Local 2727 UPDATE

[beentheredonethat]

Although you may not believe this. I do believe that UPS should pay the highest wages in the industry, for all groups. However, there is a limit to how much higher they can pay us. If we pay $43, and other mechanics make a few dollars less, then a decent bump probably makes sense. But if other mechanics at FDX for example make only 33, then it doesn't make sense to give increases, when the pay is so different already. I don't know what the pay for mechanics are at FDX, but I'd like to know if you folks know that. The other thing that seems odd, is that it seems like many union folks get upset that UPS makes billions in profits. Our profit margin is less then 10%, and of that profit, a lot of it goes towards long term investments in buying jets, building buildings, buying pkg cars. Also it goes towards dividends of shareowners. That's where the majority of the profit goes. If UPS didn't make profits, we'd be in trouble like YRC is right now. It's good (IMO) that UPS is profitable.

[unionman]

Originally Posted by beentheredonethat

Although you may not believe this. I do believe that UPS should pay the highest wages in the industry, for all groups. However, there is a limit to how much higher they can pay us. If we pay $43, and other mechanics make a few dollars less, then a decent bump probably makes sense. But if other mechanics at FDX for example make only 33, then it doesn't make sense to give increases, when the pay is so different already. I don't know what the pay for mechanics are at FDX, but I'd like to know if you folks know that. The other thing that seems odd, is that it seems like many union folks get upset that UPS makes billions in profits. Our profit margin is less then 10%, and of that profit, a lot of it goes towards long term investments in buying jets, building buildings, buying pkg cars. Also it goes towards dividends of shareowners. That's where the majority of the profit goes. If UPS didn't make profits, we'd be in trouble like YRC is right now. It's good (IMO) that UPS is profitable.

Fedex mechanics start at 33 and top at 41.08 in three years. We start at 21 and top out at 43 in 5 years. Fedex has 2500 mechanics for 350 aircraft and we have 920 mechanics for 220 aircraft.

[airbusfxr]

If UPS pays us 50 bucks an hour it will not make a dent in the money bucket. We have 920 mechanics assigned work of 1400 mechanic man-hours, and subcontracting is past the contractual limit. FDX is an airline with trucks, UPS is a trucking company with airplanes, it takes money to run an airline. UPS wants FDX to become a trucking company when UPS should worry about it own problems with a possibility of a service disruption during peak.

[BigErn]

Package Car Mechanics make $30.35 in Washington State.

[beentheredonethat]

Originally Posted by airbusfxr

If UPS pays us 50 bucks an hour it will not make a dent in the money bucket. We have 920 mechanics

I'll agree that $10 more per hour times 2000 hrs * 1000 mechanics is $20 million per year and UPS will still be profitable. But we should all consider that UPS had an OR of only .93 in other words, for every dollar in revenue, we spent 93 cents to pay our people, fuel our pkg cars, pay for insurance etc. That isn't that good. Can you imagine opening your own business and only make 7 cents on the dollar. And then of the 7 cents. You have to pay the govt on that profit? UPS isn't in business to not make any money. What you are asking for is almost a 20% increase in pay. If all segments got a 20% increase in pay. UPS would be losing money (big time). You already indicated you are the highest paid, there's a point where we can't go much more since we will price ourselves out of business.

[unionman]

Originally Posted by beentheredonethat

I'll agree that $10 more per hour times 2000 hrs * 1000 mechanics is $20 million per year and UPS will still be profitable. But we should all consider that UPS had an OR of only .93 in other words, for every dollar in revenue, we spent 93 cents to pay our people, fuel our pkg cars, pay for insurance etc. That isn't that good. Can you imagine opening your own business and only make 7 cents on the dollar. And then of the 7 cents. You have to pay the govt on that profit? UPS isn't in business to not make any money. What you are asking for is almost a 20% increase in pay. If all segments got a 20% increase in pay. UPS would be losing money (big time). You already indicated you are the highest paid, there's a point where we can't go much more since we will price ourselves out of business.

UPS could lose $20 million dollars in one night. We are a small group that plays a major role in UPS's best opportunity to increase revenue with express packages. Basically taking it to FEDX and DHL. If you want to talk about saving money with labor, why don't you take a look at the layers off management in the airline? Its way out of control. We only want job security and a 3% raise, that isnt asking for too much is it?

[JETDOC]

Job security is most important. We have found more logbooks full of work that has been done in china than ever before. We had a 767 last week with all 25 pages filled out with work that was done overseas.That work was to be done by our members. A few bucks an hour and benefits would be nice, but right now it seems the cuts in manpower will never stop. Up in ANC we are ready to walk!!!

[mrv]

The next step for the company will be to lay off AMTS to minimum staffing of 840. This will be done to appy more pressure on our Union to accept the company's offer. Hopefully our Union leadership will stand strong and not ask us to do OT bans and MOU's. These tatics just show weak leadership and resolve. Nows the time to take a stand!!!

