May 10th Announcement .Pension

[moreluck]

The Caymans are British.....not the U.S.

[trickpony1]

Originally Posted by tieguy

I have family who travels for the government. They rape the taxpayer with the per diem they collect. Best hotels available etc. [/COLOR]

Did that recessive gene get passed along to you also?

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by trickpony1

Did that recessive gene get passed along to you also?

recessive or excessive?

[trickpony1]

Originally Posted by tieguy

recessive or excessive?

....actually, when it's manifested, as yours appears to be, it would be double recessive.

[The Zen Man]

"Rich plan, poor plan - 13 Jan 2006
Steven Brull
UPS's pension plan for nonunion employees outperforms its peers and runs a surplus, while many of the multiemployer plans for its unionized workers struggle. And Big Brown can't deliver a fix.

It's the best of times, it's the worst of times for pension holders of United Parcel Service of America.
In this tale of two pension plans, if the employees are among UPS's 125,000 nonunion workers, they're in fine shape. Big Brown's $10.5 billion in-house plan is one of the rare corporate schemes to be overfunded, boasting $110 in assets for every $100 in liabilities. Its portfolio returned 13.3 percent in 2004 -- the most recent year for which figures are available -- and an annualized 10.9 percent for the three years ended 2004. Those results handily best the 12.2 percent and 7 percent returns, respectively, for plans of the nation's 100 biggest corporations, according to Seattle-based Milliman Consultants."

SO WHY WOULD THEY KILL IT?

[truckinnaked]

Past results doesn't guarantee future performance.....plus Wall Street and the unknown cost of healthcare.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by trickpony1

....actually, when it's manifested, as yours appears to be, it would be double recessive.

Interesting point. Could you perhaps give us a clinical explanation of "double recessive" manifestation Dr. Freud. Perhaps you could also explain to us if this double recessive tendency of yours is what causes you to frequently fecally foul yourself, grab your genitals during in appropriate times and whether its the reason you litter the porch of your double wide with budwieser cans.

All the managers and supervisors sold their souls anyway. I hope you all get what you deserve. Take it with a smile we all know UPS can never be wrong!!

[dave_socal]

Originally Posted by tieguy

Could you perhaps give us a clinical explanation of "double recessive" manifestation Dr. Freud. ......., grab your genitals during in appropriate times and whether its the reason you litter the porch of your double wide with budwieser cans.

That's B-U-D-W-E-I-S-E-R but a genius like youself can't be bothered with not knowing how to spell the most common beer in the USA. Once again "Scoreboard" Trickpony2 Tieguy 0 Why? Well when your relaxing at home after a hard day of looking busy at work with the girls and your home sipping your favorite $2 buck chuck and you reach down between your legs and come up empty you know why your the queen of the cubicles. Funny either your at work posting this crap or you took another mental health day. ( I work nights this week)

[Cezanne]

Zen Man; good question: I have a summary annual report for the (UPS Retirement Plan) for management people from l992, it reads 66,907 participants with assets of 1.5 billion. If your figures are correct of 10.5 billion, it sure looks like alot of monetary contributions were put into this trust over the last 12 years, let alone the returns with interest? If the plan is that healthy and well over 100 percent vested why would they eliminate it?

If you can find out any information into the union side of the company's pension plan (UPS Pension Plan) for part timers for the most part and post it's assets it could clear up some unanswered questions.

[dumbsup]

They keep adding money every qtr.. It's a huge expense...

[trickpony1]

Originally Posted by tieguy

Interesting point. Could you perhaps give us a clinical explanation of "double recessive" manifestation Dr. Freud. Perhaps you could also explain to us if this double recessive tendency of yours is what causes you to frequently fecally foul yourself, grab your genitals during in appropriate times and whether its the reason you litter the porch of your double wide with budwieser cans.

Perhaps you were absent when your high school science instructor talked of Gregor Mendel, an Augustianian Monk and early geneticist who pioneered tracking of genetic traits.
Perhaps one evening as you're sitting on the porch of your double wide, surfing the net you can goggle his name.......provided, of course, you haven't drank your case of Pabst Blue Ribbon first.

[DiadDude]

Originally Posted by dumbsup

They keep adding money every qtr.. It's a huge expense...

Agreed! Just look at this year's annual report. There is something like $533 (places pinky at corner of mouth) million dollars of company contributions planned for this year.

And I don't believe that includes any of the cost to administer the plan.

[Cezanne]

You guys are not quite getting it, if the plan is well over 100 percent vested why is the company continuing to put in a half a billion dollars annually, they can technically quit contributing at any time. Just how much monetary contributions is required to provide for it's management employees and to what extent. The Health and Welfare benefit plan is a separate account and has no bearing on the retirement plan, presuming it is as well funded as it's pension counterpart. If it was hurting financially as most of the teamster plans currently I could see them eliminating the fund, but right now I fail to see the reasoning behind it. For all those vested in the UPS Retirement Plan, need not to worry, start studying the ERISA laws and see how well your benefits are protected even if they eliminate or change the plan's benefit formula. How much this has to do with the current teamster negotiations I guess we have to wait and see.

