UPS Aircraft Emergency Landing - Brown Cafe

Osprey413 · 09-11-2009, 12:09 PM

http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/a...ittsburgh.html

I'm guessing either a faulty sensor or a faulty light? Good thing it wasn't a real fire.

airbusfxr · 09-11-2009, 02:51 PM

My friend NO UPS MECHANIC would ever do that. It is a Federal offense and you would lose your certification and end up in Fort Levenworth. Thousands of planes take off and land each day and every day there are maybe 10 emgerency landings. The fact could be that a chinaman or mexican could have hooked up wires not going by a manual written in English and it took several months for the connector to come apart or chafe through. UPS has had one hull lose and it was due to a shipper.

Floridacargocat · 09-11-2009, 03:03 PM

whatever will come out of this one, I am aware of "fire alarm" signals in flight deck instrumentation when tiny dust particles have caused this. The latest I am aware of is an incident in India with curry poweder.
A friend of mine confirmed that it happened to him under similar circumstances.
"False" positive. But you have to take the necessary precautionary action.

brownman15 · 09-11-2009, 06:48 PM

now i know why we had late airs. had a meet point in the afternoon

Mr.Grey · 09-11-2009, 11:20 PM

Lets set the record strait here:

Air is a place with no BS.

the pilots followed the training to the letter, thank you pilots.
the AIR mechanics do their job or the plane don't fly no questions asked why.
management and union do not mess up when a 50 million $ plane and at lest 2 and many more live are at steak every time we finish .

A package car breaks no one dies.
the car catches fire , get out and run .
a haz mat malfunctioned and toxic fumes affects the operator .

We are not better we just have no margin of error in our ops .this give us some leway in our choices that seem insane within UPS .

10 year back ground check
yearly FAA security badges (think DMV on PMS with a hangover)
$10,000 fine for 1 undocumented Has-Mat that the FAA found
Imediate FREE trip to real jail (+ your sup) for working with out your FAA ID

If a decision is made , it is with good reason. we do not screw around with air. it is a totally differnt operation with a ton of money behind it and very high expectations on all levels of UPS and our customers.

I will anwser any questions to make this point.

airbusfxr · 09-12-2009, 06:13 AM

I think pickup's post was made before the brain was engaged. We all have a commitment to service but safety first. This is one of the problems that we have with mgt and taking one "out of service" has everyone from the sup to the wardern looking and asking questions, alot of them. Everyday there are conference calls and the bosses go over each Out Of Service aircraft and they are grilled. It is How, Why, and Who and When will it fly, every incident is reported to the FAA. This is why we are in a contract dispute for fair pay, health care, retro, and subcontracting, we provide a service and UPS has the resources to pay us for moving 16% of the packages that generate 75% of the profit that the Grade 20's enjoy. We also understand that our pilots and drivers are the heart of our operation not Grade 20s and we must all stand together because all of us are or will be under contractual attack. Union members are the ones that make Grade 20s beach homes, country clubs, and jet-setting lives happen.

UpstateNYUPSer · 09-12-2009, 06:23 AM

Pickup's post represents the cynicism and pessimism with which a lot of people view our world. Mechanics, whether UPS, Soutwest, or Puddle Jumper Airline, are professionals and would never engage in a practice which could put others in harms way. This is not to say that cost cutting practices are not employed but the safety of others is paramount and intentionally diasbling or impairing a safety item is something that is simply not condoned.

cachsux · 09-12-2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Grey

A package car breaks no one dies.

Stand in front of one with a brake failure and make that statement again.

Mr.Grey · 09-12-2009, 09:12 AM

i was meaning a non-safty critical item like the motor dies . in a package car you steer safely to the side . In the air it's a can cause a lot of deaths very quickly.

cachsux · 09-12-2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Grey

i was meaning a non-safty critical item like the motor dies . in a package car you steer safely to the side . In the air it's a can cause a lot of deaths very quickly.

The motor dies the power steering stops,the power steering stops...etc. I get the point your making and agree.

