Laid off Drivers as helpers at $8.50 - Brown Cafe

Brown Rocket · 11-06-2009, 01:08 PM

I am a laid off driver and for four and a half months I have patiently waited for the volume to get here and it finally has. Except there is one problem. They've put helpers on to keep the routes and laid off drivers off the road. They pull TP60s out to gated communities and have helpers delver them with a golf cart. To add insult to injury they are offering this work to the last few laid off drivers and want to pay them $8.50. I haven't looked up the language in my contract yet but can someone with a little more time help me out on this (I know i have time to type this but not read). I know the can use helpers in season (Oct - Dec) but is the language so ambigious that they can put helpers on before laid off drivers? I mean ***?

My BA knows and so does the whole south east reagion of the union. They are making plans to fight it but our union is not the quickest to the fight.

rorojo · 11-06-2009, 01:18 PM

same thing is happening here. 6 of us are laid of and were ask if we wanted to be helper told them no way. They even trained new drivers.Filed grevaneces and lost. union telling us we can't do any thing until they finish thier 30 day packet.

Brown Rocket · 11-06-2009, 01:31 PM

I do it if the jump exceeds 6 hours than I make more money than working my second part time shift because they pay us unskilled on our second shift and I have rather low building seniority.

outamyway · 11-06-2009, 02:09 PM

Drivers are getting driver pay here.

Work right slow and safe · 11-06-2009, 02:28 PM

not us in so cal 9.50 per hr i told them no way two drivers in one car ups will make out no training once half the helpers quit we will drive

959Nanook · 11-06-2009, 03:39 PM

I've gotten in the habit of lurking but BrownCafe keeps suggesting I should consider posting since it has been so long since I last posted and this topic hit close to home so ....

This right here is one (just one but it is a significant one for me that is indicative of what happens) of the reasons I'm planning on finally walking after this peak season. Temporary part timers that are not paying dues much less even going to be initiated into the Teamsters get to work today and I'm not allowed on the clock as a dues-paying permanent seniority full-time driver. Then they add insult to injury by having supervisors shuttle packages to routes that blew out because they refused to bring in laid off drivers to run dump routes as needed.

I understand that when the peak season volume hits, they want to have experienced people so they wanna work all the new hires as much as possible before the flood. At the same time, more than enough bid route drivers would voluntarily go home if given the opportunity if they are that hell bent on keeping the routes to minimal and overtime to maximum for drivers on the clock.

Honestly, I have no idea what I would do if they offered me the chance to be a helper on the days I'm laid off. It seems to be a mute issue locally as the company stance is that full-timers and part-timers are different seniority lists so laid off full-timers are assed out even if there are part-time vacancies in the building. Last peak season, I was paid my driver wages when I was a "helper" but that was actually using me as a "helper" to train the peak season drivers. Don't bother asking for your $.50 because they look at you like you just looked a gift horse in the mouth since they were gracious enough to work you while they are training peak season drivers. Never mind, that you should have been driving the route in the first place.

Every time the situation changes, they change the work practices to suit the situation. Hopefully, your union leadership has more gumption than mine.

My question is how they are paying them $8.50. If they are part-timers, shouldn't they be getting their current unskilled pay rate? If they are full-time drivers, shouldn't they at least be getting top scale part-time wages? Understanding that different jurisdictions have different rules, but it seems that dropping them to $8.50 is ludicrous.

brownmonster · 11-06-2009, 05:41 PM

We'll have to pull Hoffa Jr. out of Scott Davis' back pocket and have him look into this.

bumped · 11-06-2009, 07:11 PM

Have any of you grieved this? I know 10 years ago I was paid my driver wage to be a helper, and I requested my full 8 hours.

Cementups · 11-06-2009, 07:54 PM

You get paid at the jobn you are working. If you are working as a DRIVER you will get paid as a driver. If you are working as a helper, you will get paid as a helper. The only way you will get paid driver rate to be a helper is if you work part of your day as a DRIVER.

DRIVER means you are delivering packages as well as operating a company vehicle.

