Standoff!

[Hoaxster]

Originally Posted by soberups

I live in one of the nicest neighborhoods in my city.

There are at least 2 pitbulls within walking distance of my house.

This being a semi-rural community in a rural state (Oregon), probably 8 out of 10 homes in my neighborhood have guns.

3 of my neighbors are members of the same gun club that I belong to, and all three of them, like myself, have concealed-handgun permits and carry guns on a daily basis.

I have lived here for 5 years and have yet to see the police called to any of the gun-owning, pitbull owning homes in my neighborhood. The crime rate here is very low.

I wonder why?

You don't live in a big city?

I have a house in the NC mountains and big crime story there is teenagers stealing jewelry from an unlocked booth at the fair.

Wouldn't even be investigated here in metro Atlanta.

I get your point though and I firmly believe in owning guns. I like dogs but they are too much trouble ... maybe when I retire.

And it will not be a Chihuahua so Upstate will not be afraid to visit me.

[klein]

Originally Posted by soberups

I live in one of the nicest neighborhoods in my city.

There are at least 2 pitbulls within walking distance of my house.

This being a semi-rural community in a rural state (Oregon), probably 8 out of 10 homes in my neighborhood have guns.

3 of my neighbors are members of the same gun club that I belong to, and all three of them, like myself, have concealed-handgun permits and carry guns on a daily basis.

I have lived here for 5 years and have yet to see the police called to any of the gun-owning, pitbull owning homes in my neighborhood. The crime rate here is very low.

I wonder why?

Ok, I never lived in the states. Just visiting. I wouldn't know.
I have never seen a cop in my neighborhood either. And I leave my housedoor open when I leave for an hr or 2.

We have dogs in my neighborhood, no pitbulls due to a city bylaw.
The last stroke was, when a small infant or 1 yr old got mauled to death.

But, after what I seen on news, TV, even Judge Joe Brown... I wouldn't trust a pitbull.
Our city, and Denver and others didn't ban them for no reason.

[soberups]

I am a "dog person" and can tell almost immediately whether or not a dog might bite me.

Lots of dogs bark; usually this means that they are either greeting you or communicating your presence to their owner.

I had never met this pitbull before but I knew right away that she was friendly; she was a wiggle-butt dog that jumped into the truck right way with her ears perked up instead of laid back, and she was sniffing around and wagging her tail.

The aggressive ones are usually silent, their ears are laid back, and they stare directly at you. They dont sniff around or look away from you.

[MC4YOU2]

Originally Posted by klein

Denver isn't the only city that banned them.
Don't throw this one towards me.
Google Pittbull Ban , and many cities show up across the USA.

You had it in place, before we did.



Already in place, as you know so well.

And if your so uptight with having pittbulls and guns.
Then why don't you start living in a neighborhood full of those 2 things.
Would make you feel much more free.
The nicest neighborhood you could ever dream of, I bet.

Nothing against Canada, I just think that BSL is the wrong way to correct the problem of dog bites regardless of what country it's in. Sure BSL has happened in some places, but it's also been repealed in some cities. I do not and would not live in a city that banned any dog breed, guns.....or Canadians. They all come in handy sometimes. I live in a nice middle class neighborhood in a college town, and last summer a couple of meth heads decided to break into homes during the day when people were at work. They broke into many of my dog-less neighbors homes, but passed on mine.

[dilligaf]

Originally Posted by soberups

I am a "dog person" and can tell almost immediately whether or not a dog might bite me.

Lots of dogs bark; usually this means that they are either greeting you or communicating your presence to their owner.

I had never met this pitbull before but I knew right away that she was friendly; she was a wiggle-butt dog that jumped into the truck right way with her ears perked up instead of laid back, and she was sniffing around and wagging her tail.

The aggressive ones are usually silent, their ears are laid back, and they stare directly at you. They dont sniff around or look away from you.

The 'look' is a big giveaway. A submissive dog will not stare at you. They will look away. A dog that stares....................don't turn your back on it.

[fethrs]

Originally Posted by dilligaf

The 'look' is a big giveaway. A submissive dog will not stare at you. They will look away. A dog that stares....................don't turn your back on it.

I have heard that staring back an aggressive dog is like a threat to the dog, they consider it a threat.

