Not one valid reason to stay with the Teamsters

[engineer 79]

This is a follow up to the discussion on "are the Teamsters really working for you". In that discussion, I asked for one valid reason to remain loyal to the Teamsters, and in three weeks, not one of you pro-Teamster backers have stepped forward and come up with only one reason. The best you could come up with was a picture of a wrench, or a statement that you don't trust the APWA. If you want any credability, you must say why you don't trust the APWA. This is like a virgin saying he doesn't like sex. What has the APWA done that can not be trusted? The Teamsters however, have shown their true colors. They have cut your benefits and pension, and they are not done yet making cuts. While our pensions are in a critical state, they (the Teamster leaders) have no problem giving our money away to other companies and to themselves. The bottom line is that there are no valid reasons to continue throwing your union dues and UPS pension money into the Teamster treasury. They should be working for you, but unfortunately, you are working for them. I am still waiting to hear an intelligent response on this issue. If you can not come up with one valid reason, then I have to assume that you agree with me, and it is time to abandon a sinking ship (Teamsters), cut our losses, and head in a new direction (APWA).

[mittam]

AMEN!!!!!!

[over9five]

Who is this APWA?? Never seen them. Never even heard them mentioned except on the internet.

Where are they?

When I retire in 5 years, how much will they give me per month?

Where were they when my salary was negotiated to $28 an hour?

I envision a UPS union as being the equivelant of the safety committee. Lots of talk, but will only do what the company will let them.

[Raw]

$28 per hour compared to Fed-X $22 per hour, job security, good health benefits for the cost of union dues, a pension for starters.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by engineer 79

This is a follow up to the discussion on "are the Teamsters really working for you". In that discussion, I asked for one valid reason to remain loyal to the Teamsters, and in three weeks, not one of you pro-Teamster backers have stepped forward and come up with only one reason. The best you could come up with was a picture of a wrench, or a statement that you don't trust the APWA. If you want any credability, you must say why you don't trust the APWA. This is like a virgin saying he doesn't like sex. What has the APWA done that can not be trusted? The Teamsters however, have shown their true colors. They have cut your benefits and pension, and they are not done yet making cuts. While our pensions are in a critical state, they (the Teamster leaders) have no problem giving our money away to other companies and to themselves. The bottom line is that there are no valid reasons to continue throwing your union dues and UPS pension money into the Teamster treasury. They should be working for you, but unfortunately, you are working for them. I am still waiting to hear an intelligent response on this issue. If you can not come up with one valid reason, then I have to assume that you agree with me, and it is time to abandon a sinking ship (Teamsters), cut our losses, and head in a new direction (APWA).

same question again. You list a lot of reasons why you don't like the teamsters. What makes APWA the obvious replacement. What experience do they bring to the table. What union have the managed in the past. What retirement plan have they previously engineered that has done so much better then the teamsters. Look I'm management and I certainly have no love for the teamsters but I do have to ask why APWA what makes them better?

[Griff]

Originally Posted by tieguy

same question again. You list a lot of reasons why you don't like the teamsters. What makes APWA the obvious replacement. What experience do they bring to the table. What union have the managed in the past. What retirement plan have they previously engineered that has done so much better then the teamsters. Look I'm management and I certainly have no love for the teamsters but I do have to ask why APWA what makes them better?

Nothing makes them better. Getting rid of the Teamsters, for the likes of the APWA, is like firing an NFL head coach and replacing him with a highschool music teacher. I feel for these central state people (the main warsong chanters for this movement) who are essentially being robbed by the Teamsters, but they should of had a financial plan B in place. After working for UPS for so many years, you'd think you would get used to having to do everything yourself for it to get done correctly.

[wyobill]

Fed Ex drivers dont work half as hard as we do. Teamsters are stealing our pension dollars. I want UPS contributions go to UPS people only. Our pension is watered down thanks to subsidizing other retires.
Time to fire the Teamsters!

[local804]

Im a little tired tonight to get into this topic, maybe another night.
I will say the NFL coach for a music teacher did crack me up though.

