UPS VP Suicide - Page 3 - Brown Cafe

Jones · 11-13-2009, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by island1fox

Jones,
I will try not to beat a dead horse..Good place --bad place whatever !!

AFTERLIFE OR NO AFTERLIFE. After that I agree we can talk about fire and brimstone or angels on clouds that look like 72 virgins !!

Sorry, didn't realize you were asking me a question

.
No, I don't believe in an afterlife.

trplnkl · 11-13-2009, 10:28 AM

[quote=Jones;633967]

Quote:

Originally Posted by island1fox

Well, religion/atheism isn't an either/or question. If you pick the wrong religion, you're in the same boat as the guy who picks no religion.
I'm not so sure that is true. If the muslims are right (for instance), you won't get a break just because you believe in some form of afterlife, since you're not a muslim you'll go to same bad place as old Bill Maher the atheist. That's sort of what I was getting at.
Since I have never read the Koran, I'm not real sure what it says about an afterlife. On the other hand atheists make it pretty clear that the believe the is no afterlife. Most religions are pretty exclusive about who gets into the good place.
Again, I'm not too sure that is a correct statement. Yes some do, but most? Of the different churches I have attended on a few have openly said this. That's one reason I like the quakers, even though I don't share their beliefs. They believe that there is no hell, god loves us all equally (sinners, saints, and atheists alike) because we are all his creations, ( I believe that) and everybody will be saved.( only those that do as He instructed)
You like what Quakers believe but you don't agree? You sound confused.

So to recap, it was said If Bill is right --no big deal --if I am right ---Bill is screwed, would be a correct statement. If Bill is right ,there is no afterlife, so nothing happens when you die and it is no big deal and religion is a waste of time(I've heard Maher say this).
If Pickup is right, there is an afterlife and Bill will more than likely not come out on the good side of that, i.e. he's screwed.

over9five · 11-13-2009, 10:32 AM

[quote=trplnkl;634007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jones

So to recap, it was said If Bill is right --no big deal --if I am right ---Bill is screwed, would be a correct statement. If Bill is right ,there is no afterlife, so nothing happens when you die and it is no big deal and religion is a waste of time(I've heard Maher say this).
If Pickup is right, there is an afterlife and Bill will more than likely not come out on the good side of that, i.e. he's screwed.

Unless the Quakers are right, and everyone's ok!

over9five · 11-13-2009, 10:37 AM

Not being religious, I don't know the answer to this, but....

Wouldn't God welcome all good people into Heaven, the believers and non-believers alike, because it was He who created them all and He who gave them all free will?

over9five · 11-13-2009, 10:38 AM

Should I be a Quaker?

Dis-organized Labor · 11-13-2009, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by over9five

Should I be a Quaker?

Or maybe a Devil Quacker?

trplnkl · 11-13-2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by over9five

Not being religious, I don't know the answer to this, but....

Wouldn't God welcome all good people into Heaven, the believers and non-believers alike, because it was He who created them all and He who gave them all free will?

Very good point, but that wasn't the question at hand. the IF's in these statements are larger than they appear.

Jones · 11-13-2009, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by over9five

Not being religious, I don't know the answer to this, but....

Wouldn't God welcome all good people into Heaven, the believers and non-believers alike, because it was He who created them all and He who gave them all free will?

A decent and just god would. A god who wouldn't doesn't deserve to worshiped, imho.

tieguy · 11-13-2009, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by over9five

Not being religious, I don't know the answer to this, but....

Wouldn't God welcome all good people into Heaven, the believers and non-believers alike, because it was He who created them all and He who gave them all free will?

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when a suicide muslim asks god for his 72 virgins.

Dizzee · 11-13-2009, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tieguy

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when a suicide muslim asks god for his 72 virgins.

over9five · 11-13-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tieguy

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when a suicide muslim asks god for his 72 virgins.

I like the journalists who call them what they are: Homicide bombers.

Dis-organized Labor · 11-13-2009, 11:53 AM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...111209824.html

upsgrunt · 11-13-2009, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by over9five

Not being religious, I don't know the answer to this, but....

Wouldn't God welcome all good people into Heaven, the believers and non-believers alike, because it was He who created them all and He who gave them all free will?

