Sup Work Vs Part time work

brownmex · 03-02-2007, 12:01 PM

I know you can file a grievance if a sup is working instead of a part timer. But what about training? If a sup is training a new hire is it okay for them to be working then? I am a sorter and every time we get a new hire on the unload which seems to be every week since no one wants that job, the sup that trains them ends up unloading almost the entire truck while the new hire just watches. The sup has a pph of something like 1400-1500 so he is really fast and I am getting tired of sorting him all the time just because he is training someone. I can keep up fine with him, I just don't feel I should have to sort a sup. So is there anything I can do or do I just have to be annoyed with him?

HazMatMan · 03-02-2007, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownmex

I know you can file a grievance if a sup is working instead of a part timer. But what about training? If a sup is training a new hire is it okay for them to be working then? I am a sorter and every time we get a new hire on the unload which seems to be every week since no one wants that job, the sup that trains them ends up unloading almost the entire truck while the new hire just watches. The sup has a pph of something like 1400-1500 so he is really fast and I am getting tired of sorting him all the time just because he is training someone. I can keep up fine with him, I just don't feel I should have to sort a sup. So is there anything I can do or do I just have to be annoyed with him?

A sup is SUPPOSED to train new employees. That does NOT mean the sup AND the trainee load a set of package cars. The sup does the work (correctly, and following ALL methods) while the trainee watches and observes him. ALSO, let him unload the trailer as fast as he wants, because chances are he is doing it incorrectly (improper training) As long as you are unloading safely and are following the correct methods. This is not a contest to see who unloads the fastest. That is how INJURIES OCCUR......

HazMatMan · 03-02-2007, 12:59 PM

Remember, before filing a grievance for a sup working, find out why he is working. If they are down more people than can be replaced, if a crew member goes home sick, if a crew member goes to the bathroom, coffee, etc.... then they can work... at least that is what it says in my contract book, yours might be different....

scratch · 03-02-2007, 01:14 PM

I would think that supervisors can handle packages while demostrating to a new hire about how to do the job. I started out as a Loader, it doesn't take that long to figure out how to put boxes on a set of rollers and belt to load/unload a trailer.:confused1

HazMatMan · 03-02-2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scratch_king

I would think that supervisors can handle packages while demostrating to a new hire about how to do the job. I started out as a Loader, it doesn't take that long to figure out how to put boxes on a set of rollers and belt to load/unload a trailer.:confused1

Yes he/she can handle packages, while the trainee stands by and OBSERVES the sup working/training.... Hand to surface in the trailer please....

HazMatMan · 03-02-2007, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scratch_king

I would think that supervisors can handle packages while demostrating to a new hire about how to do the job. I started out as a Loader, it doesn't take that long to figure out how to put boxes on a set of rollers and belt to load/unload a trailer.:confused1

Your right, it doesn't take long, but to do it properly is a different story...

fedup15672 · 03-02-2007, 02:24 PM

It is ok for the sup. to work as long as the new hire is watching and not working. I was once a training sup. myself. And sometimes we weren't given a chioce we were told by the ones above us to do it so we could get the sort down on time. I personally think it is unfair to everyone. Because the new hire isn't getting the real training time they need. the sup. has to do someone else's job while they stand around and get paid. And it's not fair to the sorter .

canon · 03-02-2007, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownmex

So is there anything I can do or do I just have to be annoyed with him?

Work as trained, follow methods. Don't let his pace make you sacrifice safety or risk damages. Yell, "Is that all you got?" every now and then.

brownguyinbrowns · 03-02-2007, 09:24 PM

Training a new hire by performing safe work methods and they watch,yes. Working with him/her while he is working at the same time no. That was what I called the 2 for 1 deal. The supe is paid salary and is paid regardless the new hire by hourly which means the less he is on the clock the less UPS pays him and everyone else because the job is being performed by 2 people not 1 and the full intent I felt was to get down faster. Having supervisors work does not allow them to properly watch over their work area, employees, do their paperwork, properly train new people, follow up with them, and to correct and adjust to problems that arise during the course of a shift. It allows UPS to take work away from other hourlies and to get people off the clock faster. In my area UPS still tries to get down in 3.5-4hrs even though our hub services some the fastest growing cities in the nation. They we're trying to accomplish this by having every supervisor in the preload work including full timers. A few of us stood together, pt and ft, and stopped this(at least stopped it from happening so regularly) by filing greivances on it consistently.
They have finally figured out here they need to hire more people I don't know if this directly from having to pay tens of thousands of dollars in grievance checks or the numbers finally proved themselves to IE. Just make sure to ask why they are working as HazMatMan had stated. Filing a grievance with out talking to your manager about it or letting him/her be aware of the problem only makes you look like somebody who hides behind the union. Talking with managers about a problem before filing a greivance led to some of the problems being fixed without a greivance being filed and a more professional and business relationship between us.(teamsters and management). Plus you've got to work with them also because things happen out of their control people no call no showing, going home sick or an egress problem. I know every building is different I just wanted say what worked for us here. Sorry for rambling, hope this helped.

tieguy · 03-03-2007, 01:00 AM

yes they are allowed to train employees by demonstrating the job to them.

browned out · 03-03-2007, 05:31 AM

Follow the methods and there is nothing wrong with the old Hold UP to slow him down. Not saying to stroke it, do your pph rate.

