UPS can't compete because of high labor costs? - Brown Cafe

brownmonster · 10-09-2009, 07:41 PM

"We are excited to learn that everything now is in place to implement our agreement with the Teamsters," said Mike Eskew, UPS's chairman and CEO. "This agreement helps to ensure that UPS is well positioned for success in the coming years."

Acoording to our CEO, the contract we signed in the fall of 2007 insured our competitive advantage. How things change.

brownrodster · 10-09-2009, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownmonster

"We are excited to learn that everything now is in place to implement our agreement with the Teamsters," said Mike Eskew, UPS's chairman and CEO. "This agreement helps to ensure that UPS is well positioned for success in the coming years."

Acoording to our CEO, the contract we signed in the fall of 2007 insured our competitive advantage. How things change.

Well, if UPS was still earning over a billion in profit per quarter then everyone would still be happy.

I'm happy to make as much as I do. But I've always said I would do this job for less money. I believe we drivers are overpaid.

Next contract I would accept very meager/modest raises and just put everything else UPS offers us into our pensiosn/health care.

overallowed · 10-09-2009, 08:30 PM

What has changed? I am as busy as ever. My route is getting smaller all the time because of stop concentration. I see in the back of the FedEx ground truck every morning. It is pretty lean. And he covers the area of 5 ups drivers. I disagree that labor costs are hurting us.

BLACKBOX · 10-09-2009, 08:51 PM

There is always going to be a competitive disparity as long as FDX keeps hiding under the RLA. I read where they have extended the ruling until the end of the year.

As for FDX Ground, in my area they are out on the road by 8 am (also Home Del.) I don't know where you get that they are not making headway into our bread & butter but they've just opened a new FDXG facility in my area that went from 21 doors to 61 doors.

That ruling (when it happens) will be a game changer. It'll put a stop on their expansion plans.

Ryan1984 · 10-09-2009, 09:00 PM

Quote:

I'm happy to make as much as I do. But I've always said I would do this job for less money. I believe we drivers are overpaid.

You wouldn't be saying that if you lived in a high cost of living area...
Sure, in a lot of areas I bet the pay is outstanding, just realize that in a lot of areas, it's no more than average.

purplesky · 10-09-2009, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overallowed

What has changed? I am as busy as ever. My route is getting smaller all the time because of stop concentration. I see in the back of the FedEx ground truck every morning. It is pretty lean. And he covers the area of 5 ups drivers. I disagree that labor costs are hurting us.

Same here,
I see the FEDEX Express and Ground truck everyday and they are not that busy. When I am light they are also. The FEDEX ground person on my route is done by 3 sometimes. Thats covering 3 to 4 UPS routes in my area.

hurricanegunner · 10-09-2009, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overallowed

What has changed? I am as busy as ever. My route is getting smaller all the time because of stop concentration. I see in the back of the FedEx ground truck every morning. It is pretty lean. And he covers the area of 5 ups drivers. I disagree that labor costs are hurting us.

Every morning as I drive to work, I drive past about 10-15 FedEx trucks that are headed to their routes. And I have not even clocked in yet. Also, the FedEx drivers tell me they receive not only an hourly rate, but they also get paid by the package. The driver I spoke with said he gets a dollar a package. That explains why their trucks look empty at the start of the day. We get paid the same whether we have 5 packages or 500. From UPS's point of view, the more packages they cram on our trucks, the better. Just the opposite for FedEx.

ol'browneye · 10-09-2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownrodster

I'm happy to make as much as I do. But I've always said I would do this job for less money. I believe we drivers are overpaid.

I believe the majority of us earn every penny we make! I would do it for less money too though, and they better expect less work!!!!

brownrodster · 10-09-2009, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan1984

You wouldn't be saying that if you lived in a high cost of living area...
Sure, in a lot of areas I bet the pay is outstanding, just realize that in a lot of areas, it's no more than average.

Correct. Where I live half the househoulds live off of less than 43,000 per year.

satellitedriver · 10-09-2009, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownrodster

Correct. Where I live half the househoulds live off of less than 43,000 per year.

The majority around here is in the 30's and less.

40 and out · 10-10-2009, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownrodster

Well, if UPS was still earning over a billion in profit per quarter then everyone would still be happy.

I'm happy to make as much as I do. But I've always said I would do this job for less money. I believe we drivers are overpaid.

Next contract I would accept very meager/modest raises and just put everything else UPS offers us into our pensiosn/health care.

I'm also happy to make as much as I do. You can give me whatever money that you don't want to do your job. Your job is a lot easier than mine or else you are out of your mind if you think we are overpaid. We accepted very meager/modest raises on this contract.

