Must be a "good" Driver in order to be a "good" Supervisor - Brown Cafe

Hoaxster · 11-07-2009, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrownBlue

In my center, the reason drivers go into management is because they were piss poor drivers and could not hack it at the driver position. And later tell you, "When I was a driver...." Failing to mention it was for a mere 90 days and they were sent out with half routes because they couldn't handle a full day.

I'm sure that happens occasionally.
A person could be a very good management candidate and not that good a driver.
We all know that being a scratch UPS driver requires a certain set of skills and discipline. That same set of skills are not the same set of skills needed to be a good management person.
I remember back in the 70's and 80's when the thought was that a driver that was a humper would make a good supervisor. Wound up with a lot of suboptimal management people before we figured out that was not true.

You hear the same thing from supervisors saying the ones that get promoted to manager were not the best supervisor. Same logic applies.
And managers complain that the ones that get promoted to Division manager were not the best center managers.
And so on and so on.
I imagine there were some on the management committee that thought Scott Davis was not the best one to be promoted to CEO.

wornoutupser · 11-07-2009, 06:00 AM

My supervisor misdelivered a next day air his last day onroad. I had to pick it up the next day and redeliver it to the correct address. Guess what kind of supervisor he turned out to be?

bumped · 11-07-2009, 06:57 AM

Quite a few of full time sups and even a center manager were drivers that had gotten hurt. They may not all have been reported injuries, but they had bad backs and bad shoulders...But, if you use the methods...

Baba gounj · 11-07-2009, 07:54 AM

Hoaxster it is so true.

There is a lot of distrust within our mgt "team ".
The hard workers are always passed over, while someone junior gets promoted.

Brown287 · 11-07-2009, 08:13 AM

Listen I would like to first state that I cant understand why anyone would go into management at this time in the companys history. With that said you now see why it is that UPS needs to scrape the bottom to fill thier management ranks. We have sups that have never driven we have managers that seem more disgruntle with thier job then a ditch digger. You would think that as a company we would want the best and pay them the best. Instead we get what we get and well you know, you take a pay cut to do it. Have I seen good sups and managers in my career...yes, but it deffinitley is not the norm. I would like to add that I have also seen plenty of horrible drivers, the difference is though I dont take marching orders from them.

Channahon · 11-07-2009, 08:31 AM

Management is all about business skills, such as leadership, interpersonal, organizational, conflict resolution, etc. And many hourly employees at UPS exhibit these skills, particularly drivers who take care of our customers. So those who want to pursue management at UPS or any other company already have these skills, they are just used in a different manner.

Just my opinion over the course of my working career at UPS and elsewherse since I was 16, now happily retired, and still use these skills to manage my lifestyle today.

cachsux · 11-07-2009, 08:39 AM

Hoax is correct about the theory,but it is not always the rule. I have seen every combination possible in this situation. People good in one spot may be good in the next,on up the ladder. Bad, bad on up. Good,bad. And bad,good. The thing to look at is in any position they may have the talent and brains to be good or bad for that position but those same skills may not work for them in the next.

Jones · 11-07-2009, 09:01 AM

The general pattern seems to be that people rise to the level of their incompetence, which is where they stay until they quit/retire/get fired. I reached my level years ago

dilligaf · 11-07-2009, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

.......................We all know that being a scratch UPS driver requires a certain set of skills and discipline. That same set of skills are not the same set of skills needed to be a good management person.................................

Ther is a set of skills that make a driver, a scratch driver? I have never run scratch on any rte, at least that I am aware of. I thought it had alot to do with the rte too. Maybe I am mistaken!

JimJimmyJames · 11-07-2009, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilligaf

Ther is a set of skills that make a driver, a scratch driver? I have never run scratch on any rte, at least that I am aware of. I thought it had alot to do with the rte too. Maybe I am mistaken!

To paraphrase:

"You can always tell who is a gentlemen or lady by the size of their paycheck!"

(I had a shop steward tell me this years ago, hehe)

And I will add:

You can't work like a gentlemen or lady and be a scratch driver, so be of good cheer!

over9five · 11-07-2009, 11:08 AM

I don't think you can say it either way.

I can think of several good drivers who went into management. Half are doing alright, and half are no longer with the company.

dilligaf · 11-07-2009, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimJimmyJames

To paraphrase:

"You can always tell who is a gentlemen or lady by the size of their paycheck!"

(I had a shop steward tell me this years ago, hehe)

And I will add:

You can't work like a gentlemen or lady and be a scratch driver, so be of good cheer!

I like that! Thank you.

brownrodster · 11-07-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilligaf

Ther is a set of skills that make a driver, a scratch driver?

Absolutely there are. Why do some drivers bonus on any route they do while the bid driver is always 1+ hours over? Those skills include: skipping breaks and lunches, speeding, running, throwing packages, doing pickups when most convenient instead of complying with pickup times, DRing in driveways instead of going to the house, etc... Just to name a few.

soberups · 11-07-2009, 12:20 PM

My father was a track/cross country/soccer coach/PE/health teacher at a community college.

One of the PE classes he taught was golf. He was, and is, very good at teaching people how to golf.

He himself is not a particularly good golfer. Many of the people he instructed went on to be far better golfers than he will ever be.

