5 seeing habits

[teamsterdan]

having served in the army memorizing "stupid " was a way of life.......have to admit for a while I did like many of the post's here, refused to sign stuff, memeroize crap etc......I've since changed my technique and now can quote chapter and verse of specific articles of the contract, and preface my verbal statements to mgt. and auditors when asked w/ "although I am not obligated to do this....." I then move to the position of "parade rest" and recite them as axed............I also only address mgt. as needed, and respond to the majority of their questions w/ yes boss, no boss, and I'll get rite to that boss..........they basically leave me alone now........

[UPS Lifer]

Originally Posted by soberups

It (the commentary) is not designed to help the driver stay injury and accident free. It is designed...to help UPS pass an audit. Nothing more, nothing less.
A company that truly cared about the safety of its drivers...would not make a business decision to dispatch them in vehicles from which 3-point seat belts and power steering had been removed to save money.
I'm simply asking for some truth in advertising here. Pretending to "care" about my safety thru word games, acronyms and asessments is quite frankly an insult to my intelligence, and I dont take well to that. I can accept the fact that UPS does not value my life enough to retrofit a vehicle with a 3 point belt. What I CANT accept...is when they try to pretend otherwise.

Soberups! Nobody is insulting your intelligence! the 10 Point Commentary was originally designed for a supervisor to be able to train a driver and cover everything in a step by step fashion. It was actually part of a supervisor's training. So, you now have the benefit of being able to learn the info that was designed to train a driver in the first place!!! Imagine that!

I am telling you this from experience. I was an OR Supv back in 1984-85. I was required to learn the commentary so that I could train a driver. The company has passed the info on to you directly. A lot of the stuff I learned as a supervisor was never taught to me as a driver. It kind of pissed me off!
I would have been a better driver!

As for the 3 point harness.... I would agree with you. This is something that will evolve and eventually all package cars will have them. You may be be absolutely correct in your assumption that it has to do with money.
But your intelligence should also tell you that if the company has a severely injured (or worse) driver, there is a huge cost associated with that.

So ... get it right! Let there be no mistake......The company does care about your safety because your safe driving or lack of it will cost the company big money in the long run.

Years ago - supervisors did not have a jump seat to sit in.... we just went through the window if there was an accident. It wasn't until the late 1980's that jump seat frames were added. At least you have a seat belt!!!! LOL! They finally added jump seats to all vehicles.

Sometimes you make assumptions and post like you know it to be a fact....
Be careful... just because you don't have a safety belt that you think you should have doesn't mean nobody cares about your safety. I certainly do!

Also - when you and other posters start questioning how the money is being spent remember that you have a pretty solid job because the company is making money. The airlines are not in the same shape are they? At one point they had a pretty solid job also! Not anymore....

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.... and if you don't like the food find another chef that cooks the type of food you like.

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

I feel much safer now. Warm and fuzzy too.

[soberups]

Originally Posted by UPS Lifer

As for the 3 point harness.... I would agree with you. This is something that will evolve and eventually all package cars will have them. You may be be absolutely correct in your assumption that it has to do with money.

We have p-1000 135-xxx series built in 1995 that had the 3-point belt deleted. Identical 136-numbered cars of 1996 vintage do have the 3-point belt...and I believe that this was the year that 3-point belts became mandatory per the DOT.
Some of these vehicles will remain in service for at least 20 more years. The fact that UPS refuses to retrofit them says a lot more about its "commitment to safety" than any commentary or acronym ever will.

[soberups]

Originally Posted by UPS Lifer

But your intelligence should also tell you that if the company has a severely injured (or worse) driver, there is a huge cost associated with that.

A high-seniority driver who is horribly injured...or worse...in a head-on collision can be replaced with a younger driver making $10 an hour less. The huge cost of any medical expenses will be covered by UPS's insurance, or the insurance of the driver who hit him. Either way, UPS is $$ ahead of the game.

[soberups]

Originally Posted by UPS Lifer

Years ago - supervisors did not have a jump seat to sit in.... we just went through the window if there was an accident. It wasn't until the late 1980's that jump seat frames were added. At least you have a seat belt!!!! LOL! They finally added jump seats to all vehicles.

Which should speak volumes about how much the company values its own management people.
Jump seats were not installed here in Oregon until about 1991, when a state law was passed mandating seat belt use. Prior to that, the life of the pasenger was simply not deemed to be worthy of the expense of a jump seat.
When it comes to safety, UPS's only concern is bare minimum compliance with the law to shield itself from legal liability. It is the threat of OSHA fines that has triggered the Keter audits, not any genuine concern for its people.
I can accept that. Its part of the reality of working for UPS. You dont give a damn about my well being, and thats OK. Just stop trying to pretend that you do by playing silly word games and handing out cookies. I am an adult, please treat me like one.

[soberups]

Originally Posted by UPS Lifer

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.... and if you don't like the food find another chef that cooks the type of food you like.

I will stop biting when you guys stop trying to cram bullshiite down my throat.

[soberups]

Originally Posted by UPS Lifer

Be careful... just because you don't have a safety belt that you think you should have doesn't mean nobody cares about your safety. I certainly do!

