5 seeing habits

[tieguy]

[quote=browned out;194741]Anyhow he had 30 plus years in and retirement papers submitted. He probably figured 30+ years of being f__ked by Big Brown; he would throw a little back at em. Needless to say he was reinstated and then retired.

I'm sure glad you blocked out the "uck" So no one would be offended.I suppose a less graphic word would not have worked?

Center Managers do receive bonuses on how well their centers do in these Ketter audits.

Center managers do not get bonus they do get their jobs threatened and they do get demotions when their people do not know the information.

[UPS Lifer]

Tie
Where do these guys hear this crap about getting bonuses for passing audits? It still amazes me the disinformation that is spread around!!! One person says it and everyone else believes it! I do remember a division manager losing his division because it failed a Ketter audit. I can remember quite a few managers in the same boat.

I stood right along side one of the main auditors (while he was asking questions) and he was just looking to see if the person could verbalize the concept. He was never looking for a word for word answer. In fact if he thinks that the person who is being asked the question does not understand the concept ... he may probe for more detail. He is not looking for memorization ...he is looking for DOK or "Depth Of Knowledge".
Has this changed?

As a manager or supervisor of an operation - if you document all training and you personally train the folks that need the most help, you should never have to worry about failing an audit. Your motto should be "audit ready all the time". Now I know this sounds simple...I know it isn't!. I was a manager 15 YEARS before I figured it out!! I would always burn the midnight oil when I suspected an audit was coming! I finally put checks & balances in place to make sure that I would pass any audit that came. Once I did that my anxiety level diminished to about 20% of what it was before.

[trouble maker]

Originally Posted by stopcomplete

any body been told they are subject to disciplinary action if that cant recite the 5 seeing habits,ten point commentary,8 steps to lift/lower,5 steps to avoid slip/fall injuries and 6 rules of backing.has to be 100 percent word for word and in order in front of bm and safety people. been hearing this a lot lately in our bulding.

Just be polite when asked. If you don't know them all, don't worry about it. No disciplinary action can be taken against you.

[wyobill]

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE][quote=tieguy;267497]

Originally Posted by browned out

Anyhow he had 30 plus years in and retirement papers submitted. He probably figured 30+ years of being f__ked by Big Brown; he would throw a little back at em. Needless to say he was reinstated and then retired.

I'm sure glad you blocked out the "uck" So no one would be offended.I suppose a less graphic word would not have worked?

Center Managers do receive bonuses on how well their centers do in these Ketter audits.

Center managers do not get bonus they do get their jobs threatened and they do get demotions when their people do not know the information.

They also get sent down the road as our CM did. He had 25 yrs with UPS. Brown also sent another 25+ year CM packing after failing a
saftey audit. Why dont they just fire all of us.

Originally Posted by local804

They can make you read whatever the hell they want but we still
1. Have to work in 120 degree package cars in the middle of the summer and keep bulk head door closed at all times.
2. List oversize over weight and improper packages.
3. Get in and out of the truck 250 plus times wearing down your joints while carrying packages.2 foot steps on p1000 lol
4. Drive in zero degree weather and work in a foot of snow( but they will pull you in the building for safety reasons at 7pm((no exceptions) lol
5. Have you ever seen all the diesel fumes when everyone leaves the bldg?
(oh wait, they stagger the start times) lol
6. Icestorm - no big deal, they supply iceshoes lol what about the truck?
I could go on but its time to hit the showers.

IF you do not like it QUIT.....save your life and let those of us around you who are strong enough to move ahead do so.........stop clogging up the seniority list!

[brownmonster]

If the company spent 10 percent of the time and effort on customer service that they waste on useless safety questions we wouldn't be getting our butts kicked more and more by the competition. Safety is pounded down our throats so much that nobody is even listening. We are the only trucking company in America with vehicles without power steering. Put your money where your mouth is or shut the hell up. Games,contests, audits and threats do not make the the boxes smaller, lighter or the pace slower. Face the facts. Stop talking about safety and and make the job safer. Take more time away and put in more pathetic technology and keep increasing the workload. That's my rant. Done BM

[satellitedriver]

Originally Posted by bestpackagecar

WELL HELLO TO ALL UPSers . ANYBODY ELSE HERE FROM IRELAND???

