This saves money?

[PobreCarlos]

1989;

Here's the direct quote from you...

"10 years ago the market more than doubled the value of the stock"

..yet now you're saying that (1) you "value stock by it's earnings" (i.e. - "the market" doesn't do it), and (2) "no company has a market-based valuation prior to the IPO".

H.m.m.m.m....if the way to value the stock is by it's earnings, but the market "doubled" it's value, but there was no "market based valuation prior to the IPO", then just what the Hell are you saying....other than pure gibberish? How can something be "doubled" if it didn't exist before? How can what you term "value" in one post not exist as "value" in another? Rather curious, don't you think?

Face it, "1989", you not only don't know what "value" I'm talking about, but what ANY reasonable person who refers to "value" is talking about, either.

BTW, I'd be interested in seeing that "2-4% monthly return plus 4% dividend" you're talking about. You *do* know what that would translate into on a yearly basis, don't you? [smile]

Sorry guy, but as perhaps you can tell, I'm getting rather sick of clownish comments about "60,000,000 million out of work", or "10 years ago the market more than doubled the value of the stock", or represent UPS as consistently offering-up a "2-4% monthly return". and such.

[klein]

Good thing this isn't a microsoft site, they lost half the value on stock, but still earn billions... go figure.

I don't hear microsoft blaming uinions or over waged employess.

(more like piss poor management, products, innovatons - and not the employers working as directed ).

But UPS , ofcourse is differernt. - Blame it on Teamsters, workers, wages, etc., but hell no, not management.!

[PobreCarlos]

Captain America;

In terms of "venting", I think it's pretty obvious that you went about it in this case...without adding anything otherwise substantive to the discussion whatsoever.

Anyway, from now on, I'll recommend you as the authority on what emotions and such can be determined by the way a person "types". As for "dealing to well"...all I can say is that I never intended to deal to a well in the first place. Or should I assume that, from the way you "type" (as in dealing "to" well), it can be determined that you lack the ability to express yourself intelligently, and get your jollies off criticizing those who can?

Sorry, "Captain", but two (not "to" or "too") can play at that game. You want to be an obnoxious snot who thrusts his nose in without offering anything but unreasoned criticism, then expect the same be thrown right back at ya'.

You know, you're right...venting DOES help! So does swatting mosquitos.

[Jones]

Originally Posted by PobreCarlos

Captain America;

In terms of "venting", I think it's pretty obvious that you went about it in this case...without adding anything otherwise substantive to the discussion whatsoever.

Anyway, from now on, I'll recommend you as the authority on what emotions and such can be determined by the way a person "types". As for "dealing to well"...all I can say is that I never intended to deal to a well in the first place. Or should I assume that, from the way you "type" (as in dealing "to" well), it can be determined that you lack the ability to express yourself intelligently, and get your jollies off criticizing those who can?

Sorry, "Captain", but two (not "to" or "too") can play at that game. You want to be an obnoxious snot who thrusts his nose in without offering anything but unreasoned criticism, then expect the same be thrown right back at ya'.

You know, you're right...venting DOES help! So does swatting mosquitos.

You're an angry little guy, aren't ya?

[PobreCarlos]

klein;

Perhaps Microsoft not blaming unions is because Microsoft hasn't had to DEAL with the unions...particularly the Teamsters! Know a lot of Teamster-organized Microsoft employees, do ya' "klein"? In fact, how many large, successful (and I do mean SUCCESSFUL) companies do you know that are primarily organized by the Teamsters, "period"?

Why don't you list them for us. For some reason, I doubt that the length of the list would compromise this site's bandwidth restrictions. 'Course, once again, here's an opportunity to prove me wrong!

Microsoft doesn't blame the unions...how original!

P.S. - Why don't you take a gander at the websites which discuss Microsoft's tendency to avoid unionization by ridding themselves of those "over waged employess" by outsourcing and transferring their work overseas. In short, be careful what you wish for, "klein"...it might come true!

