what would you do

[City Driver]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

I agree 100%. That is what would separate foolish stupidity from something intentionally meant to hurt or degrade.

But to actually stand there and think that since it was not directed at me, then it could not be considered racist, is a real stretch of the imagination.

I find his response to the whole thing just as offensive as the initial post, which I think he still made up.

Our country will fall when good men (and women) stand by and do nothing when this type of behavior is exhibited.

d

go ahead and keep claiming i made this up, its simply not true

i never said it wasnt racist, i said it wasnt racist towards me

dont twist my words around

[pickup]

:white flag:

[dannyboy]

City

I want to take this moment to say something.

My wife mentioned that maybe just maybe you did not have the benefit of having a mother and father (or to be politically correct, a parent or two) that taught you what is proper way for people to treat each other. And to not just stand by and let bad things happen without getting involved.

In your several posts (many not on this thread) there is a very common content. One where you are asking for help in making your mind up if something is right or wrong, and how to handle the situation. That would point to the lack of guidance earlier on in life. A lack of core belief's if you will.

If that is the case, I want to apologize to you personally. And I want you to keep on learning how the proper way to interact with others.

And one of those things is to act when someone acts like the guy did without hesitation. Not because he is a racist against you, but because he is expressing a racist statement, and it offends you. Because it is wrong, not because you are the object of the racism.

Best

d

[stevetheupsguy]

Originally Posted by City Driver

in my mind, and in my opinion i did nothing wrong


nobody insulted me, he insulted the other driver

now read the thread again, i didnt ask if i did the right thing....i asked if the black driver should of reported the incident


and danny, dont tell me to grow a backbone

if somebody would of walked in there and called me a spic or something it would be a whole different story, i would do much more then speak up

you can claim thats racist all you want, the fact that i only get offended if my race is insulted...but to me thats not racist at all

you are just one of those people who labels everybody a racist

Why? What is a spic anyways, but some word that someone created for insults? Why let words bother you or even anger you to the point of violence? Are we teenagers here? Are we in a gang? Take it easy, man. Why lose your freedom over some silly comments?

Originally Posted by dannyboy

City

Lemme explain this to where you can understand it.

Not all that long ago, this polish guy was standing there watching when a bunch of soldiers came by and arrested and shot this guy because of being homosexual. A week later, they arrested and jailed another for speaking out against the government. Later on, they did the same for the black guy down the street, the baptist, the Jew, the catholic, the lesbian couple, the republican, and dozens more all around.

The polish guy never said a word or did anything, because it did not affect him personally.

Then they came for him. He tried to resist, and screamed and cried for help, but there was no one that could help, they had all been done away with earlier.

Yes, you dont have a back bone. A fellow employee is assaulted in ways that if it was done to you, you would have responded even with violence. But because it was done to someone else, you dont see anything that was done that was wrong. Not only do you not have a backbone to stand up for what is right, you are so selfish you cant see anyone else as a human that might need help.

Grow up, grow a backbone, and stand up for each other. Stand up against wrongs where ever you find them, and speak up when things like this occur. These are things that those that practice tyranny cant stand. When good men stand by and do nothing, tyranny rules.

I read your posts. I still really dont believe you, think you made the whole thing up. All of it except you not having a backbone.

d

Isn't this quintessentially flaming him? You're insulting him, IMHO.

Originally Posted by dannyboy

City

I want to take this moment to say something.

My wife mentioned that maybe just maybe you did not have the benefit of having a mother and father (or to be politically correct, a parent or two) that taught you what is proper way for people to treat each other. And to not just stand by and let bad things happen without getting involved.

In your several posts (many not on this thread) there is a very common content. One where you are asking for help in making your mind up if something is right or wrong, and how to handle the situation. That would point to the lack of guidance earlier on in life. A lack of core belief's if you will.

If that is the case, I want to apologize to you personally. And I want you to keep on learning how the proper way to interact with others.

And one of those things is to act when someone acts like the guy did without hesitation. Not because he is a racist against you, but because he is expressing a racist statement, and it offends you. Because it is wrong, not because you are the object of the racism.

Best

d

Now you're condescendingly psychoanylizing him. Come on man, you're better than that. You can't change everybody to make them into your little clones. We are all different and that's why this place is so much fun. Again, JMHO.

[dannyboy]

Stug

You are trying to read to much into something that isnt there.

As for flaming him, how?

The guy either has no backbone, or was not taught any different.

One he can fix, the other he can learn.

d

[trplnkl]

Danny, IMO, you have gone over the line with the parent thing. Not only is it insulting of both City Driver and his parents, it shows the total lack of decorum on your part.
We all have different heritages and live in different parts of the country. The way you may handle things in your world could well get your butt kicked in some one else's neck of the woods.
You are not the PC cop of the world, your view point is not always the end of all discussion. Your attitude on this subject is over the line and very insulting.
First you call City a liar, then say his parents are lacking in the skills to properly raise children, then you question his courage. My guess is, if you said these things to him face to face, you could find out just how much backbone he has.