Cezanne · 10-10-2009, 03:19 AM

Next contract I would accept very meager/modest raises and just put everything else UPS offers us into our pensiosn/health care.[/quote] (What makes you think that we did not do this already in our current contract?)

NHDRVR · 10-10-2009, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownrodster

Well, if UPS was still earning over a billion in profit per quarter then everyone would still be happy.

I'm happy to make as much as I do. But I've always said I would do this job for less money. I believe we drivers are overpaid.

Next contract I would accept very meager/modest raises and just put everything else UPS offers us into our pensiosn/health care.

If YOU are overpaid then that is your business.

I do not pretend to be going above and beyond any other driver in our center and, like most of us in this forum, I have been driving for many years. I will make my argument based on the time I have spent talking and watching various other customers and the work they get paid to do. We don't have the luxury of working from home or leaving early or pushing the 'papers' back into the inbox so they can wait til' tomorrow. We can't hole ourselves up in an office or corner of a building til' the storm passes and leave at our convenience.

No, we have a service based occupation that must be performed from point A to B on a daily basis regardless of how the truck was loaded, the truck is running, the driver is feeling, the traffic, the weather, the 15 minute COD's, the broken 2-wheeler, and, oh-yeah, 3 OCA's that I have to chase that adds an additional hour of drive time to my day.

Hey honey, tell the kids I will have to see them tomorrow since I won't be getting home til' 8:30. Again.

Overpaid?

Can you imagine telling a landscaper or mason that they have to move, lift, carry, drive, and sell the business during the course of the day while driving from point to point and then sticking some paper in their face saying that they didn't do it fast enough?? No, because it's unrealistic to expect those jobs to be done by certain times in inclement weather because of safety/injuries...

It's ok to expect it from us though.

Overpaid??

I don't think so...

Bad Gas! · 10-10-2009, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownrodster

Well, if UPS was still earning over a billion in profit per quarter then everyone would still be happy.

I'm happy to make as much as I do. But I've always said I would do this job for less money. I believe we drivers are overpaid.

Next contract I would accept very meager/modest raises and just put everything else UPS offers us into our pensiosn/health care.

If you want to work for less now, just skip your hour lunch everyday and go through your load before work for an hour.......I don't do this because I certainly don't feel overpaid....

UpstateNYUPSer · 10-10-2009, 05:07 AM

The hourly wage for a FT driver who has gone through progression will be approx. $32/hr by the time 2013 rolls around. This puts our base earnings at $66K, not including overtime or benefits. It is no secret that we are well compensated for a job that does not require more than a high school diploma. It is also no secret that our job is demanding with little tolerance for error. UPS is a mindset unlike any other non-military job that I have ever held.

The following is my opinion only but I think the word that we will all need to get used to hearing in 2013 is concession, whether it be a wage freeze or whether we will begin paying for a portion of our healthcare. We have got to control our costs and our labor costs put us at a distinct disadvantage when we try to secure new volume or keep our existing volume. I would personally prefer a wage freeze over paying for healthcare but fear that we may see both. I would also not be surprised to see a two-tiered wage system proposed. I also fear that 2013 will make 1997 seem like a minor disagreement amongst family members. One of the advanatages the company will have is that the recent DIAD upgrades will make it much easier to simply hand the DIAD to a replacement driver with minimal service disruptions.

NHDRVR · 10-10-2009, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

The hourly wage for a FT driver who has gone through progression will be approx. $32/hr by the time 2013 rolls around. This puts our base earnings at $66K, not including overtime or benefits. It is no secret that we are well compensated for a job that does not require more than a high school diploma. It is also no secret that our job is demanding with little tolerance for error. UPS is a mindset unlike any other non-military job that I have ever held.

The following is my opinion only but I think the word that we will all need to get used to hearing in 2013 is concession, whether it be a wage freeze or whether we will begin paying for a portion of our healthcare. We have got to control our costs and our labor costs put us at a distinct disadvantage when we try to secure new volume or keep our existing volume. I would personally prefer a wage freeze over paying for healthcare but fear that we may see both. I would also not be surprised to see a two-tiered wage system proposed. I also fear that 2013 will make 1997 seem like a minor disagreement amongst family members. One of the advanatages the company will have is that the recent DIAD upgrades will make it much easier to simply hand the DIAD to a replacement driver with minimal service disruptions.

Agreed.

I think this concession will have to be in the health and welfare pkg. There is absolutely no way UPS will continue to front this money when, across the board, other companies have been cutting costs screwing, er...I mean, adjusting the benefits packages.

Hoaxster · 10-10-2009, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Gas!

... because I certainly don't feel overpaid....

I never met anyone who thought they were overpaid ... including Mike Eskew and Scott Davis.
I know I'm certainly not overpaid.