[klein]

Originally Posted by PobreCarlos

klein;

Perhaps Microsoft not blaming unions is because Microsoft hasn't had to DEAL with the unions...particularly the Teamsters! Know a lot of Teamster-organized Microsoft employees, do ya' "klein"? In fact, how many large, successful (and I do mean SUCCESSFUL) companies do you know that are primarily organized by the Teamsters, "period"?

Why don't you list them for us. For some reason, I doubt that the length of the list would compromise this site's bandwidth restrictions. 'Course, once again, here's an opportunity to prove me wrong!

Microsoft doesn't blame the unions...how original!

P.S. - Why don't you take a gander at the websites which discuss Microsoft's tendency to avoid unionization by ridding themselves of those "over waged employess" by outsourcing and transferring their work overseas. In short, be careful what you wish for, "klein"...it might come true!

UPS already outsources as you know.
But , one thing they can't outsource is domistic delivery !
Unless, UPS invents a new package car, that can fly from China or Phillipines in an hr and deliver door to door.

It might be comming, but not in our lifetime.

[PobreCarlos]

Jones;

Re: your....

"You're an angry little guy, aren't ya?"

...sorry, I'm far from "little", although I'll admit to being a bit angry. On the other hand, at least I'm not some punk who interjects himself uninvited into a discussion simply to throw out fallacious assumptions ("little guy", etc). Rather, it's posturers like that who (and rightfully so) MAKE me angry. I'm afraid that liars generally make responsible individuals feel "angry". But, then again, that's something an individual with the particular type of "integrity" that you just demonstrated might have difficulty understanding, isn't it?

Anyway, you keep showing us what a "big man" you are by calling others you know nothing about "little". Ought to be a real impressive display.

[Jones]

Originally Posted by PobreCarlos

Jones;

Re: your....

"You're an angry little guy, aren't ya?"

...sorry, I'm far from "little", although I'll admit to being a bit angry. On the other hand, at least I'm not some punk who interjects himself uninvited into a discussion simply to throw out fallacious assumptions ("little guy", etc). Rather, it's posturers like that who (and rightfully so) MAKE me angry. I'm afraid that liars generally make responsible individuals feel "angry". But, then again, that's something an individual with the particular type of "integrity" that you just demonstrated might have difficulty understanding, isn't it?

Anyway, you keep showing us what a "big man" you are by calling others you know nothing about "little". Ought to be a real impressive display.

So you're a fat angry guy?

[klein]

Originally Posted by PobreCarlos

klein;

Perhaps Microsoft not blaming unions is because Microsoft hasn't had to DEAL with the unions...particularly the Teamsters! Know a lot of Teamster-organized Microsoft employees, do ya' "klein"? In fact, how many large, successful (and I do mean SUCCESSFUL) companies do you know that are primarily organized by the Teamsters, "period"?

Why don't you list them for us. For some reason, I doubt that the length of the list would compromise this site's bandwidth restrictions. 'Course, once again, here's an opportunity to prove me wrong!

Microsoft doesn't blame the unions...how original!

P.S. - Why don't you take a gander at the websites which discuss Microsoft's tendency to avoid unionization by ridding themselves of those "over waged employess" by outsourcing and transferring their work overseas. In short, be careful what you wish for, "klein"...it might come true!

ok, and Apple won't blame the unions either for doubling thier share price.
Since they are non - union as microsoft is.

But blame Teamsters on microsoft low value.. it's ok, take it both ways.
As you wish.
Just admit, you invested in the wrong company ! Easy way out.

[PobreCarlos]

klein;

"Domistic" delivery can't be outsourced? Just where did you get THAT idea? Are you telling me that UPS isn't outsourcing some of it's U.S. domestic delivery via the USPS right now? H.m.m.m.m.m!!!! And that there ISN'T a possibility - even the vaguest one - of outsourcing domestic delivery to third parties and/or contractors, such as OTHER package handlers have done? Is there some natural imperative I'm not aware of?