And as far as waiting for newly trained drivers to reach their 30 days they no longer have to be consecutive days. Plus days during peak do not count toward their 30 days either.

brownrodster · 11-06-2009, 08:32 PM

We are cutting routes and using helpers here to. Although, to my CM's credit, anyone with high seniority who wants time off is getting it and the all the low seniority drivers who would be laid off are working.

soberups · 11-06-2009, 09:51 PM

In my area, you cannot use helpers if any seniority drivers or part timers are laid off.

Six Sides · 11-06-2009, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brown Rocket

I do it if the jump exceeds 6 hours than I make more money than working my second part time shift because they pay us unskilled on our second shift and I have rather low building seniority.

Brown Rocket,
Unfortunately this is happening in the seasonal period, meaning the rules change to a certain degree. It’s kind of like not moving part-timers to driving and hiring off the street drivers. If the contract rate in your area is 8.50 for helpers that is what you will get if you work as a helper.

959Nanook · 11-07-2009, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownrodster

We are cutting routes and using helpers here to. Although, to my CM's credit, anyone with high seniority who wants time off is getting it and the all the low seniority drivers who would be laid off are working.

We used to do that as well. We are at the end of the road with no Managers (we have sups) within 360 miles minus the odd few days a year when the Extended Center Manager comes for a visit (the down economy cuts that down to almost zero...bad economies are good for something after all).

That all came to a screeching halt this spring when we popped on some report at the District level for having too many drivers working fewer than eight hours and someone was hot to trot. Needless to say, my Center Supervisor hasn't offered time off from top down since after that got done rolling down hill.

They just staff bare bones on the schedule now and call in lay offs in order of seniority if needed. If they make a mistake and end up with too many, they abuse the "bottom two on seniority list don't have any guaranteed hours" and say the bottom two scheduled drivers don't have any guaranteed hours so they can force them home without having to offer from the top down.

JustTired · 11-07-2009, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 959Nanook

Last peak season, I was paid my driver wages when I was a "helper" but that was actually using me as a "helper" to train the peak season drivers. Don't bother asking for your $.50 because they look at you like you just looked a gift horse in the mouth since they were gracious enough to work you while they are training peak season drivers. Never mind, that you should have been driving the route in the first place.

First off.....Why would you be training peak season drivers if you have full time drivers laid off? If it is anticipated that the need will be there after the full timers are all called back, then I guess I could see it.

Secondly.....it is not your job to train drivers, peak season or not. I guess I could see training them to use the diad and such. But anything to do with actual driving should be left to those whos job it is to do so. I would think that there may be DOT legalities involved as you were not trained to be a trainer. Not saying you couldn't do the same (if not better) job.

Third(ly).....If I was going to be making $8.50/hr as a jumper, I think I would opt to stay on the inside job(s) I was bumped to. No weather to contend with. No aggrevations to contend with. But that's just me.

whiskey · 11-07-2009, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brown Rocket

I am a laid off driver and for four and a half months I have patiently waited for the volume to get here and it finally has. Except there is one problem. They've put helpers on to keep the routes and laid off drivers off the road. They pull TP60s out to gated communities and have helpers delver them with a golf cart. To add insult to injury they are offering this work to the last few laid off drivers and want to pay them $8.50. I haven't looked up the language in my contract yet but can someone with a little more time help me out on this (I know i have time to type this but not read). I know the can use helpers in season (Oct - Dec) but is the language so ambigious that they can put helpers on before laid off drivers? I mean ***?

My BA knows and so does the whole south east reagion of the union. They are making plans to fight it but our union is not the quickest to the fight.

Our center hosted a golf cart rodeo. But most of the guys shunned it.

grgrcr88 · 11-07-2009, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soberups

In my area, you cannot use helpers if any seniority drivers or part timers are laid off.

Same here!! Every driver needs to file grievances for 8hrs pay for every day you are laid off and a helper is used!!

grgrcr88 · 11-07-2009, 06:03 AM

I think you should be able to use Article 32 of the national master as well as any seniority language in your regional supplements!!!

959Nanook · 11-07-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustTired

First off.....Why would you be training peak season drivers if you have full time drivers laid off? If it is anticipated that the need will be there after the full timers are all called back, then I guess I could see it.