[bones]

Cezanne, I don't think I am near as informed as you with respect to laws governing pensions but I think there are a couple reasons UPS would want to eliminate the pension, 1) as someone stated earlier past performance is not a guarantee of future returns, there are all sorts of things that could occur that could negatively affect the pension plan for years to come not to mention the possibility of people consistently living into their 80's 90's or possibly later. This would have a drastic affect on the pension plan. 2) this is my worry and only mine as I have not heard it anywhere else but what happens if Teamster Pension plans (Central States for one) goes under? I am afraid before the government would step in they would look at UPS with an overfunded plan and ask UPS to transfer money. I am not sure this is legally an option but I don't see the government shelling out millions when UPS has money and has another pension plan that is 110% funded. Again this is just speculation on my part. 3) Like I believe someone stated earlier it has to be a huge savings to convert to a 401 match (additional 3% possibly) due to the fact many may not contribute the full 6% possible, also, this eliminates all of UPS liablity for future payouts which are subject to all sorts of risk (geopolitical, natural disasters, etc...) Just my thoughts, however, I think the possibility of a buyout are very slim, I think their will be changes but I don't think they will be better for us or offer any sort of immediate gain.

[SeniorGeek]

Originally Posted by The Zen Man

"Rich plan, poor plan - 13 Jan 2006
Steven Brull
UPS's pension plan for nonunion employees outperforms its peers and runs a surplus, while many of the multiemployer plans for its unionized workers struggle. And Big Brown can't deliver a fix.

It's the best of times, it's the worst of times for pension holders of United Parcel Service of America.
In this tale of two pension plans, if the employees are among UPS's 125,000 nonunion workers, they're in fine shape. Big Brown's $10.5 billion in-house plan is one of the rare corporate schemes to be overfunded, boasting $110 in assets for every $100 in liabilities. ...."

SO WHY WOULD THEY KILL IT?

For money? I am just guessing, but in the 1980s a lot of pension plans were liquidated to raid their surplus, until tax laws changed to discourage raiding overfunded pension funds. "But thanks to an accounting rule that is little known...there is a way to gain from the pension surplus. The rule provides that if investment returns on pension assets exceed the pension plans' current costs, a company can report the excess as a credit on its income statement. Voila: higher earnings."

The advantage of an overfunded plan can become an even larger advantage if liabilities can be decreased - by reducing benefits. Companies have found ERISA-compliant methods of converting to cash-balance plans "...which can reduce benefits for older employees who otherwise would have seen their pension credits build up rapidly in their last working years", even though ERISA is intended to prevent this sort of benefit reduction.

There is a way for companies to liquidate a pension plan and avoid most of the taxes and keep most of the excess funds, but this is usually a last-ditch effort to keep a company alive...
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/rfi/press/termination.htm

Another scheme involves merging an overfunded plan with an underfunded plan, to eliminate the penalties that come with an underfunded plan.

Keeping an overfunded plan can make good business sense. Merging has become more common, as companies try to avoid make-up payments on an underfunded plan.

In the end, it will be a business decision - nothing personal.

[BCFan]

Originally Posted by moreluck

Only 2 places are lower than N.H. in taxes and that's Alaska & DC.

dont forget texas tennessee and every retiree's dream state Florida!!!! all these states have no state income tax....there is at least one more that eludes me at this time....little help from the peanut gallery? BC

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by dave_socal

That's B-U-D-W-E-I-S-E-R but a genius like youself can't be bothered with not knowing how to spell the most common beer in the USA. Once again "Scoreboard" Trickpony2 Tieguy 0 Why? Well when your relaxing at home after a hard day of looking busy at work with the girls and your home sipping your favorite $2 buck chuck and you reach down between your legs and come up empty you know why your the queen of the cubicles. Funny either your at work posting this crap or you took another mental health day. ( I work nights this week)

If I spell it right you and trick would not know what I was talking about.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by trickpony1

Perhaps you were absent when your high school science instructor talked of Gregor Mendel, an Augustianian Monk and early geneticist who pioneered tracking of genetic traits.
Perhaps one evening as you're sitting on the porch of your double wide, surfing the net you can goggle his name.......provided, of course, you haven't drank your case of Pabst Blue Ribbon first.

I'm sorry I sip GM and I google. Goggle is for nit wits like yourself exploring their genetics to try to understand why you are so screwed up. Pick the sheeps wool out of your zipper before someone figures out you have been screwing the herd again.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by BCFan

dont forget texas tennessee and every retiree's dream state Florida!!!! all these states have no state income tax....there is at least one more that eludes me at this time....little help from the peanut gallery? BC

Pennsylvania though they get you on everything else

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by Brown and Down

All the managers and supervisors sold their souls anyway. I hope you all get what you deserve. Take it with a smile we all know UPS can never be wrong!!

I know I'm hoping I get what I deserve tommorrow.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by ihadit

GOOD! About time we get rid of all the dead wood.

I don't see them offering a buyout offer unless its very limited. Too many people in the 45 to 55 age group that would run for the door.

did you guys hear about the Total Rewards Survey.? Only for Non- Union Upsers!
It talks about 4% additional match to 401(K). freezing the current pension. That 4% comes whether or not you currently participate in 401k.

[moreluck]

Nevada?

You got to watch though, just because a state has low or no income tax it doesn't mean in every area of your taxable life. Some states slip it to you another way. Florida used to tax your portfolio every year.....don't know if that's still true.

[mountaingoat]

Good thing I live in Pennsylvania!