For that matter, is it written in stone that UPS even has to continue in the "domistic" delivery business? If it is, I guess I wasn't aware of it.

Amazing what information you're providing me! [cackle!]

BTW, what about a follow-up on that Microsoft topic that you initiated. You made an obvious comparison between UPS and Microsoft; can we expect you to carry through on it? You know...why Microsoft isn't blaming the unions and the significance of that lack of blame and so on. Inquiring minds want to know!

[PobreCarlos]

Jones;

So now I'm "fat", am I? H.m.m.m.m.....you seem just bound and determined to prove that there's not an honest component to your person, don't you "Jones"?

Tell me, "Jones"...what is it about individuals such as yourself that drives you to lie about others in the way you do? Of what benefit to you in a situation like this is being dishonest?

I'll admit it's kinda' beyond me.

[PobreCarlos]

klein;

Microsoft? Apple not blaming the unions for not doubling "thier" share price? UPS? Admit I made a wrong investment? And this all after the "60,000,000" out of work that quickly dropped to 50 million, then 20 million? Really ready to pull out all the stops, aren't you "klein"! [grin!]

Sorry guy, but while you may be making sense to some people, you're not to me. Nor can I can I seem to get by the fact that you've repeatedly demonstrated yourself to be a liar. On that basis, I don't see any point in attempting to continue a discussion with you. Perhaps those who don't value integrity will continue to give you "a read".

[Jones]

Originally Posted by Jones

So you're a fat angry guy?

Originally Posted by PobreCarlos

Jones;

So now I'm "fat", am I? H.m.m.m.m.....you seem just bound and determined to prove that there's not an honest component to your person, don't you "Jones"?

Tell me, "Jones"...what is it about individuals such as yourself that drives you to lie about others in the way you do? Of what benefit to you in a situation like this is being dishonest?

I'll admit it's kinda' beyond me.

Struck a nerve, Bingo! Fat and angry it is

[klein]

Originally Posted by PobreCarlos

klein;

"Domistic" delivery can't be outsourced? Just where did you get THAT idea? Are you telling me that UPS isn't outsourcing some of it's U.S. domestic delivery via the USPS right now? H.m.m.m.m.m!!!! And that there ISN'T a possibility - even the vaguest one - of outsourcing domestic delivery to third parties and/or contractors, such as OTHER package handlers have done? Is there some natural imperative I'm not aware of?

For that matter, is it written in stone that UPS even has to continue in the "domistic" delivery business? If it is, I guess I wasn't aware of it.

Amazing what information you're providing me! [cackle!]

BTW, what about a follow-up on that Microsoft topic that you initiated. You made an obvious comparison between UPS and Microsoft; can we expect you to carry through on it? You know...why Microsoft isn't blaming the unions and the significance of that lack of blame and so on. Inquiring minds want to know!

Carlos, you do have wonderful points.
I do like reading them, as much as the one above.
I agree, USA UPS workers are the highest paid on this planet.
Get highest paid pensions, and healthcare bennies on top of that.

It's no wonder DHL moved out, but still operating fully elsewhere in the world, even your neighbors, Mexico and Canada.

I won't get into Microsoft, that was just set as an example, as how thier stock devaluated, even though, they are still doing good business.
It was just an example as to why shares may not be in demand as others, thats all.

But, in closing, I think of GM and Chrsyler that had to pay more on pensions then on wages... which made them go bk.
Luckily, ernough, UPS is worldwide, and they can syphon money from other countries to pay Americans .

If your soo high up in management, or shareholder...
then please, give me the numbers of UPS, USA, alone.
Because, I'm certain they are running a huge deficit.

Sorry guys... but it's a fact.

[1989]

Originally Posted by PobreCarlos

1989;

Here's the direct quote from you...