[brett636]

Originally Posted by tieguy

same question again. You list a lot of reasons why you don't like the teamsters. What makes APWA the obvious replacement. What experience do they bring to the table. What union have the managed in the past. What retirement plan have they previously engineered that has done so much better then the teamsters. Look I'm management and I certainly have no love for the teamsters but I do have to ask why APWA what makes them better?

Exactly, I stated this in the other thread, but engineer79 convienantly ignores it.

[ups-submariner]

There are plenty of valid arguments for the International Brotherhood of Teamsters Union. I've done some research on the Teamsters and unions in general. The Great Depression was no picnic as far as I can tell. The history of labor unions was not pretty, but I'm afraid of my corporation without the union. Engineer 79 you haven't stated your case clearly nor even spelled out what APWA even means. I'm sorry you're a teamster brother against your will. Have you considered moving to a "right to work" state? The Teamsters have had my back for 20 years. I would not be here today if not for the brotherhood. You have not made your case FOR the APWA or AGAINST the Teamsters as far as I can tell. Hey Tieguy I did like you comment here.

[30andout]

IMO representing myself with other UPSers has to be better than the teamsters. I would at least then have a voice.

[wyobill]

Originally Posted by tieguy

same question again. You list a lot of reasons why you don't like the teamsters. What makes APWA the obvious replacement. What experience do they bring to the table. What union have the managed in the past. What retirement plan have they previously engineered that has done so much better then the teamsters. Look I'm management and I certainly have no love for the teamsters but I do have to ask why APWA what makes them better?

Tieguy: Why did UPS try to get out of Central States pension fund in 97?

[dragracer66]

Originally Posted by over9five

Who is this APWA?? Never seen them. Never even heard them mentioned except on the internet.

Where are they?

When I retire in 5 years, how much will they give me per month?

Where were they when my salary was negotiated to $28 an hour?

I envision a UPS union as being the equivelant of the safety committee. Lots of talk, but will only do what the company will let them.

Hey Over....I totaly agree with your thread...This coming from a machinist with parcel I have never heard of the apwa. This seem's like the only site that they are talked about. If they are so good who else do they represent and what's their background? While what happened to the guy's in the central states is a unforunate thing getting rid of the teamsters is not the answer! Maybe the idea of parcel taking over the pension in 1997 wasn't such a bad idea especially in the central states!!

[satellitedriver]

Originally Posted by over9five

Who is this APWA?? Never seen them. Never even heard them mentioned except on the internet.

Where are they?

When I retire in 5 years, how much will they give me per month?

Where were they when my salary was negotiated to $28 an hour?

I envision a UPS union as being the equivelant of the safety committee. Lots of talk, but will only do what the company will let them.

Go to www.parcelworkers.com and ask them your questions. Or were you just saying that your union can not keep you safe.

[big_arrow_up]

Yes the Teamsters have negotiated good pay and beneifts for us but that is what they are supposed to do! Someone mentioned that they have our backs. Well, if you look at our pension situation it would appear that they have only turned their back on us. They seem to have the back of the other 40%. They just need big brown to keep the gravy train rolling. Their only concern is making sure we get less of the gravy then everyone else.

As far as the APWA goes...I was kind of interested in them but they pretty much lost my support when I noticed they were trying to organize Overnit/UPS Freight. A union soley for UPS huh?

[DS]

Originally Posted by Griff

Nothing makes them better. Getting rid of the Teamsters, for the likes of the APWA, is like firing an NFL head coach and replacing him with a highschool music teacher. I feel for these central state people (the main warsong chanters for this movement) who are essentially being robbed by the Teamsters,( but they should of had a financial plan B in place.) After working for UPS for so many years, you'd think you would get used to having to do everything yourself for it to get done correctly.

Whoa there... the central state people should have realized that the corrupt union was embezzling thier pensions and acted accordingly?

how would the average person know this unless they were on the take as a teamster or a friend of yours?

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by wyobill

Tieguy: Why did UPS try to get out of Central States pension fund in 97?