Floridacargocat · 09-12-2009, 06:38 PM

Extract:
"$10,000 fine for 1 undocumented Has-Mat that the FAA found
Imediate FREE trip to real jail (+ your sup) for working with out your FAA ID"

Fines for HazMat violations can be found in 49 CFR 107 Appendix A to Subpart D of Part 107—Guidelines for Civil Penalties. A dry but still interesting read. A nice mirror on the wall.
HazMat is a serious matter; unfortunately in a lot of preventable incidents, available information/ and/or possible partial information has not been connected. Next step would be action, and then it is up to the operators of the system to act accordingly.
After the last near-miss on a Fedex MD11 (due to electronic cigarettes), it is my firm belief (regrettably) that an express courier company will lose an airplane with fatalities incurred, and then all hell will break loose.
And the most likely reason: a small Li-type battery. Not declared (and the law might not even have required it to be declared). Sad.

rocket man · 09-12-2009, 10:37 PM

im glad plane was ok NO in here said it happened on 9/11/8 YEARS TO THE DAY.

pickup · 09-13-2009, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocket man

im glad plane was ok NO in here said it happened on 9/11/8 YEARS TO THE DAY.

you just did

brownone · 09-13-2009, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airbusfxr

I think pickup's post was made before the brain was engaged. We all have a commitment to service but safety first. This is one of the problems that we have with mgt and taking one "out of service" has everyone from the sup to the wardern looking and asking questions, alot of them. Everyday there are conference calls and the bosses go over each Out Of Service aircraft and they are grilled. It is How, Why, and Who and When will it fly, every incident is reported to the FAA. This is why we are in a contract dispute for fair pay, health care, retro, and subcontracting, we provide a service and UPS has the resources to pay us for moving 16% of the packages that generate 75% of the profit that the Grade 20's enjoy. We also understand that our pilots and drivers are the heart of our operation not Grade 20s and we must all stand together because all of us are or will be under contractual attack. Union members are the ones that make Grade 20s beach homes, country clubs, and jet-setting lives happen.

Get a clue and get passed all your BS about how you are mistreated and under paid. UPS mechanics are the highest paid in the industry. If you hate UPS leave and go find another job that pays you as well as we do. The reason you do not leave is you can not find a job, like what you have here. Management did not get a raise this year because of the current state of the economy. What makes you so special that the economy does not affect you? The only thing correct in your post is that UPS drivers are the heart of this operation. You could never survive as a driver, so do not compare yourself to on.

airbusfxr · 09-13-2009, 09:19 AM

Grade 20s got raises, and I have been without for 4 years while you have stuff MIP in your pockets. Just think you are a low level sup that couldnt make it as a driver. Now your drivers are making more money than you and since you are an underperformer you will be run off soon.

pickup · 09-13-2009, 09:27 AM

I have asked a moderator that post # 2 and post # 10 (my posts) be stricken from the record, which hopefully he will do. They were statements that were wrong to make and later today, I will offer an apology to those who deserve it . Enough said on this and please refrain from mentioning the theme I touched upon. I will explain later. I have to go out now

UpstateNYUPSer · 09-13-2009, 09:29 AM

Pickup, you are a stand up guy and this is the right thing to do. Thanks. Dave.

P.S. Come up to Fenway and I'll buy you a beer.

pickup · 09-13-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

Pickup, you are a stand up guy and this is the right thing to do. Thanks. Dave.

P.S. Come up to Fenway and I'll buy you a beer.

That is kind of you to say, upstate. Looks like your team might very well be playing post season baseball up there as boston is putting some distance between itself and Texas. doubtful they will catch the yankees (they are winning at this time of writing ) . Whatever happens, there will be no chance of a mets/red sox world series this year.

I am still waiting for the posts to be deleted (I have contacted another moderator as the initial one might have gone off duty two seconds before I sent my message) Toonertoo, where are you?

pickup · 09-13-2009, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mxguy

Are you insane, or just a moron? I believe an apology is in order

You are quite correct mxguy, an apology is in order and overdue. After a long delayed good night's sleep, I realized the error of my thinking. I asked the moderators to delete my offending posts and remove a trace of one in the post of another poster.

I posted after a night of work and was not thinking thoughtfully. It was starting to increasingly dawn on me , as days went by, the wrongness of what I posted.

No. 1 - it is not my job to speculate on things I know little about . That is the job of insiders(of which I am not ) and the NTSB.

No. 2 - I besmirched the reputation of the mechanics that work on these planes. It is a difficult job you do knowing that the lives of many depend on the tasks that you do. To suggest as a possibility, that which I did ,was gravely wrong. I besmirched your reputations and for that , I am deeply ashamed and apologetic. I hope you accept my apology for in truth, I do salute you all.

No. 3 - It is one thing to idly think. It is another to post an idle potentially harmful thought on a forum on which not only others can look at but whose contents can eventually be found through search engines such as google . (It sometimes takes a few days for their web spiders to grab hold of such thoughts, but given time and they do) . So, if anyone wanted to research the story via google, my posts might very well pop up and at the very least, plant bad thoughts in other's heads.

