True story.... - Brown Cafe

want to retire · 07-03-2009, 11:39 AM

Package Center PCM: bear in mind Diad had been in use for years. Manager lays out 10 packages on floor. Has a driver record the 10 packages with a DIAD and also has a driver record(at the same time) with the old paper records. Of course the DIAD finished much sooner. Manager then states"so you see- the DIAD takes much less time. We never gave the proper time allowances for the switchover and are going to do that now". Next day 1 hour allowance was reduced for everyone's day. Mine went from about half- hour under to right around thirty min. over....just like that. They managed to do this with straight faces.

feederdriver06 · 07-03-2009, 11:50 AM

Sounds to me that the manager just cut his own throat when it comes to their bogus numbers game that they play. Now instead of you guys running under you will be running over. The centers numbers will be crap every morning and he will hear about it during his conference call. You live by the sword and you die by the sword.

wo88upsman · 07-03-2009, 12:15 PM

did ours like that over a year ago used to have 90 stops for 8 hours now it takes around 130

over9five · 07-03-2009, 12:16 PM

Strange. This just happened?

They did this to us several years ago, just about the time we got PAS/EDD. Did you just get PAS/EDD?

soberups · 07-03-2009, 01:12 PM

When we recorded on paper, we only had to write a 6-digit shipper number plus an ID#. Now, if you had to record on paper it would be an entire 1Z label, so of course the DIAD is faster.

When you factor in the need to use the shift key, plus the high percentage of unreadable barcodes, using the DIAD isnt any faster than recording on paper was.

Give me 50 packages with the old 6-digit shipper numbers and I will record them just as fast on a 50-liner as I would if I were scanning 50 pieces with a DIAD.

The change in allowance was nothing more than a grab-your-ankles screwjob on the part of the company. They did it because they could get away with it, nothing more.

If you have a truck with a weight capacity of 2000 pounds and you need to get 2500 pounds into it, you have to modify the suspension if you want to keep it from breaking. UPS's method is to simply calculate a pound at 24 ounces instead of 16. Nothing has changed in the real world, but it all looks nice and pretty on paper now....and when it breaks down they can blame the employee rather than deal with the real issue.

The people who put those allowances together have ever done our jobs, never been on our delivery areas, never had to actually try to manage a center under the false expectations they have created. They are absent and unaccountable. They do their "studies" and move on, leaving those of us who actually work in the real world...along with our customers... stuck with cleaning up the mess they left in their wake.

wo88upsman · 07-03-2009, 01:32 PM

sorry but no way you can record 50 packages on paper faster than you can with DIAD even old 6 digit shipper numbers

over9five · 07-03-2009, 01:34 PM

And remember to add in the time you save NOT having to add up daily totals for packages, stops, cods, p/u pcs, etc etc etc.

tieguy · 07-03-2009, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soberups

When we recorded on paper, we only had to write a 6-digit shipper number plus an ID#. Now, if you had to record on paper it would be an entire 1Z label, so of course the DIAD is faster.

When you factor in the need to use the shift key, plus the high percentage of unreadable barcodes, using the DIAD isnt any faster than recording on paper was.

Give me 50 packages with the old 6-digit shipper numbers and I will record them just as fast on a 50-liner as I would if I were scanning 50 pieces with a DIAD.

The change in allowance was nothing more than a grab-your-ankles screwjob on the part of the company. They did it because they could get away with it, nothing more.

If you have a truck with a weight capacity of 2000 pounds and you need to get 2500 pounds into it, you have to modify the suspension if you want to keep it from breaking. UPS's method is to simply calculate a pound at 24 ounces instead of 16. Nothing has changed in the real world, but it all looks nice and pretty on paper now....and when it breaks down they can blame the employee rather than deal with the real issue.

The people who put those allowances together have ever done our jobs, never been on our delivery areas, never had to actually try to manage a center under the false expectations they have created. They are absent and unaccountable. They do their "studies" and move on, leaving those of us who actually work in the real world...along with our customers... stuck with cleaning up the mess they left in their wake.

there is absolutely no way you can write faster then a diad can scan it. You scan the package and it brings up all the address information.

Once you admit the diad is quicker then the argument comes down to how much quicker and how many more stops you should be able to deliver.

One twist to this argument that I don't see when this topic comes up is sheeting while walking. When I was on paper I got pretty good at recording while walking up the driveway.

To me the biggest time gain would be at the commercial stops where you just line them up and scan them without all the extra writing.

I don't see a whole lot of gains on the resi side.

UpstateNYUPSer · 07-03-2009, 02:05 PM

The only gain that I can see on the resi side is the fact that GPS will let you know if you are at the right address; other than that, the only way you can sheet 50 pkgs faster than you can scan them is if all 50 had the same shipper number and you were simply writing down the ID number for each package after having sheeted the shipper number and ID for the first pkg.

Combining an increased workload under PAS/EDD with a now reduced time allowance sounds like a recipe for failure, with the customer coming out on the losing end (again).

want to retire · 07-03-2009, 02:16 PM

I really feel I was never promoted for just this sort of thing. I would have lasted about a day.

rod · 07-03-2009, 02:56 PM

once again

YouTube - joe South - Games People Play (1968)

JustTired · 07-03-2009, 03:03 PM

They did that to us at least 4 years ago. And it had nothing to do with PAS/EDD. We took another hit when that went in.