The Bible says: "all who believe and are baptized, will be saved". With your statement, "all good people", where is the faith and dedication to the Lord? You don't just turn your Christianity on and off when it is convienient, or when your fate for eternity is at risk. I do believe that people on their deathbeds that weren't formerly saved can do so- God loves us that much.

over9five · 11-13-2009, 12:44 PM

Ah, so only robots can go to Heaven. No-one with independent thought allowed?

Dis-organized Labor · 11-13-2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by over9five

Ah, so only robots can go to Heaven. No-one with independent thought allowed?

WARNING, WARNING.....

upsgrunt · 11-13-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by over9five

Ah, so only robots can go to Heaven. No-one with independent thought allowed?

I don't know about the robot theory, but there has to be some accountability. You were given free will and free thought, not free reign. By the way, being a Christian does not mean you don't sin. It just means that you hold yourself to a higher level of acknowledging your sins and asking for forgiveness. I could be wrong, so don't think that I am the expert. All my information comes from the manual, if you know what I mean.

Jones · 11-13-2009, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upsgrunt

The Bible says: "all who believe and are baptized, will be saved". With your statement, "all good people", where is the faith and dedication to the Lord? You don't just turn your Christianity on and off when it is convienient, or when your fate for eternity is at risk. I do believe that people on their deathbeds that weren't formerly saved can do so- God loves us that much.

That goes back to my point about the wrong-believer being in the same boat as the non-believer. If christianity is the right choice, then muslims, buddhists, shintoists, animists, and everybody else are no better off than the atheists, despite having spent their whole lives devoutly believing in an afterlife. Conversely, if one of the other religions is right, christians are stuck in the bad place with all the other mistaken folk. When you consider there have been literally hundreds (if not thousands) of religions thoughout the course of human history, it's really a crap shoot. No matter which one you pick, the odds are against you.

upsgrunt · 11-13-2009, 01:34 PM

I'm not telling you what to believe; only what I believe. Take it or leave it-the info is there if you want it.

diesel96 · 11-13-2009, 01:39 PM

Heard it thru the grapevine.....

72 virgins ? or 72 rasins ?

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread211640/pg1

YouTube- The California Raisins I Heard It Through the Grapevine Remix

Jones · 11-13-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upsgrunt

I'm not telling you what to believe; only what I believe. Take it or leave it-the info is there if you want it.

I wouldn't dream of telling you what to believe either, just sharing my own thoughts on the subject. Individuals should have the absolute right to believe or not believe whatever they choose without consequence as long as they do no harm to others.

upsgrunt · 11-13-2009, 02:02 PM

Agreed-
That's the freewill thing.

island1fox · 11-13-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jones

Sorry, didn't realize you were asking me a question

.
No, I don't believe in an afterlife.

Jones,
I really have no problem with you nor was I asking you a question.
I just stated what Bill Maher believes and what I believe. One of us has to be wrong --we both cannot be right ---totally opposite views

I can see from some of the other posts that we have confused people on who said what !!

Jones · 11-13-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by island1fox

Jones,
I really have no problem with you nor was I asking you a question.
I just stated what Bill Maher believes and what I believe. One of us has to be wrong --we both cannot be right ---totally opposite views

I can see from some of the other posts that we have confused people on who said what !!

I agree that you can't both be right, but assuming that you have some specific religious beliefs (if I'm wrong about that, I apologize), it is entirely possible for you both to be wrong. That's what I was getting at when I stated "What if you're both wrong?"

island1fox · 11-13-2009, 05:58 PM

Jones,
You seem like a standup person --no need to apologize.
I really have some problems with "organized man made religions" --on that I could agree with Maher ----they have caused many problems .
But I do believe in some type of "Intelligent Design" Some people say God ---some people don't --none of can know for sure either way --its just a question of faith .

UPS Lifer · 11-13-2009, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wannabeups

Right you? Are you a former Marine? I asked everyone at work last night if they knew whose birthday it was? Hardly anyone knew. I can say too much though. My math was wrong and I said they were 233 years old.

My son will tell you "Once a Marine.... always a Marine". There is no such thing as a former Marine.

I am the proud father of a Marine!