HazMatMan · 03-03-2007, 05:38 AM

Yup, just follow your methods, do your required pph, (whatever that may be) I'm thinking if the sup is unloading like a monster (idiot) then there may be a lot of missed pieces and he will have a lot of explaining to do....

local804 · 03-03-2007, 08:24 AM

Did you ever notice how the majority of the supervisors that got promoted are not the suits that are working around the clock when the full timers go home? They actually are doing their job to supervise their employees and they dont have to work. Whats the reasoning of going into supervision if your still going to do physical union work per UPS contract? I also made a note of a FT suit taking 40 stops off of a new driver and the following day adding the work he did to the drivers timecard. The suit is a halfway good guy with a family, I dont know why he would be so stupid. Sooner or later it will bite him in the ass.

tieguy · 03-03-2007, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HazMatMan

Yup, just follow your methods, do your required pph, (whatever that may be) I'm thinking if the sup is unloading like a monster (idiot) then there may be a lot of missed pieces and he will have a lot of explaining to do....

Curious. How does a sup demonstrating a fast unload rate lead to missed pieces?

tieguy · 03-03-2007, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by local804

Did you ever notice how the majority of the supervisors that got promoted are not the suits that are working around the clock when the full timers go home? They actually are doing their job to supervise their employees and they dont have to work. Whats the reasoning of going into supervision if your still going to do physical union work per UPS contract? .

I agree and its something we have to break some of our sups of. Good sups direct their people. Poor ones would rather move the package then ask someone to do it.

PETE'S NEPHEW · 03-03-2007, 10:55 AM

Anyone who has had that rare UPS experiance of working in a top-notch operation (even for a little while) knows that training is the key. I've always been amazed at the amount of money and time UPS has invested in training programs and then how little they follow-up. Training is vital to making everyone's job easier. That being said, a sup pumping out 1300 PPH for a new-hire is not the right way to go. You have to train safety and methods first - speed will come with familiarity of the job. There also has to be some understanding between union and management when it comes to training. A training sup should not be working side by side with a trainee for an entire shift. However, sometimes it is beneficial for the trainee when that happens (especialy when training pre-loaders). Communication between union and management is key so everybody has the same expectations.

Everybody wants the same thing - a well-trained employee who will make everyone's job (union and management) easier. I also think that it is important for the union workers in the trainiee's area to take some responsibility for training as well - we all know of situations where the management trainer has never done the job that they are training. I would expect an experienced worker to show a new-hire a few tricks of the trade that will make their job easier.

local804 · 03-03-2007, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PETE'S NEPHEW

Everybody wants the same thing - a well-trained employee who will make everyone's job (union and management) easier. I also think that it is important for the union workers in the trainiee's area to take some responsibility for training as well - we all know of situations where the management trainer has never done the job that they are training. I would expect an experienced worker to show a new-hire a few tricks of the trade that will make their job easier.

If I could make a sugggestion to management here please.

1.Supervisor training
Please dont let the rookie drive with everyone watching in the center and pull the switcheroonie on the road. If you are driving,sheeting, and reading the map, the rookie will not learn much from running off packages.

Otherwise Petes nephew, agree totally.

jeremyfix · 03-03-2007, 01:28 PM

Is it me or are most of the part-time sups like 20 years old that when given the chance to train someone would rather show off and demonstrate that they can do an unload at 1500 pph or a preload at 200+ pph. What a joke.

trickpony1 · 03-03-2007, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremyfix

Is it me or are most of the part-time sups like 20 years old that when given the chance to train someone would rather show off and demonstrate that they can do an unload at 1500 pph or a preload at 200+ pph. What a joke.

Jeremy-
I don't think it's you.
I think it's the ego thing that is so pervasive in management.
They are, indeed, superheros!

tieguy · 03-03-2007, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trickpony1

Jeremy-
I don't think it's you.
I think it's the ego thing that is so pervasive in management.
They are, indeed, superheros!

I commend you for recognizing their superiority.

HazMatMan · 03-03-2007, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tieguy

Curious. How does a sup demonstrating a fast unload rate lead to missed pieces?

Read my post, or let me explain it as if it was happening to me. Ok sup is training someone to unload, sup is unloading super fast, either to show off, to brainwash the worker to think he needs to unload that fast, whatever the case, so the pkgs are coming out of the trailer too fast for me to sort them because I am not going to kill myself to get them all sorted, so you have missed pieces. Now the boss comes over to me to ask why am I missing all these pieces and I point right inside the trailer and say "talk to that idiot who's unloading, which is the training sup.. DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!!

wilberforce15 · 03-03-2007, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HazMatMan

Read my post, or let me explain it as if it was happening to me. Ok sup is training someone to unload, sup is unloading super fast, either to show off, to brainwash the worker to think he needs to unload that fast, whatever the case, so the pkgs are coming out of the trailer too fast for me to sort them because I am not going to kill myself to get them all sorted, so you have missed pieces. Now the boss comes over to me to ask why am I missing all these pieces and I point right inside the trailer and say "talk to that idiot who's unloading, which is the training sup.. DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!!

How could you possibly have trouble sorting 1400 pph? Especially if they do proper label-facing? MAR here is 1200, and it takes very little experience and middle-of-the-road effort to get to that.