Volume Loss?

[wily_old_vet]

A statement has been made on the Yahoo UPS Board that due to the rate increase, bad shipping software (Worldship 9.0) and the new DIM weight pricing that we are losing a lot of volume to both FDX (which hasn't implemented DIM weight pricing yet) and freight companies. I was curious to see if those who actually deal with the packages have seen any evidence of this.

[raceanoncr]

Originally Posted by wily_old_vet

A statement has been made on the Yahoo UPS Board that due to the rate increase, bad shipping software (Worldship 9.0) and the new DIM weight pricing that we are losing a lot of volume to both FDX (which hasn't implemented DIM weight pricing yet) and freight companies. I was curious to see if those who actually deal with the packages have seen any evidence of this.

Don't know about nationally but here, locally, we've lost a ton o businsess, mainly to FDX. Why? From what we've seen, the company just does not want to service the customers. Sure, I know, cost is always an issue, but consider this one exam:

We have a large account that sends out trailers every day. Sounds good, huh? UPS started a new run to a new location to appease the account. Now UPS told them that they have to have the doors closed at 3:30 (that's afternoon, always hated military time). This company wants them closed at 4:00. FDX stated they can come at 4:30. Guess who's gonna win?

I know all the arguments about profit and logistics and ramifications and all. This is just ONE example that's been happening here.

Meanwhile "Account Executives" are busy in the centers handing out "Lead" cards to the drivers so they (the "Executives") don't have to work so hard!

[westsideworma]

Originally Posted by raceanoncr

Don't know about nationally but here, locally, we've lost a ton o businsess, mainly to FDX. Why? From what we've seen, the company just does not want to service the customers. Sure, I know, cost is always an issue, but consider this one exam:

We have a large account that sends out trailers every day. Sounds good, huh? UPS started a new run to a new location to appease the account. Now UPS told them that they have to have the doors closed at 3:30 (that's afternoon, always hated military time). This company wants them closed at 4:00. FDX stated they can come at 4:30. Guess who's gonna win?

I know all the arguments about profit and logistics and ramifications and all. This is just ONE example that's been happening here.

Meanwhile "Account Executives" are busy in the centers handing out "Lead" cards to the drivers so they (the "Executives") don't have to work so hard!

yeah its for real, they've been at the part timers to get sales leads too in our hub. We're down about 6000 packages a day on the preload (according to what they tell us). Which is about the size of a small center close to us (Leominster). They've been going on about think of the new hires they'll have to layoff because of the shortage. Yet my trucks don't look any lighter? I know you can't judge it by that though. two of them were smacked full today (they cut TONS of routes today). One of them ridiculously so (bet it was because they put a cover driver on it).

They were talking about it today but I was busy looking at the 22.3 combo sheet

[LKLND3380]

Originally Posted by wily_old_vet

A statement has been made on the Yahoo UPS Board that due to the rate increase, bad shipping software (Worldship 9.0) and the new DIM weight pricing that we are losing a lot of volume to both FDX (which hasn't implemented DIM weight pricing yet) and freight companies. I was curious to see if those who actually deal with the packages have seen any evidence of this.

I have seen no loss here... I am still waiting for volume to drop from peak two years ago...

[fredly00]

Another Brief Example:

My sister worked for a small company that did about 750k in shipping
alot of NDA, and other far off places, but also alot to the US.

Regardless, she could hardly get her account rep on the phone, let alone
ever see the rep. Not to mention her drivers would change weekly or daily
depending on whatever(delivery times varied too) most of the time they would need to turn packages around that day, doesn't help when your deliveries show up after your pickup.

FedEx was so agressive they flew two guys a regional director and a rep to visit, they brought donuts, and basically treated her very nice.
Although while FedEx might not provide the "service" of UPS, they put their best foot forward, and tried.. UPS on the other hand did nothing to help her`

[coldworld]

No loss here either. It is very busy. Ups likes to twist numbers, as most of you all know. People, look at daily volume numbers from 2 years ago and from last year....its up, and by more than it has been the past 4 or 5 years. I dont have the time but someone on this board should look into it then post your findings.

