Business development aka sales people.... - Page 2 - Brown Cafe

Just Numbers · 07-06-2009, 08:34 PM

There was a time at Ups when BD reps were called Customer Service reps. They were assigned numnerous duties which included pickup accounts and obtaining new ones. Those were the days in which the C/S rep knew every driver on a first name basis and introduced himself to every new driver. Our reps name was Tom A.... Sometimes he was a pain and other times very helpful to us drivers. Whenever there was a new p/u acct. or a problem with an existing one Tom would have a mtg with the cm, driver and driver sup to come up with a pausible solution for all involved and quess what...it almost always worked. THAT IS WHAT IS MISSING WITH TODAY'S UPS! I hope someone in corporate is monitoring this!!!

JustTired · 07-07-2009, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Numbers

There was a time at Ups when BD reps were called Customer Service reps. ........... THAT IS WHAT IS MISSING WITH TODAY'S UPS!

That's because they are tasked with "developing business", not "servicing the customer". Customer Service became a misnomer. Probably a legal thing. (I doubt it...but who knows)

Hoaxster · 07-07-2009, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustTired

That's because they are tasked with "developing business", not "servicing the customer". Customer Service became a misnomer. Probably a legal thing. (I doubt it...but who knows)

Customer Service was changed to Sales or BD because Corporate thought that Customer Service was every UPSers job.
Back in the 80's, when a customer had a problem, most people thought that was the job of the CS rep .... most times, it was not. It was something the center or driver needed to do.
It does appear that there is more acceptance of customer service by all UPSers as part of their job since that name change.

TheDick · 07-07-2009, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wisedragonfly

One reason FDX is able to offer cheaper rates is they don't pay their drivers the high $$$ that UPS pays to their drivers. FDX does not provide better service! BD does not dictate the drivers route. EDS & PASS were not created by BD.

Another reason FDX can offer cheaper rates is they dont pay their Mgmnt the high$$$ that UPS pays their Mgmnt either.

Say what's the $$$ levels for the 5 account types?
One of you BD's mentioned it before. My local BD has 3guys to do all of that. Then they doubled the BD's territory.

pickup · 07-07-2009, 01:09 PM

Corporate monitor: please read this thread and report back to your illuminati masters. Good business sense can be had for the taking just by reading this thread.

BLACKBOX · 07-07-2009, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldworld

There are times when a company can be picked up or delivered at a given time but mgt doesnt want you to break trace...even if the damn customer is right across the street....

This is the part that irks me also. The sick feeling I get when I'm on one side of the street and our customer is on the other side with his hand on his hips with the "when am I going to get my stuff" look. Whaddayado??

old brown shoe · 07-07-2009, 09:39 PM

If customer service is all our jobs, please tell me how to code it out so I can provide some. I would love to be able to spend a minute or two with my customers or other business to try to get more volume, but don't want to get fired for stealing time.

coldworld · 07-07-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLACKBOX

This is the part that irks me also. The sick feeling I get when I'm on one side of the street and our customer is on the other side with his hand on his hips with the "when am I going to get my stuff" look. Whaddayado??

there was a post on here a month or so ago about complaints and concerns going through the roof right now...whats going on ups??? How many of these complaints are DIRECTLY related to actions being decided by operations....I would guess a very high number. It should make every upser ill with whats going on right now.The economy will get better, do we want the customers to come out of this with a disgruntled attitude of ups?

coldworld · 07-07-2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old brown shoe

If customer service is all our jobs, please tell me how to code it out so I can provide some. I would love to be able to spend a minute or two with my customers or other business to try to get more volume, but don't want to get fired for stealing time.

We are told to "grow the business", who cares if they ask you why you were at a business for 10 minutes..tell them the truth, you're rounding up business just like mgt should be doing!!

coldworld · 07-07-2009, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLACKBOX

This is the part that irks me also. The sick feeling I get when I'm on one side of the street and our customer is on the other side with his hand on his hips with the "when am I going to get my stuff" look. Whaddayado??

Thanks for being an employee who cares about this company and the customers. Mgt really has no concern for the customer...period. Ups taught each and every single driver in the beginning that the customers are what its all about....whats going on...whats changed??There still are millions of customers who are surviving and need service in these times. Its frustrating to know what it takes to keep and grow customers, but mgt holding people back, and holding this company back. I truly believe that ups has some of the strongest customer service values in their drivers and reps out there in todays business world. Why would you want to hold them back over a few seconds???