Not I, but my grandmother was born there.
Waterville, 1893.
PAX

[coldworld]

Originally Posted by brownmonster

If the company spent 10 percent of the time and effort on customer service that they waste on useless safety questions we wouldn't be getting our butts kicked more and more by the competition. Safety is pounded down our throats so much that nobody is even listening. We are the only trucking company in America with vehicles without power steering. Put your money where your mouth is or shut the hell up. Games,contests, audits and threats do not make the the boxes smaller, lighter or the pace slower. Face the facts. Stop talking about safety and and make the job safer. Take more time away and put in more pathetic technology and keep increasing the workload. That's my rant. Done BM

absolutely right. I guess management never received the memo that said, "happy drivers are more productive drivers." If ups could get the cocky, ego, hardass, " im going to fire you" attitude to go somewhere else, this company would be unstopable.This is one of the hardest companies to work for on america, across the board, across all job functions, maybe its time to try something new, its been 100 years, lets try something new....positive employee relations for both mgt and hourly, hey, thats an idea!

[brownnblue]

Originally Posted by MR Experience

IF you do not like it QUIT.....save your life and let those of us around you who are strong enough to move ahead do so.........stop clogging up the seniority list!

Translation: I don't have the people skills to respond to your complaints. Perhaps if I put the quit line on the table, it will strike a basic nerve and he will go away.

[brownnblue]

Originally Posted by tieguy

You have to admit if you break down it is information that is helpfull to driving and working safely?

Yes, it is. But I don't think that is the problem. The issue is how this information is passed down to the driver. Does anyone honestly think that the fear & intimidation approach (learn it or else) is going to give a driver the conceptual skills from said information. Isn't that the goal. The "let's go over at a PCM" approach is a failure also. To try to pass all of this information along at this time when the driver's thoughts are on all of the problems of the day ahead is not productive.

Why can't the drivers have a eight hour day devoted just to a classroom environment to explain this information and other aspects of the company? With a real teacher, not a center manager. Good for morale, good for learning driving and company concepts, good for something else better than this rote memorization.

[alexfo7o]

Originally Posted by Hangingon

So it doesn't matter if you've never been involved in an avoidable accident, nor had an injury, but you are obviously an unsafe employee and should be disciplined and maybe fired because you can't recite their pablum by rote with all footnotes?

Actually I disagree: Because i can't do that. However I do use them from my own lifting and lowering and walking perspective I do try to do it how they say..

[soberups]

Given time and an adequate supply of crackers, you can train a parakeet to recite the 10 point commentary. In UPS's eyes, that parakeet is now a safe driver. In the real world, maybe not. Perhaps we should just train some parakeets to recite the commentary for the Keter auditors. It would be a win/win for everyone...the "Safety Committee" could make easy money feeding the parakeets, the parakeets would get fat and happy, the Keter auditors would get to mark "100%" on their clipboards, and those of us who are actually going out in the real world and getting the packages delivered would be spared the irritation of having to continually recite stupid acronyms in exchange for muffins.

[DS]

Originally Posted by soberups

Given time and an adequate supply of crackers, you can train a parakeet to recite the 10 point commentary. In UPS's eyes, that parakeet is now a safe driver. In the real world, maybe not. Perhaps we should just train some parakeets to recite the commentary for the Keter auditors. It would be a win/win for everyone...the "Safety Committee" could make easy money feeding the parakeets, the parakeets would get fat and happy, the Keter auditors would get to mark "100%" on their clipboards, and those of us who are actually going out in the real world and getting the packages delivered would be spared the irritation of having to continually recite stupid acronyms in exchange for muffins.

