A supervisor stands up to the IE manager...and pays the price

[raceanoncr]

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

Tie's posts/threads were deleted because several homophobes objected to it's content.

Um...I didn't get to see Tie's posts/threads, um, before they were deleted. So, uh, is there a way I could access them, uh, just so that, um, I could, um, beware of such, uh, conduct in the, uh, future?

[cachsux]

I never knew a couple of people so insecure in their sexuality that they could be "swayed" by a picture or video could cause such an uproar. I think these folks should be named,for their own safety,so that I or any other UPSer don`t accidentally bend over in our tight masculine uniforms and send them over the edge into a life of homosexual debauchery and sin.

Or they could just get a life.

[MonavieLeaker]

Originally Posted by tieguy

I love you too.

Im union youre management not possible

[Hoaxster]

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

Fixed it for you, Hoke.

I hear Cheryl is offering her "objective moderating" class again--it appears as though you may have missed it last time--may I suggest you attend this time. Dave.

Perhaps your watching that video got you all fogged up or your computer screen anyway.

You are usually sharper than this. Sounding a bit like 705red now ... he thinks anytime I'm on BC I am Moderating.

I did not do any moderating related to the hot boys video or sobers or ties posts. I was simply harassing people ... a favorite past time of mine!

[satellitedriver]

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

I was simply harassing people ... a favorite past time of mine!

Back off,
Bearded one.
That's my job.

[dilligaf]

[quote=Hoaxster;602206]Perhaps your watching that video got you all fogged up or your computer screen anyway.

You are usually sharper than this. Sounding a bit like 705red now ... he thinks anytime I'm on BC I am Moderating.

I did not do any moderating related to the hot boys video or sobers or ties posts. I was simply harassing people ... a favorite past time of mine![/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by satellitedriver

Back off,
Bearded one.
That's my job.

You guys harrass people?!?!?!?!?!?! Whoda thunk it!

[brownIEman]

Flipping chanels last night and came upon Star Wars during this scene. Made me think of this thread and chuckle.

Sober, it really is a good analogy, I can recall many, many conference calls in which some poor supervisor got the Darth Vader treatment from an IE manager.

But just for fun, lets take the analogy a bit further. The supervisor, you see, is not powerless. He too can tap into the Force, and defend himself from Vader, if his Jedi's will back him. The Force, in this case, is of course the power that binds all things, controls all things. The numbers. If a sup stands up the the IE manager and tells him his Dark side numbers of 45 routes with a given volume is insane and cruel to the drivers, he is headed for trouble. However, let us say he goes against the evil lord and dispatches 47 routes to lighten everyones day a bit and help his drivers out. Vader is out for blood at this point. But wait, what if his Jedi (drivers) bring in the work in much less time than the prior day with 45 routes. Say the day we ran Darth's plan we had an average paid day of 10.5 hours. With the sups day, say on the same volume, we get an average paid day of 8.75 hours. When you add it all up, the sup can show that his plan produced a less expensive per piece operating day. At which point Granmall Tarkin (the Operations Manager) will politely but clearly tell Darth the IE manager to STFU.

Sadly, I have yet to see it. Had a friend move out of IE to a dispatch position in a center. He put on extra routes in opposition to the IE plan to ease up the work load. The drivers with the lighter loads in their cars had the normal human reaction "ah nice, car is not jammed up, not gonna be a bad day, I can relax abit". The paid day did not go down one bit. I was on the call the next day. I can assure you, Darth had a field day on my friends skull. I can also assure you he never tried that again.

just another perspective...

[Sleeve_meet_Heart]

Originally Posted by brownIEman

Flipping chanels last night and came upon Star Wars during this scene. Made me think of this thread and chuckle.

Sober, it really is a good analogy, I can recall many, many conference calls in which some poor supervisor got the Darth Vader treatment from an IE manager.

But just for fun, lets take the analogy a bit further. The supervisor, you see, is not powerless. He too can tap into the Force, and defend himself from Vader, if his Jedi's will back him. The Force, in this case, is of course the power that binds all things, controls all things. The numbers. If a sup stands up the the IE manager and tells him his Dark side numbers of 45 routes with a given volume is insane and cruel to the drivers, he is headed for trouble. However, let us say he goes against the evil lord and dispatches 47 routes to lighten everyones day a bit and help his drivers out. Vader is out for blood at this point. But wait, what if his Jedi (drivers) bring in the work in much less time than the prior day with 45 routes. Say the day we ran Darth's plan we had an average paid day of 10.5 hours. With the sups day, say on the same volume, we get an average paid day of 8.75 hours. When you add it all up, the sup can show that his plan produced a less expensive per piece operating day. At which point Granmall Tarkin (the Operations Manager) will politely but clearly tell Darth the IE manager to STFU.

