*********** warning letters

[orangputeh]

This appears to be coming down from corporate because we just had a feeder driver "talked" to for being 3 minutes overallowed on his start work.

So what does he do from now on? He stops at the shop every night to have his brakes adjusted along with anything else he can come up with.

The company, is handling this economic slow down in it's usual negative way. By attacking the very people who built this company in the first place. it is only going to backfire ( which it usually does ) and lower moral and increase resentment.

What should UPS do? They should invite all employees to a breakfast and discuss these challenges in a positive way and invite feedback and make it sound like "We are all in this together" scenario and how we can become stonger in the long run. Speak to us like professionals and ask for our help to weather this storm.

If they would treat us like adults, just imagine what this company would become.

[raceanoncr]

Originally Posted by soberups

In my local, warning letters are automatically "disputed" but not grieved. The merits of the letter itself are not addressed until the next step occurs and the employee is given a suspension letter. Then we go back and determine if the initial warning letter itself was any good, if not then the suspension is nullified.

Years ago, I was given a letter for something I don't remember now. The wording was totally ambiguous, rambling, false. The steward at the time said you can "protest" it but you can't win a grievance on a warning letter. Well, I didn't accept that. I filed for their total lack of intellegence and lack of facts.

I won, the letter was removed. What also has me chucklin is that I flunked high school English twice, yet won on my wording and provin them wrong!

Try it, sober, most of these people are not mental giants.

OK, for all of you management people, jump on me for this comment!

[upsgrunt]

I challenge anyone to name a company, career, job, or position where they expect you to clock out to go to the bathroom- besides UPS. Isn't this in the category of the cost of doing business?

[tiegirl]

Please, somebody, please tell me why our highly educated corporate office cannot see what is happening.

"We have an entire generation of management people who are frightened for their jobs due to the loss in volume. Since they have nothing meaningful or relevant to do, they justify their own continued existence by generating reams of meaningless reports and warning letters to create the illusion of being important."

"Its not what you accomplish that gets you promoted in UPS management; its how good you look on paper pretending to accomplish it."


I see this happening at my center. You could have not said this any better. What can we do about this? When you are the one on the receiving end of trumped up warning letters what can you do?

Originally Posted by soberups

Two of the most bullsh$% warning letters I have ever seen were issued last week on my center.

One guy got a warning letter for "failure to maintain demonstrated performance". He is a good employee whose only crime was to get fuc$%ed over on his last "timestudy".

He had 2 OJS rides that averaged out to 12.59 SPORH with good methods and good work pace documented by the supervisor. Those good methods and pace still caused him to be an hour overallowed.

The following week, without supervision, he averaged 11.73 SPORH and was issued the warning letter....over a difference of .86 SPORH. This is a drop in SPORH of only 6.83% which is statistically insignificant and well within an expected range over a period of time. The company is looking for an overallowed hour that does not exist in the real world so rather than adressing the flawed study they write the guy up instead.


The second BS warning letter was for "failure to properly document personal time."

This employee needed to use the restroom so he used his break time to drive to one. Using data collected via Telematics, it was determined that the elapsed amount of time taken from the time he broke trace until the time he got back on trace was 17.8 minutes rather than the 15 minutes he recorded in the DIAD. So, over a discrepancy of approximately 165 seconds, he was issued a warning letter.

Remember how we were told that the primary function of Telematics was to "improve our safety" and "enhance vehicle maintainence"? What a load of bullsh%$. Telematics serves one purpose; giving desk-bound supervisors the ability to micromanage and harass employees without ever having to leave the comfort of an air-conditioned office.

We have an entire generation of management people who are frightened for their jobs due to the loss in volume. Since they have nothing meaningful or relevant to do, they justify their own continued existence by generating reams of meaningless reports and warning letters to create the illusion of being important.

Its not what you accomplish that gets you promoted in UPS management; its how good you look on paper pretending to accomplish it.

[soberups]

Originally Posted by tiegirl

What can we do about this? When you are the one on the receiving end of trumped up warning letters what can you do?

First of all, you never want to lose sight of the fact that you have more job security than the person who is issuing the warning letter to you.

If they are writing BS warning letters, it is because they are scared, so they want you to be scared also.

Fearful people make stupid decisions. This is where it really helps to be aware of the contract and the disciplinary process that is spelled out within it. If you are honest, do your job to the best of your ability and as instructed...its pretty much impossible for them to fire you.

And as hard as it might seem, try not to take that warning letter personally. Try to remember that the person who is handing it to you isnt really responsible for it. More often than not, the supervisor or manager that you deal with is nothing more than a scared little puppet who has no real authority to make decisions on his own. He is simply doing what he must do to survive. Try not to blame the messenger.