I believe you. Unfortunately, your "concern" isnt going to keep my head from going through the windshield. Neither will a 100% score on the next Keter audit.

[UPS Lifer]

Originally Posted by soberups

I believe you. Unfortunately, your "concern" isnt going to keep my head from going through the windshield. Neither will a 100% score on the next Keter audit.

But, if you drive safely, using all the tools and methods you have learned over the years you should never have to worry about going through a windshield.

Don't you ever wonder how all the drivers did it before you? There was a time there was no seat belt in the vehicle. How did we manage back then?

[UPS Lifer]

Originally Posted by soberups

A high-seniority driver who is horribly injured...or worse...in a head-on collision can be replaced with a younger driver making $10 an hour less. The huge cost of any medical expenses will be covered by UPS's insurance, or the insurance of the driver who hit him. Either way, UPS is $$ ahead of the game.

Listen to what you are saying!! Are you really this cynical?

What I hear you saying is that UPS would hope that if a serious injury occurs the company would rather it be a senior driver to save money. WOW!

I am sorry - but a comment like this is extremely distasteful. I cannot respect any poster who slanders UPS by making unsubstantiated claims. I have seen this now in a couple of recent threads... maybe it has been there all along and I haven't noticed.

[rod]

Originally Posted by UPS Lifer

Don't you ever wonder how all the drivers did it before you? There was a time there was no seat belt in the vehicle. How did we manage back then?

We hung on for dear life but it was easier staying alert driving 70 mph with the door open and no seat belt. Those were interesting times. I don't know about anyone else but I should have been thrown out several times

[browniehound]

Sober, I like your opinion that knowing these safety rules verbatim will not necessarily make you a safe employee. You can have the sharpest mind in the world and can learn this stuff in an hour, yet at the same time be a very bad driver.

I'm not saying the 5 seeing habits don't make you a better driver, they do. I really believe if you practice them you can protect yourself from most of the idiots on the road.

I think UPS is taking the wrong approach by wanting us to memorize the rules in lieu of actually UNDERSTANDING them. The focus is on being able to recite them when the focus should be on practicing them. Instead of having me recite the seeing habits on my annual ride, I think we should discuss how I'm using them in the specific driving situation. This way, management is actually teaching us something.

I agree with you UPSLifer that UPS cares about the safety of its employees. UPS is in business to make a profit. Injuries and accidents erode our profits. After labor and fuel, I'm sure injuries and accidents are up there in the 'cost' column. Naturally UPS will do whatever they can to minimize this cost. I believe there is nothing wrong with this, its part of our great system of capitalism.

However, to steal a phrase from Sober, don't insult my intelligence by claiming you care about my well being. You don't. If I break my ankle walking down a steep driveway that is iced over do you care about my pain? When I call you, what is the first thought that enters your mind as a center manager? I know what it is, its 'man this is going to screw up my safety picture' and 'this is going to cost us tens of thousands of dollars'.

There is nothing wrong with this thinking in my opinion. This is a business and the goal of a business is to make money. Where I have a problem is when you actually claim that you care about me personaly. I've heard at a PCM from a CM that he cares about the cost involved and he also cared about us. Save it.

[dilligaf]

Originally Posted by browniehound

Sober, I like your opinion that knowing these safety rules verbatim will not necessarily make you a safe employee. You can have the sharpest mind in the world and can learn this stuff in an hour, yet at the same time be a very bad driver.

I'm not saying the 5 seeing habits don't make you a better driver, they do. I really believe if you practice them you can protect yourself from most of the idiots on the road.

I think UPS is taking the wrong approach by wanting us to memorize the rules in lieu of actually UNDERSTANDING them. The focus is on being able to recite them when the focus should be on practicing them. Instead of having me recite the seeing habits on my annual ride, I think we should discuss how I'm using them in the specific driving situation. This way, management is actually teaching us something.

I agree with you UPSLifer that UPS cares about the safety of its employees. UPS is in business to make a profit. Injuries and accidents erode our profits. After labor and fuel, I'm sure injuries and accidents are up there in the 'cost' column. Naturally UPS will do whatever they can to minimize this cost. I believe there is nothing wrong with this, its part of our great system of capitalism.

However, to steal a phrase from Sober, don't insult my intelligence by claiming you care about my well being. You don't. If I break my ankle walking down a steep driveway that is iced over do you care about my pain? When I call you, what is the first thought that enters your mind as a center manager? I know what it is, its 'man this is going to screw up my safety picture' and 'this is going to cost us tens of thousands of dollars'.

There is nothing wrong with this thinking in my opinion. This is a business and the goal of a business is to make money. Where I have a problem is when you actually claim that you care about me personaly. I've heard at a PCM from a CM that he cares about the cost involved and he also cared about us. Save it.

Brownie, in all of the pcm's that I have been at where accidents are talked about not once, to the best of my knowledge, has the first comment been 'the driver is ok'. It's always 'we had another accident with property damage', 'avoidable', 'customers driveway' etc, etc, etc.
Lifer and Sober, both make very good points and both (IMHO) lean to one wing or the other. It stands to reason. (Not a ding!)

