Everybody better pack a lunch. - Page 2 - Brown Cafe

Hoaxster · 10-10-2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonFrum

Hoax, the rules apply to all employees, not just DOT-regulated employees.

It's against the Law to urinate and/or defecate in public. You can't just step outside your package car and relieve yourself by the curb. You'll be arrested. You need a restroom.

Agreed ... there may be some routes where the ability to relieve yourself is not on trace (or within a 1/4 mile) and UPS may have to find a way to comply with the law on those routes. This probably does not apply to many routes though and probably none of the drivers posting in this thread.

over9five · 10-10-2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

Excellent advise.

"Advice"

Can't believe I beat Upstate, he's on a mission today!

Hoaxster · 10-10-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soberups

My elected and Teamster officials are not the ones making up operational rules that deny employees the right to use a restroom.

They are the ones that wrote this law and thus causing UPS to react so it's employees can take their lunch with their integrity intact by not stealing time.
Just another example of a poorly crafted law whose implementation and enforcement has unintended effects.

The ADA law had the unintended effect of causing homelessness because abandoned houses and apartment buildings seized by the local governments could not be converted to housing for the homeless unless they were converted to be handicap accessible.

Hoaxster · 10-10-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by over9five

"Advice"

Can't believe I beat Upstate, he's on a mission today!

Thanks Upstateover9five!

40 and out · 10-10-2009, 03:55 PM

Part of this is simple and part of this is the good old gray area. Your lunch and break are from the time the package car is shut off until it is turned back on. If you are driving, you are on the clock. If they try to tell you different,work as directed and grieve it. No way this b.s. will stand. Breaking trace is the good old gray area. Talk to 100 different people and get 100 different answers on this. Again,work as directed and grieve it,but who knows what the result would be. Maybe by grieving it we could get some kind of reasonable ruling,

Hoaxster · 10-10-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40 and out

Part of this is simple and part of this is the good old gray area. Your lunch and break are from the time the package car is shut off until it is turned back on. If you are driving, you are on the clock. If they try to tell you different,work as directed and grieve it. No way this b.s. will stand. Breaking trace is the good old gray area. Talk to 100 different people and get 100 different answers on this. Again,work as directed and grieve it,but who knows what the result would be. Maybe by grieving it we could get some kind of reasonable ruling,

Good advice ... don't do anything stupid based on principle (UPS has too many employees).

PS - I've never read anywhere in this thread or in other threads where UPS has instructed a driver to drive the PC while on the clock. Drivers have been instructed to take their lunch on trace (or up to .25 miles off-trace).

It is unfortunate that the Federal Government and the Teamsters have put the drivers in this position. Common sense and a sense of integrity allowed flexibility in this area until this law was passed.

MC4YOU2 · 10-10-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

Good advice ... don't do anything stupid based on principle (UPS has too many employees).

PS - I've never read anywhere in this thread or in other threads where UPS has instructed a driver to drive the PC while on the clock. Drivers have been instructed to take their lunch on trace (or up to .25 miles off-trace).

It is unfortunate that the Federal Government and the Teamsters have put the drivers in this position. Common sense and a sense of integrity allowed flexibility in this area until this law was passed.

Is the instruction a one way or round trip limit? Is it a 1/2 mile total, or a 1/4 mile total?

Hoaxster · 10-10-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MC4YOU2

Is the instruction a one way or round trip limit? Is it a 1/2 mile total, or a 1/4 mile total?

That was dookiebrowns that brought that up ... I'll let him speak to that.

I have a feeling that is a general guideline that may vary by location. Corporate IE would probably say "Can't break trace".

upsgrunt · 10-10-2009, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

It is unfortunate that the Federal Government and the Teamsters have put the drivers in this position. Common sense and a sense of integrity allowed flexibility in this area until this law was passed.

So, in your opinion, UPS has no blame in this decision about lunches, breaks, and going off trace to do so?

Hoaxster · 10-10-2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upsgrunt

So, in your opinion, UPS has no blame in this decision about lunches, breaks, and going off trace to do so?

I don't see as a situation with "Blame".
UPS has the responsibility to comply with the law and to have their employees work with integrity.
There is no blame ... it is a reaction to a change in law.

brownman15 · 10-10-2009, 05:13 PM

department of labor meal period

http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/Title_...9CFR785.19.htm

bumped · 10-10-2009, 05:14 PM

I don't argue, nor do I complain about it. I take my lunch and my breaks when I'm at a viable location after the 3rd hour. Then, I break trace later to deliver my businesses before my pickups. It takes more time and more miles, but thats the way they want it. So be it.

upsgrunt · 10-10-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

I don't see as a situation with "Blame".
UPS has the responsibility to comply with the law and to have their employees work with integrity.
There is no blame ... it is a reaction to a change in law.

That's a pretty good answer. I don't understand how the change in the law, the Teamsters blame, and why UPS must make new guidelines concerning this area are all linked together. (At least the part about "reasonablility")

1989 · 10-10-2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soberups

Somthing to bear in mind is that we do not actually "clock off" until after our lunch is over and we enter then duration of that lunch into the DIAD.

This is probably a bad practice to continue.