TheDick · 07-07-2009, 10:22 PM

I tried to put out a fire today when one of my retarded customers couldnt fax a claim with the form ups gave them with fax number included. So she asks me to put fire out. I dont know the freakin fax number but i bet the BD's know the number! So i call the
"AE : 40k - 200k a year"
and ask him.
He blew me off and told me to tell customer to call the 800 number-and said rtard customer looks at me like i'm the rtard!
Oh yeah and my POS neighbors route got eliminated today so the POS next to me with more seniority and 49% of his route on mine decided to assert his seniority on my route. Then he decided to take the day off once he saw the EDD.

wisedragonfly · 07-08-2009, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

Customer Service was changed to Sales or BD because Corporate thought that Customer Service was every UPSers job.
Back in the 80's, when a customer had a problem, most people thought that was the job of the CS rep .... most times, it was not. It was something the center or driver needed to do.
It does appear that there is more acceptance of customer service by UPSers as part of their job since that name change.

Do you really believe that?

With respect Hoax, I came from Customer Service when I was hired back in peak of 1984. Corporate began downsizing the department in the mid 90's. The department was abolished completely by 2000, with the exception of PCA-Preferred Customer Associates, which was abolished by the end of the 1st quarter this year, 2009.

I have always been told that Customer Service was a cost to UPS since we didn't make money for the company. We took pickup orders, solved customer problems and assisted the sales force. Now the Customer Services jobs are held by a vendor company, only they don't problem solve or help the sales force. They strictly send messages to the centers. Service issues are dumped on the sales force, taking up all their selling time. How can they sell and handle the many service problems?

During the first couple downsizes they eventually closed the phone centers and created Customer Support which continued assisting the sales force in solving customer problems, which was a much smaller unit. Before long Customer Support was abolished as well.

BD is the new name for what used to be considered Customer Service District Office who managed the sales force, with customer service under the same umbrella. In the old Customer Service days, my district had about 90 C/S reps during non-peak season and just over 200 during peak. That number does not count the sales force. Customer Service, or better known as CSTC is gone. DI - Delivery Information, is gone. Payroll, I hear is gone, although some say it's just been relocated. Pieces of Finance are gone.

With all the downsizes that I've seen over the last 15 years, IMO, it won't be long before UPS consists of drivers and management. I truly don't believe that there will be any admins left. There are not that many of us now. I am very Thankful to be able to come to work. I know my days are numbered, in the end. I hope I can hit retirement age before they boot me out the door. I say my prayers every single day!

If we don't do something to fix the service problems our customers are going to divert and UPS will begin to downsize centers.

JustTired · 07-08-2009, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wisedragonfly

Do you really believe that?

With respect Hoax, I came from Customer Service when I was hired back in peak of 1984. Corporate began downsizing the department in the mid 90's. The department was abolished completely by 2000, with the exception of PCA-Preferred Customer Associates, which was abolished by the end of the 1st quarter this year, 2009.

I have always been told that Customer Service was a cost to UPS since we didn't make money for the company. We took pickup orders, solved customer problems and assisted the sales force. Now the Customer Services jobs are held by a vendor company, only they don't problem solve or help the sales force. They strictly send messages to the centers. Service issues are dumped on the sales force, taking up all their selling time. How can they sell and handle the many service problems?

During the first couple downsizes they eventually closed the phone centers and created Customer Support which continued assisting the sales force in solving customer problems, which was a much smaller unit. Before long Customer Support was abolished as well.

BD is the new name for what used to be considered Customer Service District Office who managed the sales force, with customer service under the same umbrella. In the old Customer Service days, my district had about 90 C/S reps during non-peak season and just over 200 during peak. That number does not count the sales force. Customer Service, or better known as CSTC is gone. DI - Delivery Information, is gone. Payroll, I hear is gone, although some say it's just been relocated. Pieces of Finance are gone.

With all the downsizes that I've seen over the last 15 years, IMO, it won't be long before UPS consists of drivers and management. I truly don't believe that there will be any admins left. There are not that many of us now. I am very Thankful to be able to come to work. I know my days are numbered, in the end. I hope I can hit retirement age before they boot me out the door. I say my prayers every single day!

If we don't do something to fix the service problems our customers are going to divert and UPS will begin to downsize centers.

If the criteria for a valid job at UPS is whether you make the company money, there would only be drivers and BD people. They could get rid of anyone above the center level and not skip a beat.