I think you brought both sides nicely together.

[browniehound]

I actually would like to discuss the first seeing habit, if I may.

Aim High In Steering

How do you do it?: Imaginary Target. Baseball. Dart Board.

Whats it do for you?: Keeps car centered in travel lane. Smooth stops and turns.

Key Phrase: "Find a safe path well ahead"

I recently answered a question incorectly about this rule. It was:

Which of the five seeing habits apply to backing? I circled all of them except "Aim High In Steering" According to UPS, the correct answer is all of them.

I want to know how you are supposed to aim high in steering when backing to a dock? This is where I argue the validity of memorizing these rules. I know how to aim high when driving. I like it and use it. It helps me. It does not help me when backing. Can we follow the habit line for line and ask how it applies?

Imaginary target? I don't want to focused on an imaginary baseball or dartboard (whatever that means???) when I'm backing the vehicle. I want to clear the area and move my eyes between each mirror and the camera.

The seeing habit will "keep your car centered" but when backing, I don't want to be looking down the road, I want to be checking the rear, no?

How am I supposed to "Find a safe path well ahead" when I want to back the vehicle about 25 feet???

That is my argument. I would like to hear how aim high applies to backing.

Thank YOU.

[UPS Lifer]

Originally Posted by browniehound

Sober, I like your opinion that knowing these safety rules verbatim will not necessarily make you a safe employee. You can have the sharpest mind in the world and can learn this stuff in an hour, yet at the same time be a very bad driver.

I'm not saying the 5 seeing habits don't make you a better driver, they do. I really believe if you practice them you can protect yourself from most of the idiots on the road.

I think UPS is taking the wrong approach by wanting us to memorize the rules in lieu of actually UNDERSTANDING them. The focus is on being able to recite them when the focus should be on practicing them. Instead of having me recite the seeing habits on my annual ride, I think we should discuss how I'm using them in the specific driving situation. This way, management is actually teaching us something.

I agree with you UPSLifer that UPS cares about the safety of its employees. UPS is in business to make a profit. Injuries and accidents erode our profits. After labor and fuel, I'm sure injuries and accidents are up there in the 'cost' column. Naturally UPS will do whatever they can to minimize this cost. I believe there is nothing wrong with this, its part of our great system of capitalism.

However, to steal a phrase from Sober, don't insult my intelligence by claiming you care about my well being. You don't. If I break my ankle walking down a steep driveway that is iced over do you care about my pain? When I call you, what is the first thought that enters your mind as a center manager? I know what it is, its 'man this is going to screw up my safety picture' and 'this is going to cost us tens of thousands of dollars'.

There is nothing wrong with this thinking in my opinion. This is a business and the goal of a business is to make money. Where I have a problem is when you actually claim that you care about me personaly. I've heard at a PCM from a CM that he cares about the cost involved and he also cared about us. Save it.

As I was reading your post, you said it more eloquently than I - I also agree with your comment about when you call in and there is an injury and accident particularly when I was a new manager.

As you become more experienced you tend to just know what to do and you gear more on the individual and their needs.

Also - I was going to ask you what the explanation was for the #1 Aim High... I go along with you - I don't buy it unless you equate Aiming High with planning ahead. You can make an argument for that... meaning you would be thinking far enough ahead to back first or not at all.

[browniehound]

Originally Posted by UPS Lifer

As I was reading your post, you said it more eloquently than I - I also agree with your comment about when you call in and there is an injury and accident particularly when I was a new manager.

As you become more experienced you tend to just know what to do and you gear more on the individual and their needs.

Also - I was going to ask you what the explanation was for the #1 Aim High... I go along with you - I don't buy it unless you equate Aiming High with planning ahead. You can make an argument for that... meaning you would be thinking far enough ahead to back first or not at all.

UPSLifer, thanks for the kind words. When I asked about me being wrong in not choosing Aim High In Steering, I was told its the same concept even when backing. I still don't agree and can't comprehend how to apply it to backing.

I brought it in up in response to your post with the hope you could shed some light on the topic. I'm not sure what you do at UPS, but I gather you have been a manger for many years. Can you ask people 'in the know' at your center for a suitable explination? If you don't mind, I would love to learn more about it. If you're too busy or just don't care Lifer, I understand. Thanks in advance,

Brownie

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by UPS Lifer

As I was reading your post, you said it more eloquently than I - I also agree with your comment about when you call in and there is an injury and accident particularly when I was a new manager.

As you become more experienced you tend to just know what to do and you gear more on the individual and their needs.

Also - I was going to ask you what the explanation was for the #1 Aim High... I go along with you - I don't buy it unless you equate Aiming High with planning ahead. You can make an argument for that... meaning you would be thinking far enough ahead to back first or not at all.

Hmmm, that's quite a twist there Lifer. Nice try, but "keep your eyes moving" or " get the big picture" would fit that analogy better than "Aim high..."

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by browniehound

Imaginary target? I don't want to focused on an imaginary baseball or dartboard (whatever that means???)

Are you serious ?