100%, our 401k plan is second to none, and the pensions are robust! Us drivers will all retire as millionaires and reap the benefits of a non-union atmopsphere due to the caring, sharing and giving Fed-Ex corporate scheme.

There is nothing to gain by joining a union. Fed-ex is easily the best company to work for there ever has been.

I hope the brown bailout goes down in flames."

"John" sounds like a manager writing exactly what FedEx wants to see. There is no pension plan at all, the 401k match is currently discontinued, and our benefits suck. "Amazingly amazing management"??? How about amazingly bad, amazingly cheap, amazingly unaware of worker discontent, and amazingly incredibly inept at doing anything but parroting idiotic corporate policies on everything from coffee cups to copy paper.

Here's an example. Right now, a request to have a uniform item replaced has to go through 4 levels of management to get approved. Let's say Fido tears your pants on a residential delivery and you need a new pair. Your ops manager submits to his senior manager, who submits to the managing director, who submits to the VP of the division....all for an effing pair of $10 pants. How incredibly stupid, anal, and worthless. Just like FedEx. Oh yeah, you have to turn-in the pants with the dog bite to show proof. Perhaps they need a DNA sample from both you and the dog as well. And people wonder why I get frustrated with these morons.

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

P-man, do you agree with the course of action that UPS has decided to take or do you think that we need to be more aggressive and play hard ball with Fred?

Upstate:

I trust Scott Davis. This is going to come down to what 100 sentators do He says he is going to focus on responding to them rather than to the public.

What I'm hoping he is doing is letting the Teamsters do the talking. Personally, I think that is a smart move. If he lets the Teamsters respond, this becomes NOT a discussion between two companies, but instead a discussion between a company and labor.

I think that makes FedEx look much worse. It makes them look like they are trying to keep their people down, instead of fighting against a larger company.

I think time will tell.

P-Man

[tellitstraight]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

Upstate:

I trust Scott Davis. This is going to come down to what 100 sentators do He says he is going to focus on responding to them rather than to the public.

What I'm hoping he is doing is letting the Teamsters do the talking. Personally, I think that is a smart move. If he lets the Teamsters respond, this becomes NOT a discussion between two companies, but instead a discussion between a company and labor.

I think that makes FedEx look much worse. It makes them look like they are trying to keep their people down, instead of fighting against a larger company.

I think time will tell.

P-Man

Reluctantly I have to agree with P-man. At first I wanted UPS to wage an all our media war but it does appear that most of the coverage is anti-FedEx. In one week the best they could do was post 2 "positive" news stories one was an editorial and the other an opinion piece. Hopefully Scotts plan works and while FedEx is whining and complaining we can steal back OUR customers.

[705red]

[satellitedriver]

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

Just curious, do you think the metro commercial UPS driver should make 30-40% more than the rural/residential UPS driver?
No, the ass pounding on back roads in an old P5, non power steering, bench seat(meaning 1inch of foam over a plywood based pedestal seat with 800,000 miles on it makes up the difference between packages and miles.
The reason I ask is that the primary differences between a UPS route and a FedEx Express route is Stop Density, Packages per Stop and Weight per Package.
Wrong, and at the same time, Right. The debate is between fedex pay/per production and Ups pay per/production. Based on ratio of actual production, they make more than we do.
In my case, there are 3 Fedex drivers covering the same area.
Between the 3 Fedex drivers, I deliver more pkgs and deliver more stops than any of them combined,not to mention that two of them are in a/c, powered steering vans.
So, back to my basic premise.
I make $29/hr driving one beat up old pkg car.
3 Fedex drivers make $15/hr.(just a guess on my part) to cover the same area and volume.
Simple math.
Fedex= $45/hr(plus bennies) and the cost of running 3 trucks.
UPS= $29/hr(plus bennies) and the cost of running one POS P5 pkg car.


These are the same primary differences between a UPS metro commercial route and a UPS rural/residential route.
I can only address the rural aspect, as I have, but, I doubt that the business model is that different in the metro/commercial ares.

[mungrin]

Not to mention the FedEx guy in my area is always talking to chics and hanging out.Arent they suppose to be in a rush??? ***?? Thier service must really suck! And yes im driving an old beater in 100 degree heat while the Fedex guy is in his A/C controled Hybrid.Am I the only one who sees something wrong with this?How are these guys still in business???

[Hoaxster]

Originally Posted by Hoaxster
Just curious, do you think the metro commercial UPS driver should make 30-40% more than the rural/residential UPS driver?
No, the ass pounding on back roads in an old P5, non power steering, bench seat(meaning 1inch of foam over a plywood based pedestal seat with 800,000 miles on it makes up the difference between packages and miles.
The reason I ask is that the primary differences between a UPS route and a FedEx Express route is Stop Density, Packages per Stop and Weight per Package.
Wrong, and at the same time, Right. The debate is between fedex pay/per production and Ups pay per/production. Based on ratio of actual production, they make more than we do.
In my case, there are 3 Fedex drivers covering the same area.
Between the 3 Fedex drivers, I deliver more pkgs and deliver more stops than any of them combined,not to mention that two of them are in a/c, powered steering vans.
So, back to my basic premise.
I make $29/hr driving one beat up old pkg car.
3 Fedex drivers make $15/hr.(just a guess on my part) to cover the same area and volume.
Simple math.
Fedex= $45/hr(plus bennies) and the cost of running 3 trucks.
UPS= $29/hr(plus bennies) and the cost of running one POS P5 pkg car.


These are the same primary differences between a UPS metro commercial route and a UPS rural/residential route.
I can only address the rural aspect, as I have, but, I doubt that the business model is that different in the metro/commercial ares.

It seems we are looking at this from parallel but different points of view.
If I may presume, it appears you are looking at how hard a person works or is inconvenienced as to what they should get paid. Based on that POV a ditch digger using a shovel should be paid more than the operator of a backhoe.
I am simply looking at how productive and profitable one route is versus another (regardless of company).
Customers pay by the package and profitability to the carrier is based on
1) Stop Density or Miles per Stop - The distance between stops on route and to-from mileage
2) Packages per Stop - more packages per stop equals greater profitability
3) Weight per Package - higher the weight the more profitable

FedEx drivers are less profitable in all of the above. Their miles per stop is less, their packages per stop are less and the weight per package is less.

Your route may be an anomaly (1 UPS driver to 3 FedEx drivers) since there are more UPS delivery drivers in the US than FedEx Express drivers but your example actually supports my POV as well as yours.

[Dagoof]

The FDEX Driver on my route makes 23 an hour he has been there 7 or 8 years.