[Hoaxster]

Originally Posted by soberups

I am a "dog person" and can tell almost immediately whether or not a dog might bite me.

Lots of dogs bark; usually this means that they are either greeting you or communicating your presence to their owner.

I had never met this pitbull before but I knew right away that she was friendly; she was a wiggle-butt dog that jumped into the truck right way with her ears perked up instead of laid back, and she was sniffing around and wagging her tail.

The aggressive ones are usually silent, their ears are laid back, and they stare directly at you. They dont sniff around or look away from you.

Originally Posted by dilligaf

The 'look' is a big giveaway. A submissive dog will not stare at you. They will look away. A dog that stares....................don't turn your back on it.

It occurs to me there are a lot of similarities between dogs and women!

[dilligaf]

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

It occurs to me there are a lot of similarities between dogs and women!

Originally Posted by fethrs

I have heard that staring back an aggressive dog is like a threat to the dog, they consider it a threat.

LOL Very true ........................ probably on both accounts Hoax.

[soberups]

Originally Posted by klein

But, after what I seen on news, TV, even Judge Joe Brown... I wouldn't trust a pitbull.
Our city, and Denver and others didn't ban them for no reason.

The news you see on the TV is ratings-driven. "If it bleeds, it leads."

Lots of big-city politicians stay in office by passing "feel-good" legislation that is poorly written and accomplishes nothing other than creating the illusion that they are "doing something" about a percieved problem. Bans on pitbulls, "gun free" zones around schools that are nothing more than lines on a map, and "drug free" zones are all examples of legislation that creates a warm, fuzzy feeling but doesnt actually solve any problems.

Laws like these are nothing more that a slippery slope that lead us inevitably to the "nanny state" that we see in Great Britain and, to a lesser extent, Canada and Europe.

[ol'browneye]

Originally Posted by dilligaf

The 'look' is a big giveaway. A submissive dog will not stare at you. They will look away. A dog that stares....................don't turn your back on it.

Good point, but take it a little farther...don't turn your back on any dog. Sure, there are the friendly ones that you deal with 2-3 times a week that you know wouldn't hurt a flea, but most dogs will get you when you turn your back and walk away, big or little.

I have to admit I got bit by a pitbull this summer, well, more like I was sampled by the dog. I pulled up to a familiar house and saw the owner and a visitor in the back yard. The visitor came around to get the box being trailed by a pitbull. It was the visitors dog so I had never seen or met this dog before. The dog was as laid back as could be, tail wagging and her tongue just a hanging almost like she was smiling. I let my guard down and just ignored her because of her disposition. As the guy got up to me I lost sight of the dog beneath the large box I was holding in front of me. While I was handing it to him I felt the dog chomp on my knee! I let out a surprised expletive and hollered "She just bit me!" He said "Yea she likes to do that. She was just tasting you."
I checked my knee and there was no broken skin that I could see. He assured me that she had all her shots and showed me her tag. I looked at the dog again and she was just standing there with her tongue hanging out just looking around like nothing happened!
I like to think that I can read most dogs by their body language but this one fooled me. I guess she was just getting to know me!

[rod]

Originally Posted by ol'browneye

Good point, but take it a little farther...don't turn your back on any dog. Sure, there are the friendly ones that you deal with 2-3 times a week that you know wouldn't hurt a flea, but most dogs will get you when you turn your back and walk away, big or little.

I have to admit I got bit by a pitbull this summer, well, more like I was sampled by the dog. I pulled up to a familiar house and saw the owner and a visitor in the back yard. The visitor came around to get the box being trailed by a pitbull. It was the visitors dog so I had never seen or met this dog before. The dog was as laid back as could be, tail wagging and her tongue just a hanging almost like she was smiling. I let my guard down and just ignored her because of her disposition. As the guy got up to me I lost sight of the dog beneath the large box I was holding in front of me. While I was handing it to him I felt the dog chomp on my knee! I let out a surprised expletive and hollered "She just bit me!" He said "Yea she likes to do that. She was just tasting you."
I checked my knee and there was no broken skin that I could see. He assured me that she had all her shots and showed me her tag. I looked at the dog again and she was just standing there with her tongue hanging out just looking around like nothing happened!
I like to think that I can read most dogs by their body language but this one fooled me. I guess she was just getting to know me!