[Hoaxster]

Originally Posted by unionman

UPS could lose $20 million dollars in one night. We are a small group that plays a major role in UPS's best opportunity to increase revenue with express packages.

[upssalesguy]

a stand against what? making the most in the industry? good luck with all that.

[mrv]

Originally Posted by upssalesguy

a stand against what? making the most in the industry? good luck with all that.

Ups AMT's Start at 21$ an hour, year five we are at 27.50 and yr six 43$ an hr. Fdx AMT's start at 33 and top out at 41.50 in yr 3. So even though we top out higher than FDX we will never get close to there wages due to the progrssion. This isn't about the pay. Its about UPS tring to gut our contract. Ups is taking advantage of the economy to scare the membership. They are laying off AMT's in an attempt intiminate our union into accepting a bad contract.

[orangputeh]

Come on people!!! UPS only made profits of 15 million dollars a day last quarter instead of the usual 25 so why can't you cut them a break???

seriously, I remember the 97 strike like it was yesterday and kept every bit of propagander that the company put out during it.

i also remember as the strike went on there were less pickets out there manning the lines. one sunday i was the only one until a pilot came along and stood with me all day in the hot sun.

i'll stand with you guys .

[beentheredonethat]

Originally Posted by orangputeh

Come on people!!! UPS only made profits of 15 million dollars a day last quarter instead of the usual 25 so why can't you cut them a break???

seriously, I remember the 97 strike like it was yesterday and kept every bit of propagander that the company put out during it.

Do you remember the propaganda from both sides? Remember the teamsters didn't want to give up the pension fund? Remember they didn't even let you vote on the contract. Remember how for the next contract UPS bailed out the fund to the tune of 6 billion? Remember how Central States is still in a world of hurt now? Wouldn't it have been better for Central State UPSer's to have had more years under the UPS pension, vs the central states. So long as you remember back then. You should remember everything.

[airbusfxr]

This is a new struggle, we were locked out in '97 and we had a valid contract at the time. This time it will be us and you will be locked out per IBT Constitution. We are being asked to pay health care, get a 1% raise for 10 or more years, and give work to China and Mexico. If we get this dont you think UPS will want you to pay for health care in your next contract. We have had 10% layed off and not 1 sup, manager, or support team member has hit the street. We still have time controlled items for each fleet and somehow we less people to do more work. How many planes have landed this year in an emergency situation? SWA had a hole in the roof, AF had one end up in the ocean, etc etc, UPS has never had a serious incident and it is up to us, 10% less to maintain the highest level of safety. We only want to share in the success of the company, our workgroup is small but we provide massive profit per employee.

[beentheredonethat]

Originally Posted by airbusfxr

This is a new struggle, we were locked out in '97 and we had a valid contract at the time. This time it will be us and you will be locked out per IBT Constitution. We are being asked to pay health care, get a 1% raise for 10 or more years, and give work to China and Mexico. If we get this dont you think UPS will want you to pay for health care in your next contract. We have had 10% layed off and not 1 sup, manager, or support team member has hit the street. We still have time controlled items for each fleet and somehow we less people to do more work. How many planes have landed this year in an emergency situation? SWA had a hole in the roof, AF had one end up in the ocean, etc etc, UPS has never had a serious incident and it is up to us, 10% less to maintain the highest level of safety. We only want to share in the success of the company, our workgroup is small but we provide massive profit per employee.

When you say 1% raise are you saying the new rate will go from $43 to $43.43 or it will go up 10% (for the 10 years) to roughly $47.30?

With either dollars amount you'll still be the highest paid. And at $47.30 you won't find many folks sympathizing with your position. Everyone, and I mean everyone at UPS is a key component to our success. This includes our drivers, our inside PT employees, Fdr drivers, mgmt team, pilots, mechanics, clerical etc. Companies are in busines to make money. Right now the company makes $.07 for every dollar it brings in. Would you want to run a company and get that kind of return? Or would you expect more?
If you strike, and all teamsters back you and we have a work stoppage. You may win the battle. But all of us will lose the war. We'll see a lot more diversion to FDX. Even less volume then now, more layoffs etc.