We tried to get out of all multi-employer pension plans in 97. Why opens up a whole can of possible worms:

1) union theory - to eventually control the pensions and not have to pay into them. Actual we offered a single employer plan that would have been co-administered therefore no company control.

2) Because we love our people and want the best for them. Actual - we recognize our people could do a lot better and we had a lot of our people asking us to fix the crappy plans once they lost faith in the teamsters to do so.

3) We saw huge potential liabilities with multi-employer plans. Actual - lot of truth through that answer. And it scares the crap out of us today. CS issues are the tip of the iceburg. A CS folding would mean the feds step in and expect us to dole out a lot more money to cover the plans liabilities. A CS folding could pull all of us down.

4) Going after the pension was meant to bring Carey to his knees. Actual - some truth to this . We threatened to go after the pension in 93 and got those stalemated talks moving. We then studied the issue and thought if ever we better do it in 97 since laws enacted would make it much more expensive for us to do so later. At this point I am speculating but I believe it was a ploy to get the teamsters to either give the pension plans up or to get them to do more to fix those plans. In so doing we may have also helped hurt them. Many plans looked at our offer to pay 3000 a month and raised their disbursements to meet that offer. CS was one of them. The teamsters did little to fix the plans Thus more being paid out and no more going in. Despite that its possible these plans would have been ok if not for the damage that 9/11 and the enron scandels did to the stock market and pension investments. Pension investors were not set up to quickly pull their money out. Those investment decisions are made methodically slow thus they sat their with their thumbs up their rears as the stock market quickly soured.

So short answer - the time was right to go after those pensions since it would cost much more to do so later. We went after them because many of our people asked us to do so and because we are scared to death of the financial liabilities we would encur if one of those huge monster plans should fold. CS would be the worst because we are the big dog in that plan and we would pay through the nose if it went up.

JMHOFWIW.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by ups-submariner

There are plenty of valid arguments for the International Brotherhood of Teamsters Union. I've done some research on the Teamsters and unions in general. The Great Depression was no picnic as far as I can tell. The history of labor unions was not pretty, but I'm afraid of my corporation without the union. Engineer 79 you haven't stated your case clearly nor even spelled out what APWA even means. I'm sorry you're a teamster brother against your will. Have you considered moving to a "right to work" state? The Teamsters have had my back for 20 years. I would not be here today if not for the brotherhood. You have not made your case FOR the APWA or AGAINST the Teamsters as far as I can tell. Hey Tieguy I did like you comment here.

Thanks . Nothing wrong with not trusting the company even I am not stupid enough to think the company would keep me around if they thought they could do without my services or find a cheaper way.

To me though fixing the pension plan may require getting in bed with the company a little more then what is traditionally taught in the hall. What about some type of profit sharing option to infuse extra funds into your retirement plans. Or a 401 k match to shore up retirement plans. These types of options your union whomever it is will not ask for. You will have to tell them to ask for them.

[Gman24]

Originally Posted by big_arrow_up

Yes the Teamsters have negotiated good pay and beneifts for us but that is what they are supposed to do! Someone mentioned that they have our backs. Well, if you look at our pension situation it would appear that they have only turned their back on us. They seem to have the back of the other 40%. They just need big brown to keep the gravy train rolling. Their only concern is making sure we get less of the gravy then everyone else.

As far as the APWA goes...I was kind of interested in them but they pretty much lost my support when I noticed they were trying to organize Overnit/UPS Freight. A union soley for UPS huh?

UPS FrEIGHT came to the APWA and asked to organize. Why would they not be a part of the picture, SINCE THEY ARE UPS people now. UPS does own them now. Last trailer I saw has a UPS symbol on the trailer as well as the cab. After all why would they UPS FREIGHT (formerly OVERNITE) want to go back to the TEAMSTERS when they were not able to win the fight for them 6 or 7 years ago. MANY of those employees never got their jobs back after walking. OH,, but that's another story.

[18wheelbrownie]

tieguy,
yes i remember the 3000 amount for 30 yrs but you forgot to mention , when the employee begins to collect social security , it would have been deducted from the 3000 a month and still no cola!!!!