Sleeve_meet_Heart · 10-10-2009, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

The hourly wage for a FT driver who has gone through progression will be approx. $32/hr by the time 2013 rolls around. This puts our base earnings at $66K, not including overtime or benefits. It is no secret that we are well compensated for a job that does not require more than a high school diploma. It is also no secret that our job is demanding with little tolerance for error. UPS is a mindset unlike any other non-military job that I have ever held.

The following is my opinion only but I think the word that we will all need to get used to hearing in 2013 is concession, whether it be a wage freeze or whether we will begin paying for a portion of our healthcare. We have got to control our costs and our labor costs put us at a distinct disadvantage when we try to secure new volume or keep our existing volume. I would personally prefer a wage freeze over paying for healthcare but fear that we may see both. I would also not be surprised to see a two-tiered wage system proposed. I also fear that 2013 will make 1997 seem like a minor disagreement amongst family members. One of the advanatages the company will have is that the recent DIAD upgrades will make it much easier to simply hand the DIAD to a replacement driver with minimal service disruptions.

What you failed to address but is along the same lines (not saying you forgot) is PAS and it's ability to be a strike buster. That includes pretty much everything needed to load and deliver cars. preload, labeling, edd, diad, diadupgrades, etc. And we have not even seen Diad 5 yet (at least most of us are not privvy to it)

Everything else is and was pretty much mindless unskilled labor. Load, unload, sort.

Welcome to the 21st century and maybe where the company finally truly has the Teamsters by the you-know-what

I agree with you 100%.

UpstateNYUPSer · 10-10-2009, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeve_meet_Heart

What you failed to address but is along the same lines (not saying you forgot) is PAS and it's ability to be a strike buster. That includes pretty much everything needed to load and deliver cars. preload, labeling, edd, diad, diadupgrades, etc. And we have not even seen Diad 5 yet (at least most of us are not privvy to it)

Everything else is and was pretty much mindless unskilled labor. Load, unload, sort.

Welcome to the 21st century and maybe where the company finally truly has the Teamsters by the you-know-what

I agree with you 100%.

I did address PAS in my last sentence.

LED · 10-10-2009, 06:31 AM

F/t drivers do make good money. Ups is saving money by paying the p/t people a lot less. They have also delayed their benefits. UPS starts off their p/t people at $8.50/hr here, and Fedex starts their p/t people at $11/ hr (so I have been told).

The on car sups in my center never drove, but came into full time management from being p/t sups. It is very likely that they do not make as much as I (f/t pkg) do per year.

Management also pays for part of their healthcare, so that defrays a lot of costs.

I think that money will be an issue at some point. If the law changes, and fedex brings their drivers up close to UPS pay then it may not be an issue.

As far as replacement drivers the advances in the diad would make it easier. Let's be honest here. There are not many people that will work as hard as a UPS driver day after day. I have seen many people wait for years to go driving and quit after a week, saying "life is too short to do this job" . I have also seen many people be disqualified because they just can not do the job, or they run into something.

Just my opinion.

Sleeve_meet_Heart · 10-10-2009, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

I did address PAS in my last sentence.

PAS = preload, not diad.

UpstateNYUPSer · 10-10-2009, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeve_meet_Heart

PAS = preload, not diad.

PAS/EDD are one in the same, but you are right in that PAS is preload and EDD is driver.

upsgrunt · 10-10-2009, 08:20 AM

[QUO I would also not be surprised to see a two-tiered wage system proposed. [/QUOTE]

Could you explain how this would be done please?

big_arrow_up · 10-10-2009, 08:57 AM

There are days here and there where I can't help but think "Am I really getting paid this much to drive around?" but that is usually when I'm on a rural route.

I do think a pay freeze for us full-timers wouldn't be a bad thing as long as we get COLA. Give the part-timers raises. They need it. I'm a lifer at UPS and I want us to be able to keep beating FedEx years down the road. Customers have always preferred us because of service (and sometimes price too) but nowadays they are willing to sacrifice that service to save a buck. I'd hate to lose allot of business to FredEx because of price alone while we are making $30+/hr. I have to admit that sometimes I think we are overpaid. If I had walked into this job and made $10/hr less I would have been happy. I have friends that have been with other companies 10+ years and don't even make half of what we make and some of them have college degrees! I'm happy for what we get paid but we have to think long term. Can we continue to get these huge raises while trying to fight off FedEx?

brownmonster · 10-10-2009, 08:57 AM

Very simple. You would be grandfathered in to the top wage. New hire drivers would be in progression for 3 years and then top out at some amount that is less than your top wage. Say 25 an hour. Happens in union factories in my neck of the woods. Guys working side by side and one makes less.