I just hate idiots like this. They deserve to be sued

[soberups]

Originally Posted by ol'browneye

I looked at the dog again and she was just standing there with her tongue hanging out just looking around like nothing happened!
I like to think that I can read most dogs by their body language but this one fooled me. I guess she was just getting to know me!

I'm not making light of what happened to you, but if she had really intended to bite you, you would still be on comp after having your whole knee surgically reconstructed. What you got...was a "love nibble". It might have hurt, but it wasnt a sign of aggression on the part of the dog.

[over9five]

Originally Posted by soberups

I'm not making light of what happened to you, but if she had really intended to bite you, you would still be on comp after having your whole knee surgically reconstructed. What you got...was a "love nibble". It might have hurt, but it wasnt a sign of aggression on the part of the dog.

But it was a sign of stupidity on the part of the dog owner. Anyone who allows their dog to bite someone doesn't deserve to own one.

[ol'browneye]

Originally Posted by soberups

I'm not making light of what happened to you, but if she had really intended to bite you, you would still be on comp after having your whole knee surgically reconstructed. What you got...was a "love nibble". It might have hurt, but it wasnt a sign of aggression on the part of the dog.

That's kind of how I took it. She showed no sign of aggression whatsoever. I guess that's why it suprised me so much!

[rod]

Originally Posted by soberups

I'm not making light of what happened to you, but if she had really intended to bite you, you would still be on comp after having your whole knee surgically reconstructed. What you got...was a "love nibble". It might have hurt, but it wasnt a sign of aggression on the part of the dog.

Just when a person thinks they've heard everything Are you sure you're not drinking again?

[soberups]

Originally Posted by rod

Just when a person thinks they've heard everything Are you sure you're not drinking again?

No, I'm not drinking today.

I have a basset hound that gives what my wife calls "love nibbles". If you rub his belly or scratch his back in the right spot he will lick the air or "nibble" on anything he can reach with his mouth.

I have observed this behavior in other dogs also, they will very gently "nibble" as a sign of affection. It is not in any way an aggressive behavior.

When I was 9 yrs old my uncle's English bulldog attacked me. He locked his jaws on to my leg and wouldnt let go, he started shaking my leg around like a rag and really tore it up. My aunt couldnt get him to let go, and finally my uncle was able to use a fireplace poker to break one of his teeth out. He then inserted the poker into the hole and used it to force the dogs jaws apart. He then dragged the dog into the backyard and shot it. I wound up with over 40 stitches and I still have scars to this day....so I can speak with firsthand experience as to the difference between "love nibbles" and a real dog bite.

[Nikki]

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

Squirls?

lol sorry had my two year old in my lap wasnt watching my typing....

squirrels

[Nikki]

Originally Posted by ideliver2u67

Maybe its just all the news headlines I have seen. But I am scared to death of Pitbulls. I have had a couple on previous routes and none have been the kind where you wanna chance a friendly pat on the head, without losing an arm. My daughter just baught a blue Pit from Alaska, and picked it up from the airport on Friday, so maybe my fear of them will change as i get acquainted with the breed. HOPEFULLY!!!

Some things to keep in mind that people today call ALL bulldogs (except french and english...) pit bulls. The main difference is that pits are actually cross breeds withen the class, and thats what causes their jaws to lock. (most but not all pits jaws lock when they bite too hard) Another reason they are more dangerous than say a germain shepherd, is that when they attack something, they have a different style. They will actually grab and hold while shaking and swinging their head. it utalizes their strong neck muscles. (dogs like a germain shepherd, attack by repeatadly snapping and tearing at their target.)

PLEASE dont let this scare you because like its been said here its all about the owner... I grew up with an american bulldog, who was the best dog ever. HE was nice to everyone except when I was scared. Ive had strangers come to my doorand i was fine and so was he, but if i was ever a bit shaky or anything, he wouldnt let anyone near me. (he was the same way with my kids...) Just a year ago about 2 months before he died (16 years old...) we had a babygate to seperate the front of the house from the back so he wouldnt wake our kids (he liked to cuddle but was too big for their beds....) someone tried to come in threw our office window, Whiskey (dog) jumped the gate went and stood in front of the hall leading to our bedrooms and starting growling and barking, wouldnt even let the cops near my kids room. slept in front of the door as well. God I miss him so much.... now im crying....