Of course to hear them, it's the drivers that are their biggest expense. Never mind that they are the ones who actually pick up and deliver the pkgs. It would be hard to sell a service if there is no one to initiate or complete the transaction.

Everybody would like to have a business where they collect the money but don't really provide the service they're selling. It would be what I would call the "Madoff Philosophy". Nice work if you can get it (and stay out of jail).

upssalesguy · 07-08-2009, 03:06 PM

i work my assssss off. I work with our major customers and spend more time in the offices then the shipping docks. the only time i get noticed is if an account leaves that costs the district money. it is a thankless job and this thread is proof. If I didnt have to deal with constant service issues, I could really make an impact winning business - it is everyones job to do customer service and at the minimum, get the packages there ON TIME and IN GOOD CONDITION. I like when the drivers are complaining about split routes and telling me that is why they dont turn in sales leads. Hey dummy, why do you think the route was cut?

I do buy pizza and bring in breakfast if needed - but why butter up to the guy who will be the first to be laid off?

freight reps also have an unlimited budget and work regionally (MANY regional carriers go after a certain nitch freight lane) and that is the expectation of them by their shippers. They are not strategic like UPS. Also, UPS has about 600 times the customers as the largest freight carrier.

I am fired up today, sorry.

whiskey · 07-08-2009, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hudson

very well said. i wish all drivers thought this way. unfortunately some drivers on this forum say "it not their job" when it comes sharing information/sales leads.

UPS package car drivers really don't have the time to "talk" with a customer about potential volume. Our job is to work with a sense of urgency. We say "Hi" and "Bye" and in between, let the person know signing the DIAD, that we saw the "big game last night". When the DIAD is returned to us, we're gone. Leaving a sideways glance with a smile as the customers parting words bounce off our sweaty backs. Most of us are paid over every day. Unless your one of the lucky ones, who has a pickup stop with 500 envelopes.
To much yin. Not enough yang.

want to retire · 07-08-2009, 04:57 PM

Wow Whiskey.....well said.......but yet the BD guy wants you to do his job also. What's one more task? It goes like this OMS:"There is a new p/u for your area. Where do you want it in your board?" Driver "I can't handle any more p/u's"......OMS:"too bad".......they want to be p/u @ 17:00.......Driver: I can only be @ one place @ a time"..........OMS: blank look.............Manager: "why are you out so late? Customer so and so called in saying you're getting there after closing....".......and so it goes.

upssalesguy · 07-08-2009, 06:24 PM

it's not the BD guys job - we are conversion account managers, not cold callers. You see fedex, you turn in a lead. THAT IS NOT TOUGH.

yeah, so you work hard and pick up a lot of packages, that is your job, brah. when did people all of a sudden think they can make up their own rules for what they do during the day?

BLACKBOX · 07-08-2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiskey

Leaving a sideways glance with a smile as the customers parting words bounce off our sweaty backs.

I admire you're flowery prose.

wisedragonfly · 07-08-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upssalesguy

i work my assssss off. I work with our major customers and spend more time in the offices then the shipping docks. the only time i get noticed is if an account leaves that costs the district money. it is a thankless job and this thread is proof. If I didnt have to deal with constant service issues, I could really make an impact winning business - it is everyones job to do customer service and at the minimum, get the packages there ON TIME and IN GOOD CONDITION. I like when the drivers are complaining about split routes and telling me that is why they dont turn in sales leads. Hey dummy, why do you think the route was cut?

I do buy pizza and bring in breakfast if needed - but why butter up to the guy who will be the first to be laid off?

freight reps also have an unlimited budget and work regionally (MANY regional carriers go after a certain nitch freight lane) and that is the expectation of them by their shippers. They are not strategic like UPS. Also, UPS has about 600 times the customers as the largest freight carrier.

I am fired up today, sorry.

I hear you, upssalesguy!!

I see the same thing with the sales force in my district, as well. That's why I get so upset when some of these drivers acted like BD is pushing their work off on them. They don't even have a clue as to what the BD folks go through on a daily bases. Some drivers need to realize that BD is not the department who makes Corporate decisions.