This is America and so far it is still our right to hold our individual opinions, sometimes it's best to hold them to ourselves.
You've stated your opinion, I have stated mine.

[City Driver]

danny id basically talking down to me like a child, i quit reading after like 3 sentences

[UpstateNYUPSer]

It's interesting how this thread has morphed from a simple question in response to a racial insult to a discussion on racism to a lecture by a member to the OP. Danny, I respectfully ask that you apologize to City for your lecture. It was not called for and out of line. City is an adult and the fact that his value system differs from yours does not make it wrong nor does it make yours right.

[dannyboy]

danny id basically talking down to me like a child, i quit reading after like 3 sentences

Nuff said.

[dilligaf]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

Nuff said.

No I don't think it's 'nuff said'. You are a respected member of this community. Don't blow this off. This is not the first time that I have seen this. In fact, I have been on the recieving end. I respect your opinion, but you are not always right. You just have a different viewpoint.

Since we are talking about viewpoints, which one of mine pissed you off?

[pickup]

unfortunately, this thread became about race , partly because of the racial aspect of the story conveyed by city driver. I've heard there are three things that one shouldn't discuss in mixed company and that is race, religion and politics. When I am out there on the highway and if I have the cb radio on (which I rarely do), just let any of those three subjects become a topic of discussion and watch the sparks fly.

As for politics on this site, well we all know we have made our pro and con obama statements and pro and anti bush statements. It didn't cause too much static because we pretty much know where the rubber meets the road and we are all smart enough to know that politicians are basically liars and are indebted to the people who financed their campaigns

Religion. I don't think we have had any disagreement on this subject. There were times when the subject came up in overt and somewhat hidden form and I kept my mouth shut. When we are talking about suicides and/or ups drivers dying I keep my mouth shut in regards to where I think those souls might be or not be.
Holidays or holy days .. well, I think Dannyboy coincidentally mentioned in a christmas thread that christmas and the way we celebrate it owes something to pagan customs. I don't think he tied it to the festival of saturnalia but he was right in the ball park. I kept my mouth shut and didn't add more about the pagan influences of the christian religion. It would have started a conversation that would still be going on today. Easter, named after a germanic goddess of fertility.I didn't bring that one up either for the easter thread. Can only cause problems.

So we started with a post about a workplace incident that involved race and look what happened. It was bound to. I had a good joke but I kept it to myself But my mind already formulated it.. it is or was "Hey City driver , did the southern gentleman suggest that YOU use Spic and span?" Come on, some of you are laughing. Did I post it? No. Because it would have been taken the wrong way. And don't jump on me about it. I am using to prove a point. We should censor ourselves, to some degree here, just as we do in real life.

Posts aren't exactly the best way to communicate nor is the written word for some. I would like to think that if Dannyboy and City driver sat down at the local coffeehouse (not a beerhouse as I don't drink and I don't advocate it nor do I want to tempt soberups). If there are any mormons here who object to the choice of a coffee house, I apologize maybe a steak house, but a kosher /halal one so no muslims or jewish people are offended. but wait maybe a vegetarian cafe, since some vegetarians would get upset with the steakhouse. What's that, you vegans don't like that particular vegetarian restaurant because they use honey "stolen" from bees . Okay back to the coffehouse then with only decaffenated coffee (happy mormons?) . Black coffee so no milk stolen from cows will be used. Oh, what's that ,Mr save the earth? , oh okay, only fair trade coffee which doesn't rape the earth in its cultivation and provides a "fair" wage for the growers , presumably an indigenous family.

Okay, assuming i can get danny and city driver to this paradisical cafe and past the political correctness. I think they might be able to resolve their differences without the written word and time delay interfering. Also, face to face allows non verbal communication which often tells more than what is being said.

Oh, guys, if you do go to the coffeehouse, please take mass transit in order to reduce your carbon foot print.

Not sure if I need to include the coffehouse routine, but I think it made some kind of point.

see below

[pickup]

I am also going to state I am not an innocent in this . i sent a PM to danny stating that City driver has a habit of starting a thread and then ripping apart the posters who responded. I think he once started a thread that asked"who works harder, upsfreight or ups drivers"? That was fun. I stayed out of that one

I might have influenced him with my opinion. I kept my thoughts out of the public domain so as not to cause a ruckus(see how that worked, huh?) . Danny has more testicular fortitude than I do when it comes to confronting posters but I refrain to keep the peace or do not act because my suspicions are not 100% backed by the facts. Now when sexyupsman was posting here , his pattern was so established where he brought his hot driver into every post. I let him have it and probably went over the line but I did it to expose a troll who had an agenda. Now I let these guys twist in the wind. I almost wish I didn't make that comment about african americans . Then I could just watch the events from a distance knowing I didn't contribute to them happening.