What im trying to say is please dont put a bad name on them they can be the sweetest dogs in the world. as well as be careful, because some people train them to attack, and they are not the dog to tussle with.

on a side note.... we are so proud of our puppy. Loki, our husky, tried to defend out house today from "intruders" my hubby forgot his key so he went to go through the window, and Loki all 50 pounds of his 6 month old self, got into his first defense stance and started growling...lol till he saw who it was then he sat and demanded his lovings and his turkey neck, lol....
His "sister" is actually the alpha one (6 month old germain shepherd) so it was a bit of a surprise that it was him defending the house....

[Nikki]

"Pits are considered loaded guns for a reason. They can pull a 500 pound dead weight in full pursuit. They go for the necks of their vitcims. When they bite down they dont left go."

ACtually many dogs can do this. My father raised malamutes in weight pulling and his pride Maxi could pull over 2000 pounds. I had an american bulldog that could pull around 1500 and could have easily pulled more (probly more than my fathers) if i had trained him more...., but for him it was all fun.

We are training our husky and germain shepherd weight pulling as well, they enjoy already. Loki can do 60 and sheebas at 50 right now, but we wont let them do more till they are full grown. more than that and they could damage something....

[dilligaf]

I just recalled a story that happened quite a few years ago. Both of my younger brothers are avid hunters and have been since they were old enough to go out. The older of my brothers went out one year elk hunting. He took his Chow Chelsea with him. He shot his elk and walked up to the downed animal. My brother knows better than to do stupid things while hunting but for whatever reason this particular time he walked head on to the elk. Just as he got to the head the elk stood and ended up with my brother right between a 6 pt rack. Bad move on my brothers part, but that dog of his was right there. She had the elk by the nose in an instant and would not let go of it. My brother was very fortunate that day and I do believe that he learned a very valuable lesson.

[trickpony1]

Originally Posted by Nikki

"Pits are considered loaded guns for a reason. They can pull a 500 pound dead weight in full pursuit. They go for the necks of their vitcims. When they bite down they dont left go."

ACtually many dogs can do this. My father raised malamutes in weight pulling and his pride Maxi could pull over 2000 pounds. I had an american bulldog that could pull around 1500 and could have easily pulled more (probly more than my fathers) if i had trained him more...., but for him it was all fun.

We are training our husky and germain shepherd weight pulling as well, they enjoy already. Loki can do 60 and sheebas at 50 right now, but we wont let them do more till they are full grown. more than that and they could damage something....

I know there is a reason why one would weight train a dog.....I just haven't figured it out yet.
Body building? Iditarod race? Alternate vehicle in a gasoline crisis?
Of course we wouldn't want to train the dogs to be therapy dogs. That would be less manly and would actually serve a humanitarian purpose.
Stupid me.

[MC4YOU2]

Originally Posted by trickpony1

I know there is a reason why one would weight train a dog.....I just haven't figured it out yet.
Body building? Iditarod race? Alternate vehicle in a gasoline crisis?
Of course we wouldn't want to train the dogs to be therapy dogs. That would be less manly and would actually serve a humanitarian purpose.
Stupid me.

Very strong breeds need healthy demanding exercise. They get great satisfaction from these kinds of activities and could still be therapy dogs. As I recall Lassie had to use brute strength many times and was still a lover.

[ORLY!?!]

Originally Posted by dilligaf

I don't agree with you on a chain law. I believe that is cruel, especially for those dogs that are left on a chain 24 hrs a day. Trust is a huge issue with any 2 or 4 legged animal. I have trust issues but that is neither here nor there. Sounds, smells and the like cause reations for humans as well as animals. It is part of a self preservation instinct.

Now to the private property and trusting of unknown animals. I firmly believe that NO ONE should ever trust an animal and absolutely should never trust an owner that says, "my dog is nice, he won't bite". BTDT and have gotten bit anyway. Crossing private property........... it's the owners responsibility to post no tresspassing signs, it's the publics responsibility to not trespass. I'm sorry but if you cross my posted property you deserve to get bit. In our position as a delivery driver the owner gives us permission to be on their property when they order and expect it to be delivered. That puts the responsibility back on the owner.