So, to those who saw my now vanished posts, I apologize. To those who didn't , you might be scratching your heads. I prefer not to name the theme of what these posts were about for I do not want it to be found on a search engine or to be seen by outsiders(as this is an open forum)

Again my deepest apologies.

No responses are necessary
but all the same
if you feel you must respond
dare not mention the theme's name

Thanks

brownone · 09-13-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airbusfxr

Grade 20s got raises, and I have been without for 4 years while you have stuff MIP in your pockets. Just think you are a low level sup that couldnt make it as a driver. Now your drivers are making more money than you and since you are an underperformer you will be run off soon.

After 23 years and several different Districts and states, I doubt I will run off soon. Grade 20's did not get a raise in 2009. You did not get a raise for the last four years because youe feel you are entitled to more than you deserve and UPS refuses to pay more than you are worth. I hope that your group does not go on strike, but if you do hope UPS is smart enought to see it out this time and end this foolishness once and for all. We will not be held hostage by the threat of a strike.

Dis-organized Labor · 09-14-2009, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airbusfxr

Grade 20s got raises, and I have been without for 4 years while you have stuff MIP in your pockets. Just think you are a low level sup that couldnt make it as a driver. Now your drivers are making more money than you and since you are an underperformer you will be run off soon.

This is typical mechjanic jibberish coming from the same guy day in and day out. He's probably on a company computer instead of sitting in his (I mean my) truck convincing himself of his significance. He probably graduated HS with a low GPA, became an A&P and now he's "AIRBUSFXR.....STAR OF THE UNION AND ALL THINGS POLITICAL AND MECHANICAL". I'll bet he's an expert on medical and legal issues as well.
MIP is for the brains of the operation, not the grunts like you. AIRBUSFXR TO THE RESCUE.............

airbusfxr · 09-14-2009, 06:02 AM

I am not an expert on anything expect UPSCO. Brownone, it seems you have been with the company about the same as I, have many times have you managed an air operation? You are the type that sits in the hub, and jumps and throws things when the air arrives late into your center and all you do is blame pilots and mechanics for late air. I know your type, always with you feet planted on the hands of the person below you on the ladder and your nose firmly planted on the person directly above you on the UPS ladder. You need to read the Reuters article and educated yourself on the issues. Now for DOL, "you cant handle the truth" and yes I know nothing about medical and legal issue, but I do not post about those issues.

Dis-organized Labor · 09-14-2009, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airbusfxr

I am not an expert on anything expect UPSCO. Brownone, it seems you have been with the company about the same as I, have many times have you managed an air operation? You are the type that sits in the hub, and jumps and throws things when the air arrives late into your center and all you do is blame pilots and mechanics for late air. I know your type, always with you feet planted on the hands of the person below you on the ladder and your nose firmly planted on the person directly above you on the UPS ladder. You need to read the Reuters article and educated yourself on the issues. Now for DOL, "you cant handle the truth" and yes I know nothing about medical and legal issue, but I do not post about those issues.

"HEY LOOK AT ME EVERYBODY, AIRBUSFXR..."HERO OF THE UNION" I USED THE WORD "REUTERS" LOOK HOW SMART I AM.

I'M SO MUCH SMARTER THAN EVERYONE AT UPS. LOOK AT ME!!!"

Can't handle the truth???? You wouldn't know "truth" if you tripped over it. "Spin" yes, that you know.

dannyboy · 09-14-2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

A package car breaks no one dies.
the car catches fire , get out and run

Mr Gray

Sir, I understand the point you are trying to make.

But just over the last 12-15 months, there have been at least two brothers in brown that lost their lives, one burned to death in his package car, and one died as a result of a suspected steering malfunction.

Any malfunction of equipment that is safety related can have deadly results. I understand and appreciate that when you send up a plane with our cargo and pilots, you take extreme precautions to make sure everything is in working order.

But to downplay the response to safety issues just because our wheels never leave the ground as no big deal just got under my skin.

d

Floridacargocat · 09-14-2009, 03:03 PM

an experienced flight crew will take information from sensors placed throughout the aircraft and act accordingly. "False positives" are known to happen, but when the signals are the right one and proper immediate action is not taken (including non-compliance of company policy - see Swissair 101 JFK-GVA), bad things will happen.
Fedex recently had a near-miss in an MD-11 because of electronic cigarettes on fire ) damn Li-batteries).
Basic rules that are drilled into pilots from PPL to ATP are:
- aviate
- navigate
- communicate.
At least that's how I learned it.
Sensors do not distinguish between fine particles of curry powder and the physical effects of a real fire.
The pilots get a signal" Something is not right" and they are trained to act accordingly.