[ixtab]

Originally Posted by soberups

Two of the most bullsh$% warning letters I have ever seen were issued last week on my center.

One guy got a warning letter for "failure to maintain demonstrated performance". He is a good employee whose only crime was to get fuc$%ed over on his last "timestudy".

He had 2 OJS rides that averaged out to 12.59 SPORH with good methods and good work pace documented by the supervisor. Those good methods and pace still caused him to be an hour overallowed.

The following week, without supervision, he averaged 11.73 SPORH and was issued the warning letter....over a difference of .86 SPORH. This is a drop in SPORH of only 6.83% which is statistically insignificant and well within an expected range over a period of time. The company is looking for an overallowed hour that does not exist in the real world so rather than adressing the flawed study they write the guy up instead.

Should've filed a greivance right from the start - a lock-in ride MUST be 3 days - not 2. A greivance would've gotten this SPORH thrown out and that would've been it for this year. (They can only try to lock you in once a year.)

[soberups]

Originally Posted by ixtab

Should've filed a greivance right from the start - a lock-in ride MUST be 3 days - not 2. A greivance would've gotten this SPORH thrown out and that would've been it for this year. (They can only try to lock you in once a year.)

There is no such thing as a "lock-in" ride in the contract.

[JimJimmyJames]

Telematics/GPS doesn't concern me as a feeder driver (for now at least) but I knew when I first heard of it there was going to be trouble with it's implementation.

When I was a package car driver, if I wanted to get a drink, go to the bathroom, talk to a customer I liked, buy lottery tickets, whatever...if it made me fall behind a bit I would run my ass off to catch up. I had housing developments that if I really poured it on I could do around 30+ stops per hour. There was never a problem.

But now, with all this technology, you have to be an automaton now. Because if you do not do the route exactly the way they want you to, no matter if you have always been a safe, consistent driver, they might come after you.

When I saw that they were going to take more and more freedom of how we do our jobs away, I got out of package. I always felt if I was giving you what you expect out of me, performance-wise, I shouldn't be micro-managed.

This appears to be coming down from corporate because we just had a feeder driver "talked" to for being 3 minutes overallowed on his start work.

So what does he do from now on? He stops at the shop every night to have his brakes adjusted along with anything else he can come up with.

They give you on average 18 minutes to start work, find your tractor, pre-trip it, go to your trailer, properly couple to it, pre-trip it, make sure that it is safe to pull it from the door by verifying with sup, close the doors, drive to the gate, have the guard seal the trailer, call out the trailer, and then leave. 18 minutes. Only a completely overzealous manager tries to hold you to that.

If they get too heavy handed in feeders, I will stop using my cell phone on the job for work and you can believe I will not leave the property if even a license plate light is out in the middle of the day.

I know, I know, I am not supposed to use my phone and I should run to the shop for every little thing. But the thing is, I treat UPS like I want them to treat me...by not sweating the little things (As long as the little things don't involve safety. Safety should never be compromised). We should be working as a team.

If we all just want to ball bust each other, our competition will be ready to roll right over us.

[tiegirl]

What is "managements hit list"? How does one make it to this list?

Originally Posted by ups1990

These two offenses, if they are really "offenses" sound very petty at best. Are the two drivers on managements hit list. Why did it go to a warning letter and not a verbal?

Please, let us know how this turns out.

[tiegirl]

?

[Just Numbers]

Originally Posted by upsgrunt

I challenge anyone to name a company, career, job, or position where they expect you to clock out to go to the bathroom- besides UPS. Isn't this in the category of the cost of doing business?

I received two 10 minute PAID breaks every day...so I guess it is the cost of doing business.

[Just Numbers]

Originally Posted by toonertoo

I agree we need to look at both sides. But is .86 or later justified if the studies are decades old. My team says yeah they are old but thats what we have to abide by, that isnt fair.

Tooner,
Not talking about time studies or overallowed. The .86 is sporh and what the driver demonstrates with sup versus without sup and why UPS would be looking at this imo....has nothing to do with time studies or over allowed. Sorry if I mislead you in any way I apologize.

[brownrodster]

Originally Posted by Just Numbers

Tooner,
Not talking about time studies or overallowed. The .86 is sporh and what the driver demonstrates with sup versus without sup and why UPS would be looking at this imo....has nothing to do with time studies or over allowed. Sorry if I mislead you in any way I apologize.

I always go incredibly slower when sups ride with me than without (having them along is like dragging an anchor). That being said there are numerous reason a driver can do his best and his SPORH decrease by .86 the next day.