Sadly, I have yet to see it. Had a friend move out of IE to a dispatch position in a center. He put on extra routes in opposition to the IE plan to ease up the work load. The drivers with the lighter loads in their cars had the normal human reaction "ah nice, car is not jammed up, not gonna be a bad day, I can relax abit". The paid day did not go down one bit. I was on the call the next day. I can assure you, Darth had a field day on my friends skull. I can also assure you he never tried that again.

just another perspective...

How long were you a delivery driver for?

[brownIEman]

Originally Posted by Sleeve_meet_Heart

How long were you a delivery driver for?

never had the pleasure.

What is the relevance of the question?

[Sleeve_meet_Heart]

Originally Posted by brownIEman

Sadly, I have yet to see it. Had a friend move out of IE to a dispatch position in a center. He put on extra routes in opposition to the IE plan to ease up the work load. The drivers with the lighter loads in their cars had the normal human reaction "ah nice, car is not jammed up, not gonna be a bad day, I can relax abit". The paid day did not go down one bit. I was on the call the next day. I can assure you, Darth had a field day on my friends skull. I can also assure you he never tried that again.

just another perspective...

So with lighter loads in some cars, and you make the assumption every driver with lighter loads in the center went "ahhh nice, car is not jammed up, ill work slower?"

Having never driven before?

You know what they say about assuming..

[brownIEman]

Originally Posted by Sleeve_meet_Heart

So with lighter loads in some cars, and you make the assumption every driver with lighter loads in the center went "ahhh nice, car is not jammed up, ill work slower?"

Having never driven before?

You know what they say about assuming..

You are correct, it does sound like I am stating an assumed fact. I withdraw it. So consider it not something I feel I know is true, consider it one proposed theory.

If you have another for a group of drivers having fewer average stops and fewer piece counts yet coming in on average in the same amount of time I would like to hear it. Weather and road conditions were the same, so it was not that. Stop distribution was also almost identical, just spread among over more routes.

As an added piece of data, misload numbers where nearly identical. In fact, as I recall, there were fewer misloads on the day routes were added.

BTW, re-reading it also looks like I am saying drivers with lesser work loads are making a conscious decision to work slower. While I believe my theory to be valid, I do not think the lesser performance with less work is a conscious thing. I believe it to be more subconscious. And While I have not been a driver, I have been on many, many rides over multiple days, and seen the change in a driver from a day when the car is light and when it is bricked out. Most drivers I have ridden with tend to be stressed and push themselves harder and faster with heavier loads in an effor to get through it all. That has been my experience...

[Sleeve_meet_Heart]

Originally Posted by brownIEman

You are correct, it does sound like I am stating an assumed fact. I withdraw it. So consider it not something I feel I know is true, consider it one proposed theory.

If you have another for a group of drivers having fewer average stops and fewer piece counts yet coming in on average in the same amount of time I would like to hear it. Weather and road conditions were the same, so it was not that. Stop distribution was also almost identical, just spread among over more routes.

As an added piece of data, misload numbers where nearly identical. In fact, as I recall, there were fewer misloads on the day routes were added.

BTW, re-reading it also looks like I am saying drivers with lesser work loads are making a conscious decision to work slower. While I believe my theory to be valid, I do not think the lesser performance with less work is a conscious thing. I believe it to be more subconscious. And While I have not been a driver, I have been on many, many rides over multiple days, and seen the change in a driver from a day when the car is light and when it is bricked out. Most drivers I have ridden with tend to be stressed and push themselves harder and faster with heavier loads in an effor to get through it all. That has been my experience...

Fair enough. And you are probably correct in some cases. Not sure about all, or even 50%. I know quite a few drivers that would slug along in a blown out load and whip through an 8 hour dispatch.

[Dustyroads]

I think, in the case of more mature drivers, one has to work slower with the heavier dispatches, just to pace oneself to make it through a 10 or 11 hour dispatch. If I have 8 hours of work, I can work faster and harder, as I'm only having to work/drive for 8 hours. If I know that I will have to complete 11 hours of work, I must work slower all day, to have the strength and energy to complete my day safely.