"10 years ago the market more than doubled the value of the stock"

..yet now you're saying that (1) you "value stock by it's earnings" (i.e. - "the market" doesn't do it), and (2) "no company has a market-based valuation prior to the IPO".

Private companies do have a valuation for their stock just not market based since they don't trade on the market. UPS's valuation was much more conservative than the markets.

H.m.m.m.m....if the way to value the stock is by it's earnings, but the market "doubled" it's value, but there was no "market based valuation prior to the IPO", then just what the Hell are you saying....other than pure gibberish? How can something be "doubled" if it didn't exist before? How can what you term "value" in one post not exist as "value" in another? Rather curious, don't you think?

You act as if UPS stock didn't exist before the IPO. I believe my highest cost basis was $17.50 split adjusted on pre-IPO shares.

Face it, "1989", you not only don't know what "value" I'm talking about, but what ANY reasonable person who refers to "value" is talking about, either.

Please explain what value is then.

BTW, I'd be interested in seeing that "2-4% monthly return plus 4% dividend" you're talking about. You *do* know what that would translate into on a yearly basis, don't you? [smile]

Monday sell 2 Nov $55 puts and collect $500. If the shares arn't put to you, you made 4.8% on your money. (over 15 trading days)

If they are put to you, you now have 200 shares at a cost basis of $52.50 (a 2.2% discount to Fridays close) Now you can sell 2 Dec $55 calls for lets say $1+ (granted no drastic price moves) Now your cost basis is $51.50 or a 4% discount to Fridays close. Say they get called away in December at $55, you made a 6.4% return over 50 days. If you happen to hold during a divy distribution you will get another $90.

But what if the stock goes to $40? The key is to feel comfortable holding the shares, and not to panic.

If you already own 200 shares, sell 2 Nov $55 calls for a 1.4% return over Fridays close or a 3.8% return if they are called away. Over 15 trading days.

Sorry guy, but as perhaps you can tell, I'm getting rather sick of clownish comments about "60,000,000 million out of work", or "10 years ago the market more than doubled the value of the stock", or represent UPS as consistently offering-up a "2-4% monthly return". and such.

If you bought the stock at the IPO price of $50 you made about 28% in dividends and are up another 7% in stock price over 10 years.

[PobreCarlos]

1989;

Yes, I probably *did* make about $29/share in dividend and minor capital gain. But that's somewhat DIFFERENT than your previous claim of "2-4% monthly return plus 4% dividend", isn't it, in that (excluding dividend) that would work out (using the LOWER figure) to over a 26% return a year, or a gain, EXCLUDING the dividend, of over $450 for the $10 year period!!!!

That what happened, is it "1989"? [smile] That how YOUR "puts and calls" worked out, by way of example ['nother smile!]

Not that I remember you stipulating "puts" and "calls" in your initial posts as part of the basic strategy needed to achieve that return, of course. In any case, I guess my retort would be that an individual might derive a "2% to 4% monthly return" on the basis of "investing" in casino games as well; after all, it's POSSIBLE....but not very likely.

So, again, spare me the bullsh_t, OK? Pulling made-up figures out your hindquarters just isn't going to cut it.

[1989]

Originally Posted by PobreCarlos

1989;

Yes, I probably *did* make about $29/share in dividend and minor capital gain. But that's somewhat DIFFERENT than your previous claim of "2-4% monthly return plus 4% dividend", isn't it, in that (excluding dividend) that would work out (using the LOWER figure) to over a 26% return a year, or a gain, EXCLUDING the dividend, of over $450 for the $10 year period!!!!

That what happened, is it "1989"? [smile] That how YOUR "puts and calls" worked out, by way of example ['nother smile!]

Not that I remember you stipulating "puts" and "calls" in your initial posts as part of the basic strategy needed to achieve that return, of course. In any case, I guess my retort would be that an individual might derive a "2% to 4% monthly return" on the basis of "investing" in casino games as well; after all, it's POSSIBLE....but not very likely.