YOU GET MUFFINS!
geez all we get is coffee and dounuts...
good points all sober,but what if you got fired for not knowing them?
sure you may get your job back but at what cost? its easier to learn them.parakeets may be a bad analogy,they look left right left all the time.
I guess they figure you will retain most of it and it will decrease accidents.If they push us on it,I will memorize it.very creative post though

[tourists24]

Originally Posted by DS

YOU GET MUFFINS!
geez all we get is coffee and dounuts...

you get donuts....? all we get are "zero" candy bars for zero accidents

[over10.5]

Our on road supervisors were passing out " Safety by choice not by chance" papers that we were to sign. Promising that we would learn word for word 5 seeing habbits, 10 point commentary, 8 keys for lifting and lowering. I didnt sign mine. Told my supervisor that I wanted to talk with my union stewart before signing the paper. He said I was being childish and wrote on my rts ( refused to sign) This is our management for you. Havent heard a word yet.. Union steward said dont worry about it. Im against it.. waste of my time. After a long day at work Im not going to go home and study .. Come ride with me see my habbits.

[soberups]

Originally Posted by DS

YOU GET MUFFINS!
geez all we get is coffee and dounuts...
good points all sober,but what if you got fired for not knowing them?
sure you may get your job back but at what cost? its easier to learn them.parakeets may be a bad analogy,they look left right left all the time.
I guess they figure you will retain most of it and it will decrease accidents.If they push us on it,I will memorize it.very creative post though

Nobody is going to get fired for not reciting a commentary. Nowhere in the contract does it state that rote memorization of buzzwords is a condition of employment. Any supervisor that makes such a statement is ignorant of the contract and is probably under pressure from his superiors to "look good" for some impending audit. Fear makes otherwise good people say and do stupid things.

[soberups]

Originally Posted by over10.5

Our on road supervisors were passing out " Safety by choice not by chance" papers that we were to sign. Promising that we would learn word for word 5 seeing habbits, 10 point commentary, 8 keys for lifting and lowering.

We had the same thing going on here...I told my sup that I would be more than happy to sign it just as soon as UPS signed an agreement to retrofit all older package cars with 3 point seat belts and power steering. Like the slogan says..."safety by choice, not by chance." For some reason, my sup didnt seem very enthusiastic about my idea.

[RockdaleEddie]

Originally Posted by PAS'd out

I can tell you the 5 seing habits because that was hammered into us during orientation. The 10 point commentary list was not taught as such when I was hired in the mid 80's. We were taught the elements of it and I know them all, but I cannot categorize them as part of a list, and I really do not care. What I care about is incorporating those elements into my driving, so I can drive as safely as possible during my day.

Management measures themselves in part as to what they can recite verbatim, not by actually doing physical work.

It is the same as everything else at this place the past few years. It is not about being safe, it is about being able to recite words. It is not about providing service, it is all about what the reports say about providing service.

How is that talking on a conference call is work for them, but if we are not out humping packages anything else is not for us?

God bless 'em if they want to send me home for not being able to recite verbatim all that. Pay me to study that wordage as part of my day and I will regurgitate it for them.

It sucks having a Manager like I have. He makes me want to be abe to recite the smoke an mirror safety game they play because I know it comes back to him if I dont. I just leave and pretend Im on the phone when they show up.

[RockdaleEddie]

[quote=tieguy;267497]

Originally Posted by browned out

Anyhow he had 30 plus years in and retirement papers submitted. He probably figured 30+ years of being f__ked by Big Brown; he would throw a little back at em. Needless to say he was reinstated and then retired.

I'm sure glad you blocked out the "uck" So no one would be offended.I suppose a less graphic word would not have worked?

Center Managers do receive bonuses on how well their centers do in these Ketter audits.

Center managers do not get bonus they do get their jobs threatened and they do get demotions when their people do not know the information.

thats a lie!

[UPS Lifer]

Originally Posted by soberups

Given time and an adequate supply of crackers, you can train a parakeet to recite the 10 point commentary. In UPS's eyes, that parakeet is now a safe driver. In the real world, maybe not. Perhaps we should just train some parakeets to recite the commentary for the Keter auditors. It would be a win/win for everyone...the "Safety Committee" could make easy money feeding the parakeets, the parakeets would get fat and happy, the Keter auditors would get to mark "100%" on their clipboards, and those of us who are actually going out in the real world and getting the packages delivered would be spared the irritation of having to continually recite stupid acronyms in exchange for muffins.

Point of clarification.... just because you can recite the 10 Point Commentary or any of the other safety m