Bubblehead · 10-10-2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

Just don't advertise it Cement at your building - appears your management is operating under the "Don't ask, don't tell" program.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

Call DOT because a driver disobeyed orders and drove a DOT regulated vehicle while not on the clock?
I don't quite follow the logic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

Sorry, I could not find in the Federal Law the provisions about the DOT regulated employee must have access to restrooms and proper lunch place.
You are probably right though (with your degree in locker room law), I'll go back and read that law again or maybe UPS lawyers already have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

Don't talk about your elected officials and Teamster officials like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

Excellent advice.

My boy is all worked up tonight.
Or should I say liquored up?

Hoaxster · 10-10-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubblehead

My boy is all worked up tonight.
Or should I say liquored up?

No liquor (at least yet ... I do hear a Scotch calling my name).

This just happens to be one of those topics that piques my interest.
There are valid points on each side and in this thread, everyone has presented their points well.

The new law passed by the Federal Government has really mucked up what has been an area that we all "gave and took" on ... what is reasonable. The law does not allow that anymore - as normally happens with laws.

Also, watching good games on TV today and I can do this at the same time.

dragon · 10-10-2009, 05:50 PM

OK were do I join the fight....

705red · 10-10-2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

It is unfortunate that the Federal Government and the Teamsters have put the drivers in this position. Common sense and a sense of integrity allowed flexibility in this area until this law was passed.

What where the Teamsters and politicians thinking about when they implemented the 14 hour driving rule? Or the 10 hours off between shifts? How about the safety of the employees and the general public? It is the preamble to our safety language that UPS has agreed to! Silly us for expecting UPS to honor the contract and Federal laws, but than again UPS has been sued several times for breaking laws. The most recent was somewhere around 89 million was it not?

705red · 10-10-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon

OK were do I join the fight....

I have two posts in this thread you have yet to jump on!

Hoaxster · 10-10-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

There are valid points on each side and in this thread, everyone has presented their points well.

This was true when I made this post.

705red · 10-10-2009, 06:58 PM

The 60/70-hour limit is based on how many hours you work over a period of days. Just what kind of work is included in on-duty time? It includes all time you are working or are required to be ready to work, for any employer. It includes the following activities:

All time at a plant, terminal, or other facility of a motor carrier or shipper, unless you have been relieved from duty by the motor carrier;
All time inspecting or servicing your truck, including fueling it and washing it;
All driving time;
All other time in a truck unless you are resting in a sleeper berth;
All time loading, unloading, supervising, or attending your truck; or handling paperwork for shipments;
All time taking care of your truck when it is broken down;
All time spent providing a breath, saliva, or urine sample for drug/alcohol testing, including travel to and from the collection site;
All time spent doing any other work for a motor carrier, including giving or receiving training and driving a company car; and
All time spent doing paid work for anyone who is not a motor carrier, such as a part-time job at a local restaurant.

The bottom line is that on-duty time includes all time you are working for a motor carrier, whether paid or not, and all time you are doing paid work for anyone else.
The definition of on-duty time is found in Section 395.2.
Travel Time
"Travel time" refers to you being transported to a new location as part of your job, but you are not performing any of the driving on the trip. Any travel time you do at the direction of your motor carrier is considered on-duty time. However, if you take at least 10 consecutive hours off duty once you get to your destination, you may count all of the time, including the travel time, as off duty.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...ide-to-hos.pdf

Dookiebrowns · 10-10-2009, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MC4YOU2

Is the instruction a one way or round trip limit? Is it a 1/2 mile total, or a 1/4 mile total?

1/2 mile total...from where you break trace. That is the way it read.

Dookiebrowns · 10-10-2009, 07:04 PM

The memo was from DM, it was addressed to all UPS management and service providers.

It also stated that if you needed to deviate from guidelines you need written authorization from the DM.

Hoaxster · 10-10-2009, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 705red

All driving time;

This being the relevant part of your post to this thread:

It appears from what Dookiebrowns has posted that UPS is instructing the drivers in this building to not drive their UPS vehicle more than 1/4 mile, after breaking trace, in order to take their lunch. That is consistent with the stipulations of the Federal law. UPS is providing clear, non-ambiguous parameters for drivers so they or the company will not be in violation of the law.

I suppose a driver could drive 1/4 mile and then walk or use whatever means they care to (other than the PC) to get to where the driver wants to take lunch. However, the lunch starts at the time the driver stops the PC, turns off the PC and enters "Lunch" in the DIAD.

705red · 10-10-2009, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dookiebrowns

Break starts as soon as driver breaks trace, and ends when driver is back on trace. .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

This being the relevant part of your post to this thread:

It appears from what Dookiebrowns has posted that UPS is instructing the drivers in this building to not drive their UPS vehicle more than 1/4 mile, after breaking trace, in order to take their lunch. That is consistent with the stipulations of the Federal law. UPS is providing clear, non-ambiguous parameters for drivers so they or the company will not be in violation of the law.

I suppose a driver could drive 1/4 mile and then walk or use whatever means they care to (other than the PC) to get to where the driver wants to take lunch. However, the lunch starts at the time the driver stops the PC, turns off the PC and enters "Lunch" in the DIAD.

Maybe you should reread what DOOKIE wrote, actually I highlighted it in bold for you!