Sure, you can do it with LVS if you can stomach the shorts hammering it 25% like they did last week.

Try it...Take that 1.4% Nov $55 call option return now, and see if turns into a 4% return on November 20.

So, again, spare me the bullsh_t, OK? Pulling made-up figures out your hindquarters just isn't going to cut it.

No BS, I can look on my p/l statement and get you some actual numbers over the last 6 months.

[PobreCarlos]

1989;

Spare me some individual's numbers "over the last six months" and give me facts and figures demonstrating that an investment in UPS - and that investment alone, MINUS any machinations - would have a "2-4% monthly return plus 4% dividend" each and EVERY month of each and EVERY ONE of the last 10 years.

I don't want to hear what you could do (or think you could have done, because you obviously DIDN'T do it, or you wouldn't still list yourself as a "driver") "over the last six months", but rather what HAS BEEN DONE over EACH MONTH over the LAST TEN YEARS! I.e. - show me those shares you that you obtained - and are still holding - at a cost basis of $17 or so, and that IPO'ed at around $50, and explain to me just how they're worth TEN to TWENTY TIMES as much now! And not only YOUR shares, but those of EACH AND EVERY OTHER UPS INVESTOR WHO HELD ONTO THEIR SHARES! You know, those "purgatory" returns.

In short, demonstrate to me that you're just not another common garden-variety liar. And let's be honest...I think we both know at this point in time just how likely it is that you're going to be able to do that.

I'll be waiting....

[1989]

Originally Posted by PobreCarlos

1989;

Spare me some individual's numbers "over the last six months" and give me facts and figures demonstrating that an investment in UPS - and that investment alone, MINUS any machinations - would have a "2-4% monthly return plus 4% dividend" each and EVERY month of each and EVERY ONE of the last 10 years.

I've done options consistently on the stock for a few years. The down side is you may miss out on a pop because you cap your gains. It's been consistent but I prefer something more risky. This year it's been cenx, mgm, lvs.

I don't want to hear what you could do (or think you could have done, because you obviously DIDN'T do it, or you wouldn't still list yourself as a "driver") "over the last six months", but rather what HAS BEEN DONE over EACH MONTH over the LAST TEN YEARS!

10 years? why not just ask for something relevant like a year and what can happen going forward?

I.e. - show me those shares you that you obtained - and are still holding - at a cost basis of $17 or so,

You don't think that there were shares before the IPO? I sold my pre-IPO shares as the restrictions were lifted (one third at a time) I'm sure I can find a statement from 2000 if that is what you are asking.

and that IPO'ed at around $50.

Are you saying you don't believe the IPO was at $50?
http://money.cnn.com/1999/11/10/companies/ups/

and explain to me just how they're worth TEN to TWENTY TIMES as much now!

Where do you get 10 or 20 times more?

And not only YOUR shares, but those of EACH AND EVERY OTHER UPS INVESTOR WHO HELD ONTO THEIR SHARES! You know, those "purgatory" returns.

In short, demonstrate to me that you're just not another common garden-variety liar. And let's be honest...I think we both know at this point in time just how likely it is that you're going to be able to do that.

Back test the strategy for yourself. You won't always get the tops (highest price for those options, but something is better than nothing)
I'll be waiting....

[Phantom Lord]

Originally Posted by dragon

I know you could nothing about leaving the building, but did you at least get in your cars and start sorting, checking for misloads? Please tell me you did not stand around and do nothing in your car and just stood there waiting on a package to trickle down.

You know, when I suggested that drivers actually get into their trucks and check their loads last week when our air arrived late, they accused me of just trying to "bait the bear." In the end, after a couple minutes of futile argument on my part trying to get their buy-in, I had to say "I'm instructing you to do this, or go on break. Now get to it."

It amazes me how much some drivers whine and how little they try to get away with considering their wages.