Secondly.....it is not your job to train drivers, peak season or not. I guess I could see training them to use the diad and such. But anything to do with actual driving should be left to those whos job it is to do so. I would think that there may be DOT legalities involved as you were not trained to be a trainer. Not saying you couldn't do the same (if not better) job.

Third(ly).....If I was going to be making $8.50/hr as a jumper, I think I would opt to stay on the inside job(s) I was bumped to. No weather to contend with. No aggrevations to contend with. But that's just me.

Bad word usage on my part. Not training them how to "drive", they passed their driving test and/or come from the Teamster Hall... training them how to "deliver": how to follow the trace, where stops are delivered (e.g. "they have a receiving dock in the back"), how to handle the DIAD, etc.

959Nanook · 11-07-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grgrcr88

Same here!! Every driver needs to file grievances for 8hrs pay for every day you are laid off and a helper is used!!

Won't even get off the ground in my neck of the woods...

(1) my hours are not guaranteed because of Local supplement language that explicitly gives no "guaranteed hours" protection to bottom two seniority full-time drivers (never mind the issue that they abuse the language with permission from the union and say it applies to bottom two "scheduled" seniority full-time drivers).

(2) the stance is that the full-time seniority and part-time seniority are different animals so they can lay off full-timers and work part-timers with no repercussions (my Local allows it as a "local practice").

Incidentally, I have never gone 30 days with no work even when operations would have allowed it...they convince drivers to take option days on a Friday that they know someone is likely to call in sick, bring me in for "safety" hours and the monthly training, or whatever it takes to make sure I never go more than four full weeks with no work. My Center Manager feigned shock when I suggested that they would never allow me to go 30 days with no work.

959Nanook · 11-07-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grgrcr88

I think you should be able to use Article 32 of the national master as well as any seniority language in your regional supplements!!!

If you are talking about the peak season language that says they should use bargaining unit employees... this has always been problematic enforcement for us. Technically, helpers are bargaining unit employees (even if not Teamsters) I would imagine.

nocturnalbuck · 11-07-2009, 11:47 PM

i am the bottom driver at our center. i alternate between helping and driving during peak season as needed. while helping i get paid as a driver. just the other day i was laid off for a day while they had a helper working. i talked to our state union guy who said i was guaranteed 8 hrs if helping and i should be working before any helper. also, i had the right to work out of the center , as opposed to meeting a driver somewhere.

dannyboy · 11-08-2009, 07:32 AM

Quote:

They pull TP60s out to gated communities and have helpers delver them with a golf cart.

Who drives the carts?

We had issues here as well, with "helpers" working without being under the direct supervision of a driver. When you leave the helper for 3 hours while you are popping off stops, you are not in direct supervision of your helper.

Also, a driver drives the company vehicle. Any vehicle used to deliver packages. personal, public or otherwise becomes a company vehicle. And as such, the buy that drives it is a driver and is paid drivers wages. Period.

Here, any helper that does not have contact with the driver every 10-20 minutes is considered a driver.

At our center, days off by seniority are given while the lesser senior drivers are able to work.

But they have gotten a new Bosshole, so who knows how things will change.

But the over all language is clear. If you drive a vehicle for UPS while delivering, you are a driver, and entitled to drivers wages.

d

dilligaf-2 · 11-12-2009, 04:46 AM

I'm a full time driver and currently laid off and being a helper. This week they have me driving a golf cart in a small grid like area. As far as I'm concerned I am driving. and not helping. And next week my paycheck better reflect that. I was already told by the union that I will receive full drivers pay for helping (jumping).

grgrcr88 · 11-12-2009, 05:33 AM

Our bottom seniority driver won a grievance on Tuesday for 6hrs pay because he was not used as a driver and helpers were used. Ruling was that all available seniority drivers must be on the street prior to any helpers being used!!!

BrownBlue · 11-12-2009, 07:08 AM

What UPS is doing this peak is shamefull. I'd say 75% of drivers in our center are working between 10.5-12 hours a day, while they chop out routes. Missed are up, and worst of all chopped route pick ups are being missed but sheeted as stop complete. Local management doesnt care, it all looks good on numbers. Missed stops are being sheeted as NR1 per management. Well we should loose enough customers after this peak that IE will get their wish of chopping half the routes out.