However, if I were instructed to maintain a certain SPORH I would do what it takes to maintain that SPORH. If that means leaving a pickup before they are done, scanning a missloaded NDA as missed, DR'ing packages in a driveway instead of going to the house then that's what I would do to maintain that productivity. If jim-bobs business wants his crap early but it's faster for me to deliver later in the day I would never go there early again. I would cut out the customer service and focus on productivity.
It's easy to go faster, you just need to cut corners and not care about the customer anymore.

[soberups]

6.83%

Thats what we are talking about here. A 6.83% reduction in SPORH in the week following the two OJS rides that were done on this driver.

The company is trying to solve the "problem" of this particular driver running an an hour overallowed. So they OJS him, he demonstrates good methods and a good work pace...per the sup that rode with him....and he is still an hour overallowed with a SPORH of 12.59.

So he averages 11.73 SPORH the following week, and gets a warning letter for it.

Do we address the flawed timestudy? No. Do we address making improvements in EDD or PAS for this particular route? No. Do we make any effort at all to solve the underlying problem? No.

Instead...we try to bust the drivers balls over a statistically irrelevant variation in his SPORH, in the hopes that he will be intimidated into working off of the clock in order to meet managements unrealistic expectations.

We have 15 minute meetings in the AM with driver and shop steward (half an hour of unproductive time right there) to try and bully and harass him with false threats that have no contractual basis.....all in the vain hope that a measly 6.83% increase in SPORH will, by some miracle, make an entire hour of overallowed time magically disappear.

I swear to God, we have management people working for this company who could hide their own Easter eggs.

[toonertoo]

Originally Posted by Just Numbers

Tooner,
Not talking about time studies or overallowed. The .86 is sporh and what the driver demonstrates with sup versus without sup and why UPS would be looking at this imo....has nothing to do with time studies or over allowed. Sorry if I mislead you in any way I apologize.

I was an hour late with sup.
No need to apologize, Im easily misled

[Pump Up The Volume]

[

going to the bathroom should be considered break time.


An awful lot of salaried personnel seem to be constantly on break throughout the day.
What's good for the gander should be good for the goose.

[ups_vette]

Originally Posted by soberups

My truck is filthy, and after 4 hours of work my hands are filthy. Its company dirt on my hands and it will be washed off on company time.

Your hair grows on "company time", so you must feel it's justified to get your hair cut on "company time"?

[trickpony1]

Originally Posted by ups_vette

Your hair grows on "company time", so you must feel it's justified to get your hair cut on "company time"?

This is priceless.
Everytime Vette posts he gets his plow cleaned.
I'm willing to bet he gets his bell rung before post number 74.

[upsman29]

Originally Posted by tieguy

what defense are you using here if you can say. Its an interesting issue that probably has the labor guys salivating. to summarize this with Sobers issue:

going to the bathroom should be considered break time.

then again past practice may dictate otherwise.

However there has always been questions as to whether driving to the bathroom would be considered part of break. DOT requirements may dictate that the driver is not on break until he has parked and secured his vehicle.

I'm surprised this one has not been heard and argued somewhere yet.

My defense would be this, no part timer at my center is required to punch out to go to the bathroom... If they are allowed to relieve themselves on the clock then I should be able to do so also... Now I wouldn't drive 15 minutes to go to the bathroom being as i'm an adult I think we should be able to hold it unless something is medically wrong that prevents you from being able to do so...

[brownrodster]

When I deliver rural routes I stand in the passenger door and piss from the cab to the ground. I know there's a certain 150 yeard management person here who would nail me to a cross for this. But it is clear to me that if I were to take the time to find a proper bathroom I would be fired for stealing time. And you cannot hold it it. That's not safe. And if it's not safe then don't do it. We need to be safe by choice not by chance.

[upsman29]

Originally Posted by soberups

6.83%

Thats what we are talking about here. A 6.83% reduction in SPORH in the week following the two OJS rides that were done on this driver.

The company is trying to solve the "problem" of this particular driver running an an hour overallowed. So they OJS him, he demonstrates good methods and a good work pace...per the sup that rode with him....and he is still an hour overallowed with a SPORH of 12.59.

So he averages 11.73 SPORH the following week, and gets a warning letter for it.

Do we address the flawed timestudy? No. Do we address making improvements in EDD or PAS for this particular route? No. Do we make any effort at all to solve the underlying problem? No.

Instead...we try to bust the drivers balls over a statistically irrelevant variation in his SPORH, in the hopes that he will be intimidated into working off of the clock in order to meet managements unrealistic expectations.

We have 15 minute meetings in the AM with driver and shop steward (half an hour of unproductive time right there) to try and bully and harass him with false threats that have no contractual basis.....all in the vain hope that a measly 6.83% increase in SPORH will, by some miracle, make an entire hour of overallowed time magically disappear.