While I've always been a fan of the diad, I never thought that it saved the driver that much time. But,boy, it sure made everybody's job behind the driver a lot easier (audits, delivery lookups, signature verifications, etc.).

If ,on average, the driver loses an hour/day it just doesn't seem to add up. Nothing has changed except the sheeting. And you can sheet a whole lot of pkgs in an hour. Especially the six digit + ID type. It didn't make the stops any closer to each other so miles haven't changed. It doesn't help you get the pkgs to the door. And finally there are those pesky pkgs that just won't scan.

If you aren't on PAS/EDD yet and you think you lost time......you haven't seen anything yet!

soberups · 07-03-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tieguy

there is absolutely no way you can write faster then a diad can scan it. You scan the package and it brings up all the address information.

I can do it old school...meaning 6 digits plus ID# and the first 3 or 4 letters of the street name+ address on a 50-liner...just as fast as I can scan barcodes. A significant percentage, I would say at least 10%, of barcodes will not scan so you wind up fighting with the shift key and listenting to the damn thing beep at you. And God help you if one of the letters you have to type in is an "F" and you forget whether or not you hit the shift key, you wind up hitting "escape" instead and you get to start all over. On paper, you arent dealing with customers who cant figure the DIAD out, who cant find the stylus, who get all nervous and want to "start over" because their signature is just a scribble, or who wind up hitting the signature key with their left thumb due to its idiotic placement in the worst location it could possibly be. Obtaining a signature on a 50 liner with a pen is routine. Obtaining a signature on a DIAD with a stylus is an adventure.

I will concede that, at a bulk stop with many tens or hundreds of pieces, the DIAD *might* be a bit faster....but for the majority of stops with 10 pieces or less there is no real difference. If you are following standard 340 methods the elapsed time from when you open the bulkhead door to when you return from the delivery and grab the handrail isnt going to be any different.The arbitrary decision on the part of the company to reduce the piece allowance was nothing more than a calculated, deliberate attempt to screw us over. It was not based upon actual, real-world study, and it was never intended to be fair.

mungrin · 07-03-2009, 03:55 PM

um this is nothing new at my station.

trplnkl · 07-03-2009, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mungrin

um this is nothing new at my station.

Nor most "stations" across the country.
We lost time a couple of years after we first got DIAD, then about a month or two before PASS/EDD, they claimed they never cut the time for DIAD, just as the OP's center did. Then right after PASS/EDD we got another decrease.
We have routes that now run an hour and a half over allowed with the same driver that used to run it in scratch.

TheDick · 07-03-2009, 06:32 PM

We lost our sheet allowance 6months after the PAS/EDD install. Its just another reason IE uses to cut cars. I mean the DM doesnt even run things anymore, But they let him keep his stick for browbeating us with.
The old rule of one SUP staying till the last driver punches out is coming back around these parts. That might make a difference if local CTM could dispatch cars instead of IE.
One twist to this argument that I don't see when this topic comes up is sheeting while walking. When I was on paper I got pretty good at recording while walking up the driveway.

And when u trip and fall--they'll say you werent using safe work methods.

speeddemon · 07-03-2009, 06:40 PM

ANd you believe that?

bigbrownhen · 07-03-2009, 07:31 PM

Sober, maybe I misunderstood, but are you not on Edd, you can just enter the last 4 digits and tracking number will pull up. I hate having to enter entire bar code. I am always in ABC when I want numbers, or vise versa, drives me crazy.

hellfire · 07-03-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soberups

The people who put those allowances together have ever done our jobs, never been on our delivery areas, never had to actually try to manage a center under the false expectations they have created. They are absent and unaccountable. They do their "studies" and move on, leaving those of us who actually work in the real world...along with our customers... stuck with cleaning up the mess they left in their wake.

man,, as real as it gets there..........................

cachsux · 07-03-2009, 08:10 PM

Usually this is the point in a package car thread where someone says "Thank God I`m in Feeder and don`t have to put up with this stuff!"

So,um.....Thank God I`m in Feeder and don`t have to put up with this stuff!

MechanicForBrown · 07-03-2009, 11:00 PM

man, thank god i'm in automotive.

old brown shoe · 07-03-2009, 11:10 PM

This is done so they can cut routes and put more work on the others. They will tell you that you only have a nine hour day and can't help it if it takes you ten and a half. Look at it this way you just got a big raise. I just tell them it pays by the hour and I will be back when I get done. I don't like to work the long hours any more than most of the drivers but have been doing it for so many years it just seems like a average day.

tieguy · 07-04-2009, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDick

And when u trip and fall--they'll say you werent using safe work methods.

If you were smart you would pick a walk path free of hazards and obstructions. everyone did it back then and I rarely heard of anyone having any issues.

tieguy · 07-04-2009, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellfire

man,, as real as it gets there..........................

Dont confuse this issue with the normal IE inflated performance measurement arguement. You cant realistically argue against the point that the diad is so much quicker and easier then paper.

soberups · 07-04-2009, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tieguy

Dont confuse this issue with the normal IE inflated performance measurement arguement. You cant realistically argue against the point that the diad is so much quicker and easier then paper.

Have you ever actually used a DIAD yourself, to deliver an entire route with?
I've used every version iof the DIAD since its inception,and before that I was recording on paper. I have used both and can say with 100& certainty that the DAD is not really quicker than paper