You mentioned that mechanics are layed off, but no mgmt. I showed in prior posts, we have reduced mgmt big time in the districts and regions. Then you said no mgmt in the air function has been reduced. Maybe you're right, maybe you're not. I don't know. I find it hard to believe you know the exact numbers of folks working in mgmt in the air function.
But let's assume you're right, lets go to paying for health care. We already do in mgmt. We've been doing it for years now. Now, UPS is asking you to share the burden. You can't use the line that mgmt hasn't suffered, since we have already. About 20-25 years ago, there was no RPS\FDX Ground. Every one of those pkgs could be\should be a UPS pkg. Customers diverted for a multitude of reasons. If we strike again, they have capacity to take even more volume. We (the whole company we) will be in trouble with another strike. But, I know, you'll dismiss this since I'm in mgmt, and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

[airbusfxr]

No airline management or AOTs or Business Professionals have been put out in the cold. Heck we have had the DC 8 pilots drawing full pay and benefits and they dont even have to come to get the money. Top that the Pilots management AINT layed off anyone and the 727 and DC8 managers are still drawing full pay flying a desk. We, the mechanics, are the smallest work group that produces the most revenue per employee at UPS. We have been without a contract and a raise since Nov 2005. Our management team has raked in pay raises in each year, big MIP, Grade 20s bags of money, and every other work group has at least got 4 years of raises and COLA. Mr. Beenthere, you are a ground expert, but, the airline is run different and the quicker you remember the better off you will be. I wish you were able to access the pilots and mechanics boards, you could learn alot about UPSCO.

[unionman]

Originally Posted by airbusfxr

No airline management or AOTs or Business Professionals have been put out in the cold. Heck we have had the DC 8 pilots drawing full pay and benefits and they dont even have to come to get the money. Top that the Pilots management AINT layed off anyone and the 727 and DC8 managers are still drawing full pay flying a desk. We, the mechanics, are the smallest work group that produces the most revenue per employee at UPS. We have been without a contract and a raise since Nov 2005. Our management team has raked in pay raises in each year, big MIP, Grade 20s bags of money, and every other work group has at least got 4 years of raises and COLA. Mr. Beenthere, you are a ground expert, but, the airline is run different and the quicker you remember the better off you will be. I wish you were able to access the pilots and mechanics boards, you could learn alot about UPSCO.

I would gladly give up any raise and even take a pay cut if I could get the defined pension that every other Upser has. Our contract needs many improvements that the top dollar doesnt address.

[747jetmech]

just remember we the mechanics dont want to strike. that would be terriable for everyone.. UPS gave the pilots topay during great economic times while our contract was stalled.. we just want a fair contract. maybe we should wait another 4 years and get top pay again. and still not pay for health care ins

[JETDOC]

I don't know about your status, but right now a lot of us won't be here in 4 years. Should we lay down and let them throw us out? Or should we stand together and fight?

[Mr. Overspeed]

I don’t plan on being with UPS that much longer as well…It’s too bad the UPS Schutzstaffelcan’t see the long term benefits of a healthy management-labor relationship.
I think ANC is going to be an exciting place to work for the next few months.

[mrv]

Originally Posted by unionman

I would gladly give up any raise and even take a pay cut if I could get the defined pension that every other Upser has. Our contract needs many improvements that the top dollar doesnt address.

Just the kind of Unionman the company is looking for!

[mrv]

Originally Posted by Mr. Overspeed

I don’t plan on being with UPS that much longer as well…It’s too bad the UPS Schutzstaffelcan’t see the long term benefits of a healthy management-labor relationship.
I think ANC is going to be an exciting place to work for the next few months.

Real exciting working in the dark at 20 below.

[airbusfxr]

I will give the hotline report tomorrow, hopefully the "strike vote" per RLA of 1929 will be the top topic. I think we are all ready to show UPS that 4 years of record profits, record bonuses, pilot's rewarding contract, and MIP, that it is time to pay the people that have contributed to this success. We are the smallest work group that provides the most revenue per employee in the whole company. We are only wanting a fair contract for helping UPSCO provide worldwide service with safety and service as job one. If we have to ask our brothers and sisters to walk per IBT rules then we will, they asked in '97 and we stood by them till their dispute was settled. The IBT, mediator, and finally the President will all have to sign off per RLA before we can strike. The strike vote first, then release from Mediation, then the "30 day cooling off period", then by the middle of December it will be done. Does UPS want customers to move because of 920 mechanics? Why does UPS try to bully the people that have helped them fix airplanes to fly around the world? The timing of a December strike will send customers to FDX in droves.

[nhguy]

airbusfxr,

It is a shame that it has gone on for four years and still no settlement. I like most of our mechanics and feel they are vitally important to the UPS system, however, we all need to be real as well. UPS management people and clerical people have been paying into their medical benefits for many years now. When I retired, I was paying almost $400.00 a month. The last several years that I worked my raise didn't cover the taxes or increased cost in my medical. The management people have realistically been going backwards for several years. It stinks for everybody, but it is a fact of life that health care costs are starting to cripple all employers. I hope they get this thing done so that their is a happy medium for all.

"Remember the big fish always eats the little ones"

[JETDOC]

UPS has 438 people that are managers or supervisors on the a/c mx side. 2727 currently has a little over 900 mechanics. They have been pushing all of them through as much a/c mx training as possible. After getting some inside info. It seems they are preparing to do our job when the time comes. I wonder how they all will feel when the company gets rid of 30% of them after this thing gets settled.