[coldworld]

btw, wiley, are you really going to believe everything you read on yahoo, or any other site??? If my mind hasnt mistaken me, arent you retired, so your probably out of the loop on much of the happenings of ups now days, but your not missing much. Yahoo is famous for having many anti-ups people on there, especially ex upsers and fedex morons who really have no idea whats going on, especially on the yahoo groups sites, ups and fedex...many idiots on there, thats why I stopped going on there and posting. Fedexers 5 years ago saying they were going to shut ups down...please. If anyone on here really look into the business of shipping, and how many "major" players are out there, and growth and all that crap that people look at, ups is in a very good position to keep #1 position for many more years to come. The biggest drawback ups has is its ability of management to LISTEN, THEN REACT to the happenings of customers by drivers who have a very good idea of whats going on out in the field. I believe ups as a whole understands this and hopefully implement something to help with this. Wily, you can go on here and see multiple times when drivers have a tip on something and tell mgt, or turn in a solid sales lead and nothing happens.

[helenofcalifornia]

OK this maybe rather naive of me, but if UPS is netting $3 billion a year, can't they forgo the rate increases for awhile or something? I see business as flat. Where once we delivered 10 boxes to a business, now only one, if that. I know that customers have always complained about the lack of customer rep attention. Fedex beat us all over that one. What's the answer?

[raceanoncr]

Originally Posted by coldworld

No loss here either. It is very busy. Ups likes to twist numbers, as most of you all know. People, look at daily volume numbers from 2 years ago and from last year....its up, and by more than it has been the past 4 or 5 years. I dont have the time but someone on this board should look into it then post your findings.

Cold, yes I DO have approximate #'s, for here anyway. And by the way, I want to emphasize that I'm only talking what I see here, because you know what? WE'RE LOSING JOBS HERE, THAT'S WHY!

Non-peak hub numbers was about 90,000. At peak, of course, it ballooned. Now, between 53 and 55,000. Up? I don't think so.

UPS likes to twist #'s? Maybe so, but you can't twist the echoes we hear in the yard where trailers used to be.

[wily_old_vet]

Originally Posted by coldworld

btw, wiley, are you really going to believe everything you read on yahoo, or any other site??? If my mind hasnt mistaken me, arent you retired, so your probably out of the loop on much of the happenings of ups now days, but your not missing much. Yahoo is famous for having many anti-ups people on there, especially ex upsers and fedex morons who really have no idea whats going on, especially on the yahoo groups sites, ups and fedex...many idiots on there, thats why I stopped going on there and posting. Fedexers 5 years ago saying they were going to shut ups down...please. If anyone on here really look into the business of shipping, and how many "major" players are out there, and growth and all that crap that people look at, ups is in a very good position to keep #1 position for many more years to come. The biggest drawback ups has is its ability of management to LISTEN, THEN REACT to the happenings of customers by drivers who have a very good idea of whats going on out in the field. I believe ups as a whole understands this and hopefully implement something to help with this. Wily, you can go on here and see multiple times when drivers have a tip on something and tell mgt, or turn in a solid sales lead and nothing happens.

Duh!!! Why do you think I started this thread Coldworld? Yes I am retired (and watching a driver all bundled up spinning on the ice made me say thank God I don't work there any more) but I do still own stock and just wanted to get some feedback from those who are in the thick of the fray. I believe its called due diligence.

[coldworld]

dont get your pants in a uproar.All Im trying to say is that yahoo is not reliable, especially the groups. The problem may be internal. Thats why I stop comming on here, same old 5 people posting the fall of ups. If there was a serious problem, ups would be addressing the weak customer service from reps, or center teams screwing with customers pickup times, etc. You all can say whatever you want about " local volume", OVERALL its up and has been year after year...period. Thats a fact! Every district is different. DHL has better growth areas than others, same with fedex, ups freight, yellow, etc. Its like what I said on my last post, if ups mgt would listen to drivers concerns, if reps would get more on the ball, your area wouldnt have that problem race. Ups is neglecting its largest advantage with the competion....its drivers.

[coldworld]

helen, thats why they dont care, 3 billion is the reason. Im not trying to stir anything up with any of you, we are all co-workers. Im not trying to say that ups hasnt lost some accounts to fedex, dhl, etc. I know this business is competitive. But you all need to start complaining with your upper management about these issues. Do any of you agree that ups drivers are the key into stepping up things. If you think about it, its a huge bonus for ups. Also helen, ups says they cant compete with dhl pricing, many times...ok, three 3 billion, and you cant compete. There needs to be a updating in the philosophy of this company. Ok, 100 years and we do some of the same things we did since day one. Some things will never change, but in regards to being more competitive with pricing for small to medium customers, customers demands for little "extras" and having sales teams that are "local" and actually go visit customers once in a while( which the company has totally gone away from.) If your a small business in california, you shouldnt have a sales rep in texas, it just doesnt work. Finally, there needs to be open dialogue between corporate ups and local centers on feedback about customers. Bottom line, ups would rather try to micromanage drivers than hear real world feedback. Ups needs to finally kick the idea that their employees are trying to shut down the company...this is the mindset of SOME management.It just isnt true. I think if labor relations were better, the process of sales were looked at and changed then ups would find more customers to service.