[brownIEman]

Originally Posted by Dustyroads

I think, in the case of more mature drivers, one has to work slower with the heavier dispatches, just to pace oneself to make it through a 10 or 11 hour dispatch. If I have 8 hours of work, I can work faster and harder, as I'm only having to work/drive for 8 hours. If I know that I will have to complete 11 hours of work, I must work slower all day, to have the strength and energy to complete my day safely.

As really it should be. Also, you would help your on-road/and or dispatch supervisor make the argument that the center is more productive with slightly fewer stops per car.

Unfortunately, most of the time it is the case that a center is more productive the more stops per car that are pushed into the routes. Which is why Darth is such a fan of stuffing the cars to the gills.

[Sleeve_meet_Heart]

Originally Posted by brownIEman

And While I have not been a driver, I have been on many, many rides over multiple days, and seen the change in a driver from a day when the car is light and when it is bricked out. Most drivers I have ridden with tend to be stressed and push themselves harder and faster with heavier loads in an effor to get through it all. That has been my experience...

That is likely due to the fact it was a ride-along to begin with. Although I wasnt there to be the judge of that, when a sup rides along with me, I'm going to hit it pretty hard and make sure not to cut any corners at the same time. This is a much more difficult job when you follow all methods, take an hour lunch and all breaks, and etc. I think, at least in many cases, you would have seen a different driver outside of the ride-along on those days.

[Jones]

Originally Posted by Sleeve_meet_Heart

That is likely due to the fact it was a ride-along to begin with. Although I wasnt there to be the judge of that, when a sup rides along with me, I'm going to hit it pretty hard and make sure not to cut any corners at the same time. This is a much more difficult job when you follow all methods, take an hour lunch and all breaks, and etc. I think, at least in many cases, you would have seen a different driver outside of the ride-along on those days.

I disagree pretty strongly with that statement. It might seem more difficult at first to a driver who has been doing everything the "wrong" way and has developed bad habits, but once you get used to doing things by the book, you'll realize that it's much easier on you physically, and you stand a far greater chance of making through to retirement with all your joints in working order. You'll also find that ride alongs cease to be a source of stress as you desperately try to do things differently according to your vague memories of what the methods are. Instead you just do things the same you always do, plus you get a free lunch

[Sleeve_meet_Heart]

Originally Posted by Jones

I disagree pretty strongly with that statement. It might seem more difficult at first to a driver who has been doing everything the "wrong" way and has developed bad habits, but once you get used to doing things by the book, you'll realize that it's much easier on you physically, and you stand a far greater chance of making through to retirement with all your joints in working order. You'll also find that ride alongs cease to be a source of stress as you desperately try to do things differently according to your vague memories of what the methods are. Instead you just do things the same you always do, plus you get a free lunch

I agree with that somewhat, depends on which methods we are cutting out.

But, if you consider these two things just for starters : lunches/breaks and following edd stop for stop, following methods, you will never ever get into bldg earlier and home earlier by following methods.

[dilligaf]

Originally Posted by brownIEman

You are correct, it does sound like I am stating an assumed fact. I withdraw it. So consider it not something I feel I know is true, consider it one proposed theory.

If you have another for a group of drivers having fewer average stops and fewer piece counts yet coming in on average in the same amount of time I would like to hear it. Weather and road conditions were the same, so it was not that. Stop distribution was also almost identical, just spread among over more routes.

As an added piece of data, misload numbers where nearly identical. In fact, as I recall, there were fewer misloads on the day routes were added.

BTW, re-reading it also looks like I am saying drivers with lesser work loads are making a conscious decision to work slower. While I believe my theory to be valid, I do not think the lesser performance with less work is a conscious thing. I believe it to be more subconscious. And While I have not been a driver, I have been on many, many rides over multiple days, and seen the change in a driver from a day when the car is light and when it is bricked out. Most drivers I have ridden with tend to be stressed and push themselves harder and faster with heavier loads in an effor to get through it all. That has been my experience...

I have to address this as well bronwIE.

1 Your theory - I agree with you in that it may be a subconcious thing. I say this from experience. This was brought to my attention via a 3 day ride along and someone that is no longer in the system to help me see this. I was not aware of what I was doing and have since corrected the issue.

2 Stressed out - Again I agree. It is difficult, to say the least, to come in see your truck brick loaded and not be stressed out. To not push harder to 'get through' it as you say. This is also true - 'The faster I go the farther behind I get'. Mistakes happen when a driver is stressed that far. Things get forgotten. Extra miles are added on because of these. Extra time is added on. There are drawbacks, real and definable drawbacks to brickloading. The drivers know it, why can't the company see it? Not to mention the safety aspect of trying to deliver a brickload. Drivers get hurt this way.