Managing and driving are different skill sets and a good manager doesnt necessarily need to have a lot of driving experience.

What he does need...is enough humility to be able to admit when he is wrong and when the driver he is managing should be given credit for his experience and knowledge.

upsguy72 · 11-07-2009, 12:22 PM

Being a good driver doesn't necessarily mean you'll be a good SUP but it does give you the knowledge and understand of what a driver does each day.

The whole comes down to how they use there knowledge to supervise and where there even the type of person that can SUP to start.

UpstateNYUPSer · 11-07-2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilligaf

There is a set of skills that make a driver, a scratch driver?

Absolutely there are. These include a good memory, a strong sense of direction, a solid work ethic, and the ability to think on your feet and to respond to changing conditions. It is possible to take care of your customers, take your lunch and break(s) and be a scratch driver.

My on-car drove for 15 years before going in to supervision. The move worked out well for him and his family and helped him put 2 kids through college with the last in his sophomore year. He was a solid driver--not the fastest but most certainly not the slowest, always took care of his customers. He has never forgotten what we go through out there but also knows when someone is trying to BS him. I don't mind helping him if he asks me to.

rod · 11-07-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownrodster

Absolutely there are. Why do some drivers bonus on any route they do while the bid driver is always 1+ hours over? Those skills include: skipping breaks and lunches, speeding, running, throwing packages, doing pickups when most convenient instead of complying with pickup times, DRing in driveways instead of going to the house, etc... Just to name a few.

I totally agree with this. The bottom line is if any driver brags that they are running under allowed while following all the proper methods UPS would change their allowances in a heart beat and you can't get me to believe any different.

UpstateNYUPSer · 11-07-2009, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rod

I totally agree with this. The bottom line is if any driver brags that they are running under allowed while following all the proper methods UPS would change their allowances in a heart beat and you can't get me to believe any different.

It is possible to follow all of the methods and run under allowed. Whether you believe that or not is of little concern.

cachsux · 11-07-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimJimmyJames

To paraphrase:

"You can always tell who is a gentlemen or lady by the size of their paycheck!"

(I had a shop steward tell me this years ago, hehe)

And I will add:

You can't work like a gentlemen or lady and be a scratch driver, so be of good cheer!

Then again I `ve seen strippers with pretty big bankrolls too.

brownrodster · 11-07-2009, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

It is possible to follow all of the methods and run under allowed. Whether you believe that or not is of little concern.

Depends on your time studies. I have been under allowed while following the rules. But that is only posible on a few routes in my center. We have drivers who don't hide the fact that they break every rule in the book to make sure they're done by 1700 everyday. 1 hour over is considered good in my building. We have ancient time studies that in no way reflect the reailty of 2009.

UpstateNYUPSer · 11-07-2009, 01:37 PM

Good point.

soberups · 11-07-2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownrodster

We have ancient time studies that in no way reflect the reailty of 2009.

Nor did they in any way reflect the reality of the time they were done. They were never intended to be fair or realistic in the first place, and time has done nothing to change that fact.

dilligaf · 11-07-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownrodster

Absolutely there are. Why do some drivers bonus on any route they do while the bid driver is always 1+ hours over? Those skills include: skipping breaks and lunches, speeding, running, throwing packages, doing pickups when most convenient instead of complying with pickup times, DRing in driveways instead of going to the house, etc... Just to name a few.

ooooohhhhh That's what the methods are. Well thanks but no thanks. I think I will pass.

dilligaf · 11-07-2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

Absolutely there are. These include a good memory, a strong sense of direction, a solid work ethic, and the ability to think on your feet and to respond to changing conditions. It is possible to take care of your customers, take your lunch and break(s) and be a scratch driver.

My on-car drove for 15 years before going in to supervision. The move worked out well for him and his family and helped him put 2 kids through college with the last in his sophomore year. He was a solid driver--not the fastest but most certainly not the slowest, always took care of his customers. He has never forgotten what we go through out there but also knows when someone is trying to BS him. I don't mind helping him if he asks me to.

Sweetheart, I use these methods everyday. We have talked and I believe you know this to be true. I have no reason to lie. I do my best everyday. I have made major improvements in the last year. Even to my own amazement. I run rte numbers better than some of the regular drivers. I don't run, I take my lunch and breaks, my priority is almost (caveat to follow) always my customers. You do have to admit that there is the factor of the rte itself and the numbers associated with that rte. I am not the fastest nor am I the slowest. But I can only be as good as what the numbers are for the rte. Some of those numbers are not even in this world.

For the first time since I started at UPS I have an on-rd that I like and trust (only as far as I can throw him

) For him, I would help out and have helped out.

Caveat: I don't let customers abuse me. If push came to shove my customer will get the short end of the stick if they think they can get away with abusing me. I would have no problemn what so ever delivering to a customer 5 minutes before they close if they are abusive.

brownrodster · 11-07-2009, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilligaf

ooooohhhhh That's what the methods are. Well thanks but no thanks. I think I will pass.

I heard that one of our drivers was seen delivering 9 stops without turning his truck off

They didn't teach us that at driver school.
I also saw a driver deliver my neighborhood without a seatbelt on.