[helenofcalifornia]

What stops drivers from putting in sales leads? Duh! The fear that any new volume will be put on their truck w and no help with reduced stops or whatever. If UPS would address increased sales lead volume with reduced stops I think maybe the drivers would go for it. But ALOT of drivers are burned out with increased pressure to do this, or do that and do it all and be in under 9.5. Even safety meetings that start at 7:30 in the morning now count in your 9.5. No reduced stop counts when you have a 7:30 early start though. I wonder if UPS even cares about the workers anymore or just the stockholder? Easy answer. UPS should never have gone public.

[coldworld]

I dont fully agree with that last statement, although many on here do. Yes public has changed some things but other items have stayed the same. If ups was going to use that money from going bublic for something big, then thats great, but the purchases they have made to date could have been done without the publics money. Yes they have cut back, but they did that when this company was a private organization. Your right about the sales lead program and drivers, thats a problem that someone has to address. When people work 11 hours with no lunch, ask for an 8 hr request then dont get it, there will be problems, ups knows about this they dont care....they never have even when this was a private company.

[browniehound]

Wily,
I'm pretty sure all shipping companies use the DIM weight to calulate price. not just UPS. So I don't think we're at a competitive disadvantage in that regard.

[wornoutupser]

Helen,
You have hit the nail on the head in my case.
I run a rural run. UPS has refused to send me over 70 help because "you are too far out".
I recently left a 148 lb package in a parking lot because I was told to. There is a secretary there that might weigh 115 soaking wet.
If they gave us help, things would be different.

I am STILL amazed that UPS took the word SERVICE off of the side of the truck!

[westsideworma]

Originally Posted by wornoutupser

Helen,
You have hit the nail on the head in my case.
I run a rural run. UPS has refused to send me over 70 help because "you are too far out".
I recently left a 148 lb package in a parking lot because I was told to. There is a secretary there that might weigh 115 soaking wet.
If they gave us help, things would be different.

I am STILL amazed that UPS took the word SERVICE off of the side of the truck!

It'd be false advertising

seriously we have the ability to give amazing service, the drivers are hard workers, believe it or not us part timers generally bust our rears and try to do a good job as well, but UPS just tries to half-@$$ it. If they can get by with 10 routes comfortably they'll run 7 and etc. Rushing PTimers of the clock and rushing them to get it all in the truck breeds misloads, but they don't care ("nothing we have seen proves that").

I don't blame our management because they're are just doing what their management tells them lol. Many of them know it doesn't make sense, but they preach it anyways because its their job.

[over9five]

"I'm pretty sure all shipping companies use the DIM weight to calulate price."

Ditto that.

[squeekywheel]

Not sure where the 3 billion number comes from, but here are some numbers from the last earnings announcement:

2006
Net Income from Operations: 4.2 Billion
Other: 1.5 Billion
------------------------------------------
Free Cash Flow: 5.7 Billion

The Free Cash Flow was used as follows:
Investment in Capital Expenditures: 3.1 Billion
Dividends Paid: 1.6 Billion
Other: 1.0 Billion
---------------------------------------------
Total: 5.7 Billion

When talking about cutting the profit, you need to be specific about what gets cut. Do you cut cap ex (new planes, vehicles, buildings, DIADs)? That's where most of the profits go. Do you cut dividends? Based on comments on this board, people are less than thrilled already with the invesment results.

If you go digging into the 10-Q filings on the SEC site, the other categories are broken out in more detail.

[BLACKBOX]

All I know is I'm seeing more and more DHL And FDX trucks picking up from accounts that were long Loyal (?) UPS accounts. DHL is also running a straight truck in my area, never seen that before. In the early mornings FDX Ground,Express,Freight and Home Delivery are saturating my area.

The UPS freight trucks is my area haven't even been re-branded yet, just those stupid magnet signs on the door. We gotta step up to the plate!