Volume is our bread and butter and everyone should do their share to find the volume opportunities, no matter what department we work under. No, every single lead is not going to sell! Yes, UPS should give drivers time credit via DIAD for customer contact. That's the only way it's going to work. Of course, their will a driver or two that will abuse the customer contact code and never attempt customer contact by submitting a valid lead. But, I think if the DIAD was setup to give the customer contact credit, more drivers would be willing to find the leads. If the credit is already available in the DIAD, the Corporate needs to mandate that center managers train their drivers to use it.

Somehow, someway, operations and BD must find a common ground to grow the volume. Corporate really should complete a real study to find out how to get the drivers credit for customer contact. Drivers need to realize when your volume grows on your route, it will require the center to make another route. Refusing to submit leads because your route is already too heavy for you, is absolutely ridiculous!

badpal. · 07-08-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upssalesguy

it's not the BD guys job - we are conversion account managers, not cold callers. You see fedex, you turn in a lead. THAT IS NOT TOUGH.

yeah, so you work hard and pick up a lot of packages, that is your job, brah. when did people all of a sudden think they can make up their own rules for what they do during the day?

You really did not just use much less type out the word "brah." I hope you don't use these types of terms with the customers.

wisedragonfly · 07-08-2009, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by want to retire

Wow Whiskey.....well said.......but yet the BD guy wants you to do his job also. What's one more task? It goes like this OMS:"There is a new p/u for your area. Where do you want it in your board?" Driver "I can't handle any more p/u's"......OMS:"too bad".......they want to be p/u @ 17:00.......Driver: I can only be @ one place @ a time"..........OMS: blank look.............Manager: "why are you out so late? Customer so and so called in saying you're getting there after closing....".......and so it goes.

want to retire, I have a question for you. How many more years do you need before you can actually retire? I mean, are you a senior driver that's broken from years of delivery? Those package cars do break our drivers up pretty bad. It's a tough job! Or, you are a young guy that is afraid of a little work? Something tells me your a young guy, since you really don't understand that BD does not call the shots.

Just in case you missed this comment from my previous post...

Drivers need to realize when your volume grows on your route, it will require the center to make another route. Refusing to submit leads because your route is already too heavy for YOU, is absolutely ridiculous!

upssalesguy · 07-08-2009, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badpal.

You really did not just use much less type out the word "brah." I hope you don't use these types of terms with the customers.

i could have used a lot of other words, that one worked there.

UpstateNYUPSer · 07-09-2009, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badpal.

You really did not just use much less type out the word "brah." I hope you don't use these types of terms with the customers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upssalesguy

i could have used a lot of other words, that one worked there.

Sales guy sounds like he is an avid "Dog the Bounty Hunter" viewer.

JustTired · 07-09-2009, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wisedragonfly

Drivers need to realize when your volume grows on your route, it will require the center to make another route. Refusing to submit leads because your route is already too heavy for YOU, is absolutely ridiculous!

While I agree in principle, I think you'll find that most drivers have little faith in that being the outcome. Just as we've seen the area covered by the BD people grow (sometimes even double), so it goes for the average driver. It's hard to be overly enthused about looking for more business when you drag yourself home at 8:00 at night - day in and day out. You can beat a horse only so long before it just refuses to move.

A human being can only do a finite amount of work in a day, if for no other reason than time constraints. When that limit is reached, you're at the point of diminishing returns. For a company that prides itself (or at least used to) on being a "safety oriented, our people are our most important asset, etc." business, it sure is hard to tell these days.

I've always said that a company that lives by the "numbers" will die by "numbers". There needs to be standards and goals.....but both have to be realistic. Until that happens, "it is what it is".

Just Numbers · 07-09-2009, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upssalesguy

i work my assssss off. I work with our major customers and spend more time in the offices then the shipping docks. the only time i get noticed is if an account leaves that costs the district money. it is a thankless job and this thread is proof. If I didnt have to deal with constant service issues, I could really make an impact winning business - it is everyones job to do customer service and at the minimum, get the packages there ON TIME and IN GOOD CONDITION. I like when the drivers are complaining about split routes and telling me that is why they dont turn in sales leads. Hey dummy, why do you think the route was cut?

I do buy pizza and bring in breakfast if needed - but why butter up to the guy who will be the first to be laid off?

freight reps also have an unlimited budget and work regionally (MANY regional carriers go after a certain nitch freight lane) and that is the expectation of them by their shippers. They are not strategic like UPS. Also, UPS has about 600 times the customers as the largest freight carrier.

I am fired up today, sorry.

Refer to post #26 and you will be successful instead of beating your head against the wall. Is it easy, no. Does it work, yes!