[pickup]

:white flag: okay that's it , I give up. Nuff said.

[dannyboy]

Pickup

Your PM had nothing to do with it. I actually can read and form opinions on my own. All your insight added was the fact that others have picked up on it as well. Which was already done by others before yours.

I personally dont have a thing against City.

d

[futureupser]

REPORT IT.

[dannyboy]

Dil

Im sorry, I must have been posting while you posted, so I did not see your post until just now.

The nuff said was concerning this thread and the contents. There was nothing you said or anyone else, that "pissed me off".

But what was very interesting was upstates

the fact that his value system differs from yours does not make it wrong nor does it make yours right.

That one requires some thoughtful mulling before/if I respond. But in the meantime, within the next few days, I will have the privilege to get into some court records and profile of a person with a different value system than mine.

It would seem that one of my customers was out mowing her lawn right next to a busy 4 lane. She noticed a person had pulled into her driveway.

She went to see if she could help, and he asked her for directions. She turned and pointed north, and when she turned back, he had a gun. He tried to talk her into going into the house, and when she refused, he pistol whipped her, knocking her glasses and shoes off. (remember, this is on the front lawn maybe 40 feet from the busy 4 lane, with nothing but open lawn) No one stopped to help, no one called the police.

Anyway, he ended up with her in the garage where he noticed her car, made her get in and drove to a secluded road and stopped. He then said " I guess you know whats next".

To make the rest a short story, she managed to get away and get to help. This guy with a value system different from mine and yours had done the same thing twice before, been caught, sentenced to 30 years to life both times, but yet was released both times after only serving a small portion of his time.

This time, because of the violent crimes, and the multiple times, they went after the death sentence, but let him plead to life without parole.

While I realize that everyone is entitled to their own belief system or values, where do you draw the line. I guess I need to reflect before I answer that one without seeming to lecture upstate.

And I guess the biggest correlation to this thread is that several people went by, maybe 100 or more, while the assault was going on, and yet no one did a damn thing. Maybe they felt the same way as city? Its not happening to me, so lemme run in after the fact and ask what I should have done.

Im sorry, its cut and dried. Yeah, there are times when a bystander that gets involved pays a hard price, but sometimes you just have to look past your own personal well being and do whats right. Without having to take a poll to do it.

d

[bellesotico]

Originally Posted by pickup

just for the sake of accuracy, I mistakenly overstated my "italian stallinous" in a previous post in this thread. My father was 3/4 italian. With no italian ancestry on my mother's side, that would make me 3/8 italian ancestry. Not that it matters, but I just wanted to correct that fact before anyone makes me an offer I can't refuse and try to recruit me for membership in a gentleman's club. My great grandfather was in that club and he got whacked.

LOL!

And just to throw it out there..I happen to be bi-racial. Half Italian, half Jamaican. Many people look at me and can't quite tell what my racial make up is as I have very European features and the only time I have any tan to my skin color is after I spend a couple days fake bakin.

[over9five]

Originally Posted by bellesotico

LOL!

.... the only time I have any tan to my skin color is after I spend a couple days fake bakin.

I think pictures would help us understand this better....!

[bellesotico]

Originally Posted by City Driver

in my mind, and in my opinion i did nothing wrong
nobody insulted me, he insulted the other driver
now read the thread again, i didnt ask if i did the right thing....i asked if the black driver should of reported the incident


and danny, dont tell me to grow a backbone

if somebody would of walked in there and called me a spic or something it would be a whole different story, i would do much more then speak up

you can claim thats racist all you want, the fact that i only get offended if my race is insulted...but to me thats not racist at all

you are just one of those people who labels everybody a racist

Ok..who are you saying is a racist?? LOL..
I can tell you are pretty heated and I apologize if my remarks have come off as judgemental or as a personal attack. I don't know you and I am in no position to tell you anything.
I don't think you being silent is racist. I questioned your silence. I did go back and "read the topic" and like you said, you never asked the question from your perspective..so again I apologize.

Speaking personally I have dealt with racism at UPS and to date I have not reported it. Frankly I don't give a XXXX what anyone thinks of me and if I waged war on everyone who told black jokes in front of me..I would be worn out from fighting. BUT if I witnessed racially derogatory comments directed at a co-worker..black, white, asian, hispanic..you better believe I would say something to the person throwing out the insults. Not everyone has thick skin like me, and whether I choose to deal with it or not is ME..other people may not be that strong. In my opinion speaking up is an honorable thing to do. If that person wants to take it to another level..well that is on them.