[brownIEman]

Originally Posted by Sleeve_meet_Heart

I agree with that somewhat, depends on which methods we are cutting out.

But, if you consider these two things just for starters : lunches/breaks and following edd stop for stop, following methods, you will never ever get into bldg earlier and home earlier by following methods.

I see this complaint about following edd stop for stop a ton on this board. And not once have I seen it accompanied by the actual corporate rule: follow edd stop for stop to at least 85%. If your center team is telling you they want you 100% on trace, they are either miss informed or lying. The corporate goal is 85% so you have the flexibility to adjust for things like road closures and light volume that allows you a chance to hit a resi neighborhood while running bus. so you do not have to come back to a certain part of town. Things the PAS plan does not take into account.
Generally, if you cannot follow trace to at least 85% and be more efficient then the trace needs to be looked at, not the drivers methods.

[Sleeve_meet_Heart]

Originally Posted by brownIEman

I see this complaint about following edd stop for stop a ton on this board. And not once have I seen it accompanied by the actual corporate rule: follow edd stop for stop to at least 85%. If your center team is telling you they want you 100% on trace, they are either miss informed or lying. The corporate goal is 85% so you have the flexibility to adjust for things like road closures and light volume that allows you a chance to hit a resi neighborhood while running bus. so you do not have to come back to a certain part of town. Things the PAS plan does not take into account.
Generally, if you cannot follow trace to at least 85% and be more efficient then the trace needs to be looked at, not the drivers methods.

I have never heard of that 85% corporate rule, being new and not told much about policies, but it is good to know that.

[Jones]

Originally Posted by Sleeve_meet_Heart

I agree with that somewhat, depends on which methods we are cutting out.

But, if you consider these two things just for starters : lunches/breaks and following edd stop for stop, following methods, you will never ever get into bldg earlier and home earlier by following methods.

Neither of those two things is a method. And while skipping your lunch might get you in earlier initially, as soon as that behavior gets noticed you will be getting assigned more work.

[Sleeve_meet_Heart]

Originally Posted by Jones

Neither of those two things is a method. And while skipping your lunch might get you in earlier initially, as soon as that behavior gets noticed you will be getting assigned more work.

100% wrong. Both of those are most certainly in the 340 methods, section 4 and 10

[Jones]

Originally Posted by Sleeve_meet_Heart

100% wrong. Both of those are most certainly in the 340 methods, section 4 and 10

Everything written in that book is not a "method", some it is just rules you are supposed to follow. Taking your negotiated lunch and breaks is one of those rules. There is not a UPS "method" for eating lunch. Following EDD is not a "method" either, and even if it was nowhere in that book does it say you must be 100% in trace.
Methods are things like package selection, safe work methods, etc.
But yes, you should take your lunch and breaks. Even if it's not a method, it will help you out in the long run.
Remember also that the point I was initially addressing was this:
This is a much more difficult job when you follow all methods, take an hour lunch and all breaks, and etc.
I still don't see your reasoning as to how doing those things will make the job more difficult.

[Sleeve_meet_Heart]

Originally Posted by Jones

Everything written in that book is not a "method", some it is just rules you are supposed to follow. Taking your negotiated lunch and breaks is one of those rules. There is not a UPS "method" for eating lunch. Following EDD is not a "method" either, and even if it was nowhere in that book does it say you must be 100% in trace.
Methods are things like package selection, safe work methods, etc.
But yes, you should take your lunch and breaks. Even if it's not a method, it will help you out in the long run.

You are so wrong.

Want me to quote the 340 methods section 10?

I. Personal time
A. Enter the time that you start and finish your lunch/meal into the DIAD time card screen as you take it. You are required to take yoru full personal time.
B. Secure the DIAD in the cargo area during lunch and break or take the DIAD with you.


So as you can see, you are wrong, it certainly is a method, by UPS definition.

[Jones]

Originally Posted by Sleeve_meet_Heart

You are so wrong.

Want me to quote the 340 methods section 10?

I. Personal time
A. Enter the time that you start and finish your lunch/meal into the DIAD time card screen as you take it. You are required to take your full personal time.
B. Secure the DIAD in the cargo area during lunch and break or take the DIAD with you.


So as you can see, you are wrong, it certainly is a method, by UPS definition.

Thank you for quoting me the rule
The only parts of that section that could possibly be construed as a "method" is the bit about entering your lunch in the DIAD and securing the DIAD in the cargo area. Actually taking your hour lunch is a rule.
I'm still not seeing how all this makes your day more difficult?