So basically, there are responsibilities on all sides.......... unfortunately it is quite often the dog that gets unduly blamed. IMO and this is not 100%

Chain law was a random idea. I Hear a lot of stories from drivers in my HUB that have been bitten on route. Thinking of a quick solution to resolve this issue was my only intention.

The over all goal is for the owners protection. People have broken into stores and been killed by electrical security systems. The family of the thief sued that store owner.

It's the same direction I was trying to head towards. If even that it is private property doesnt mean someone gets injured or killed on it even with signs posted is a free ticket of immunity.

I totally agree about trust issues with dogs as well with any animal big or small. I also agree that most of the larger dogs do get a bad rap. But most of them were fighting, hunting or guard dogs at one day in human history. For me, I want an original chinese shar-pei. Those dogs are even more dangerous then pits.

But I hear a lot of the time from drivers and certain threads I've lurked on this site. That the big ones arnt the problem, the little ones you have to look out for.

[klein]

Dangerous Dog Breed Statistics

Analyzing a sampling of press accounts from Canada and the USA during 1982-2007, researchers pinpointed the dog breeds that are most likely to cause death or serious injury. This research study concluded that, unlike any other breed of dog, Pitbulls attacked adults almost as often as they attacked children. The researchers found that Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, and Wolf-Dog Hybrids combined to account for:

• 77% of attacks that caused bodily harm to the injured dog bite victims.
• 73% of attacks that harmed children.
• 83% of attacks that injured adults.
• 70% of attacks that resulted in death.
• 77% of attacks that maimed the dog attack victims.

Another study looked at data obtained from incidents where victims were mauled by dogs during 1982-2006 and found that Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, Perro de Presa Canario, and their mixes caused 65% of the dog bite deaths during that time period in the United States.
Some sources claim that the six types of dogs commonly identified as the most dangerous or vicious dog breeds are Akitas, Chow-Chows, Doberman Pinschers, Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, and Wolf-Dog Hybrids.
A study looked at a selection of dog bite incidents from 2006-2008 in the United States. Out of the 88 dog attacks studied:

• Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, and American Bulldogs were responsible for 77% of all deaths.
• Pit Bulls were responsible for 59% of all deaths.
• Pit Bulls killed more adults than children.

Dog Bite Victim Statistics

• Out of the almost five million people bitten by dogs every year in the United States, close to 900,000 require medical attention. Nearly 400,000 of those people are seriously injured by dog bites.
• Over 31,000 people underwent reconstructive surgery in 2006 due to dog attacks.
• People are most often harmed by dogs that they live with. As the number of dogs kept in the home increases, so does the risk of dog bites. Adults living with two or more dogs are five times more likely to be bitten by a dog than those without dogs at home.
• Adult males are more likely to be bitten by a dog than adult females.
• Some studies have found that, among all ages of children, the rate of dog bite accidents is highest for those between the ages of 5-9.
• Children are more likely than adults to require medical attention for their dog bite injuries.
• In the US, the most frequent victims of dog bite attacks are:
  1. Children
  2. The Elderly
  3. Postal Service Carriers
• Dog bite victims account for as much as 5% of all emergency room visits in the United States.

Finally, it's important to remember that dog bite prevention, first and foremost, comes down to the dog owner. Owners are the ones responsible for following leash laws and other legal restrictions that help keep people safe and stop dangerous dog attacks before they happen.

[ORLY!?!]

[QUOTE=Nikki;619400]"Pits are considered loaded guns for a reason. They can pull a 500 pound dead weight in full pursuit. They go for the necks of their vitcims. When they bite down they dont left go."

ACtually many dogs can do this. My father raised malamutes in weight pulling and his pride Maxi could pull over 2000 pounds. I had an american bulldog that could pull around 1500 and could have easily pulled more (probly more than my fathers) if i had trained him more...., but for him it was all fun.
[QUOTE]

Im sure those were sleded weights. Im talking about 500 pounds laying flat on the ground. Contact weight if you will with the earth surface. Sleds are meant to move and malamutes were breeded to pull them.

Most people can pull more weight on mobile set ups.

Dead weight drag is different, especially if you have to charge into it instead of tention. Its like trying to drag two large males as dead weight.