You did you. Why you posted a scenario such as this when you clearly had no interest made me question your motive. I guess I didn't understand your point. But you stated your position..and while I don't agree, I can respect your viewpoint.

~Belle

[bellesotico]

Originally Posted by over9five

I think pictures would help us understand this better....!

lol..duly noted

[pickup]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

Pickup

Your PM had nothing to do with it. I actually can read and form opinions on my own. All your insight added was the fact that others have picked up on it as well. Which was already done by others before yours.

I personally dont have a thing against City.

d

Daniel

Good!, I am off the hook then.

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

Dil

Im sorry, I must have been posting while you posted, so I did not see your post until just now.

The nuff said was concerning this thread and the contents. There was nothing you said or anyone else, that "pissed me off".

But what was very interesting was upstates

That one requires some thoughtful mulling before/if I respond. But in the meantime, within the next few days, I will have the privilege to get into some court records and profile of a person with a different value system than mine.

It would seem that one of my customers was out mowing her lawn right next to a busy 4 lane. She noticed a person had pulled into her driveway.

She went to see if she could help, and he asked her for directions. She turned and pointed north, and when she turned back, he had a gun. He tried to talk her into going into the house, and when she refused, he pistol whipped her, knocking her glasses and shoes off. (remember, this is on the front lawn maybe 40 feet from the busy 4 lane, with nothing but open lawn) No one stopped to help, no one called the police.

Anyway, he ended up with her in the garage where he noticed her car, made her get in and drove to a secluded road and stopped. He then said " I guess you know whats next".

To make the rest a short story, she managed to get away and get to help. This guy with a value system different from mine and yours had done the same thing twice before, been caught, sentenced to 30 years to life both times, but yet was released both times after only serving a small portion of his time.

This time, because of the violent crimes, and the multiple times, they went after the death sentence, but let him plead to life without parole.

While I realize that everyone is entitled to their own belief system or values, where do you draw the line. I guess I need to reflect before I answer that one without seeming to lecture upstate.

And I guess the biggest correlation to this thread is that several people went by, maybe 100 or more, while the assault was going on, and yet no one did a damn thing. Maybe they felt the same way as city? Its not happening to me, so lemme run in after the fact and ask what I should have done.

Im sorry, its cut and dried. Yeah, there are times when a bystander that gets involved pays a hard price, but sometimes you just have to look past your own personal well being and do whats right. Without having to take a poll to do it.

d

Comparing a verbal ,non-threatening statement to physical violence is totally ridiculous.
The pass-by and ignore act is indeed much worse than what City or Upstate or anyone else even inferred, it's not even in the same ball park. Sure you can quote statements made by many people on here, me included, to try and show how it is the same thing, but you and anyone else with a brain can see through that illogical logic.

Not that it matters, but I have personally been an interrupting factor twice in my lifetime. Luckily for me neither time did the perpetrator have a gun.
I had a cousin that wasn't so lucky, he's dead now as a result of his heroic efforts.

555

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by pickup

unfortunately, this thread became about race , partly because of the racial aspect of the story conveyed by city driver.

LOL, ya think? Race was the main factor in the whole story. If it wasn't for that, there would have been no thread at all.

[pickup]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

Dil
his time.

This time, because of the violent crimes, and the multiple times, they went after the death sentence, but let him plead to life without parole.


d

I've never heard of , at least in the united states, a death penalty being threatened for anybody who didn't kill someone, not even in texas when bush was gov.. Really?

[pickup]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

LOL, ya think? Race was the main factor in the whole story. If it wasn't for that, there would have been no thread at all.

Really the main issue was other than race. The story could have easily been the same three guys in the bathroom. and as one(#1) is washing up, the other one(#2) attempts to steal the wallet protruding from the back pocket of the guy washing up. He gets caught in the act and guy #1 grabs back his wallet and says 'that is wrong, that is stealing, I have a witness (guy #3)and if you do it again, I will report you"

Guy #3 comes onto browncafe and starts a thread asking "what would you do? , Should I have reported this? not from my standpoint , I mean if you were guy #1 , would you report it.

by the way before somebody says it, i dont think I should report it......its not my business but if the guy #1 was to report it and they did ask me if i heard what he said i would tell them exactly what the guy said

to me, the whole "dont snitch on your union brothers" thing goes out the window when they disrespect the hell out of 1 or more of their union brothers"


There I pretty much took the same situation and matter of concern of citydriver and slightly changed it to reflect the original posting.

Even if the question was ignored and we started focusing on the act of larceny, nobody would have been offended here and we wouldn't have this thread living past its expiration date which should have been about 10 posts , maximum