I swear to God, we have management people working for this company who could hide their own Easter eggs.

I would check on this, what were the average miles of the 3 day ride compared to the week in question, did he have the same area as he had during the 3 day ride, average packages for the 3 days verse this week, were pickup pieces during the 3dr the same average as the week in question, was his air for the week in question relatively the same as the 3dr... All these things can impact the SPH and they should be looked at... Its very hard to keep a SPH the same because we have so many different things happen each day that can hold us up, UPS has gone away from the over/under because that hasn't worked in their favor over the years... Now they want to lock you in on a SPH and after the 3DR they have added area that is a lot slower to run but want you to still meet the same SPH, I will tell all of you having to deal with this issue, Keep notes of each day of your 3DR detail it with everything in the earlier part of this post... Make sure you know what areas you had for the ride so when you're faced with this in the office you have some defense to explain why you cant meet that SPH... UPS is looking to make examples out of some people and don't let yourself fall in the category...

[soberups]

Originally Posted by ups_vette

Your hair grows on "company time", so you must feel it's justified to get your hair cut on "company time"?

This question is barely worth dignifying with a response, but I'm bored with nothing better to do so what the hell.

No, I do not feel justified in getting a haircut on company time. Hair growth is irrelevant to the work being done.

If my hands get filthy doing UPS's work in the back of UPS's filthy truck, then I will wash that filth off on UPS's time. And if I'm on a rural route and have to spend a few minutes driving to a public restroom, that will be on UPS's time also. If that is not acceptable, then UPS can put a portable toilet/handwash station in the back of the truck. They cant have it both ways.

[toonertoo]

This is just silly, If Im dirty, and I can I take a few minutes to clean up, if I have a place, I will. Looking like a scumbag is not proffesional. In the summer Im filthy to my armpits, as they never, ever clean the trucks. If someone could send me a few seedsof some sort, I could plant them, and stuff would grow.
I dont agree that you can set your kidney, or your bladder to your break time. And it can hurt you to try. Maybe when you are younger, but not as you age. All part of respecting the age and physical condition of an employee.
Yes I also used to worry every single day about losing my job. Its out of my hands. I dont worry anymore, I dont like the idea, or my prospects, but I would survive. Actually I feel much better since I gave up hope. If it happens, Ive done all I can. And when you are a good employee, you should not have to worry everyday, thats just wrong.

[orangputeh]

Originally Posted by JimJimmyJames

Telematics/GPS doesn't concern me as a feeder driver (for now at least) but I knew when I first heard of it there was going to be trouble with it's implementation.

When I was a package car driver, if I wanted to get a drink, go to the bathroom, talk to a customer I liked, buy lottery tickets, whatever...if it made me fall behind a bit I would run my ass off to catch up. I had housing developments that if I really poured it on I could do around 30+ stops per hour. There was never a problem.

But now, with all this technology, you have to be an automaton now. Because if you do not do the route exactly the way they want you to, no matter if you have always been a safe, consistent driver, they might come after you.

When I saw that they were going to take more and more freedom of how we do our jobs away, I got out of package. I always felt if I was giving you what you expect out of me, performance-wise, I shouldn't be micro-managed.



They give you on average 18 minutes to start work, find your tractor, pre-trip it, go to your trailer, properly couple to it, pre-trip it, make sure that it is safe to pull it from the door by verifying with sup, close the doors, drive to the gate, have the guard seal the trailer, call out the trailer, and then leave. 18 minutes. Only a completely overzealous manager tries to hold you to that.

If they get too heavy handed in feeders, I will stop using my cell phone on the job for work and you can believe I will not leave the property if even a license plate light is out in the middle of the day.

I know, I know, I am not supposed to use my phone and I should run to the shop for every little thing. But the thing is, I treat UPS like I want them to treat me...by not sweating the little things (As long as the little things don't involve safety. Safety should never be compromised). We should be working as a team.

If we all just want to ball bust each other, our competition will be ready to roll right over us.

it takes me 15 minutes to find the tractor! then another 15 to pretrip and install my radios. then another 15 to find the trailers. ( doubles ) another 15-20 to build the set and pretrip. another 15 to bring it to the shop to have brakes adjusted and/or find a hiding mechanic. that's why i'm over everyday.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by upsgrunt

I challenge anyone to name a company, career, job, or position where they expect you to clock out to go to the bathroom- besides UPS. Isn't this in the category of the cost of doing business?

you may have a point. At the same time if legal definition came up for break in front of a panel or courtroom its realistically possible they would rule that going to the bathroom is considered break time.

where sobers issue get interesting is stretching that interpretation to include leaving trace to go to the bathroom. There may be DOT guidelines against that definition not to mention the issue of not having facilities available when you're on route.