new drivers - Brown Cafe

rebel · 06-13-2007, 08:02 PM

We had a young guy who was disquailified at driving school this past week. My CM says new drivers are supposed to be able to say the 5 keys to space and visability and the 10 point commentary. He is very disappointed. There are very few drivers in my center that are 100% on this. This guy was 100% on the 10 point but made a mistake on the 5 keys. Is there anything that can be done or has he just missed out? I dont think this if fair to the kid. Anyone recently been to a driving school?

toonertoo · 06-13-2007, 09:28 PM

We have one I know well, he just started today, after his school, Ill ask him and report back. Ive never heard about that happening.

fredly00 · 06-13-2007, 10:12 PM

When I went to school 5pt had to be perfect(the first day of class)
, the 10 point you just had to demonstrate each one, and what it did.

We had a couple people who didn't quite get the 5pt, but were given
extra instruction, and were able to pass the test by the end of the day.

spitt2000 · 06-14-2007, 05:14 AM

They have to be perfect. We had 4 or 5 sent home the first 30 minutes...

1BrownClown · 06-14-2007, 05:19 AM

Finished Driving school in Feb. Had to memorized 5pt and 10 pt. word for word by last day of school. All this for p/t Sat Air Driving?!

RozUPS · 06-14-2007, 05:28 AM

Is it possible to get this info? I'm going to driving school soon.

JustTired · 06-14-2007, 07:10 AM

When I started (stone age), you didn't have to memorize any of those things (although the "all good kids like milk" will stick with me forever).

This is just a way to "weed out" the people they know will be a pain in their side. If they want you to become a driver, they will help you get through it. If they don't, tough luck buddy. Of course, this is just my opinion. Others mileage may vary.

1989 · 06-14-2007, 07:41 AM

All I had to remember was "All Good Kids Like Milk" (15 or so years ago) They want all drivers in my center (old and new)to know the 10 pt. word for word. The only driver I know who can state them word for word is a 20 year driver who has about 10 accidents in 3 years. He has spent about a week off road (total) doing that safety stuff...He is still getting in accidents.

Leragie · 06-14-2007, 10:38 AM

I went to school a little over two months ago and you had to memorize it word for word. We even had to get all of the punctuations correct. There were 6 people who didn't pass, but they were given the chance to take it a second time, but it had to be done within the hour. I'm not sure if anybody failed it the second time because I was done and I had a 4 hour drive to get back home, so I took off. But, we were told at the beginning of class that you couldn't retake the class for 6 months if you failed, and you had to wait 2 years if you decided to pull yourself from the class. So, if its the same everywhere, then I guess your friend has to wait 6 months. I am still tested every once in a while at my center, but it doesn't have to be perfect anymore.

BCFan · 06-14-2007, 11:55 AM

:confused1What the heck is a 10 pt thingee? I sure hope they dont want me to do that cause I got CRS (can't remember *****) and I would study and study and study , ON THE CLOCK, and still be unable to recite so its back to studing again ON THE CLOCK , I wonder if they will fire me if I cant learn that crap:confused1 BC (not big chicks)

brownnblue · 06-14-2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCFan

:confused1What the heck is a 10 pt thingee? I sure hope they dont want me to do that cause I got CRS (can't remember *****) and I would study and study and study , ON THE CLOCK, and still be unable to recite so its back to studing again ON THE CLOCK , I wonder if they will fire me if I cant learn that crap:confused1 BC (not big chicks)

I think this post is very interesting. Our "on the clock" training for knowing the five seeing habits, the 10 point commentary, the keys to lifting & lowering, the keys to backing, and five safe habits of walking art "taught" to us by means of a) a quick PCM along with other aspects and commentary of the week's events and b) a text message around noon.

Not only are we supposed to know this stuff, but we are supposed to glean this information from a quick talk before we have to go out to a ten hour day, and a message sandwiched between OCAs.

And as 1989 correctly pointed out, the fact that this stuff is memorized is by no means a guarantee that a driver will be accident free.

If this stuff is so important, why can't drivers have a classroom training day every once in a while? Not only for driving safety, but for all other aspects of the company as well. A quick mention in the morning disguised as training tells me that management wants the drivers to know this stuff while putting minimal effort into teaching it.

big_arrow_up · 06-14-2007, 04:07 PM

It is rediculous that there are people out there that are that anal about the punctuation and being word for word for the 10 point commentary or any of the other parts of the class. The purpose of the class should be to make the drivers understand the material. Not pass an Advanced English Composition Course. I realize that "attention to detail" is a must but I'd rather have a driver be able to explain to me what "Stay back and see it all" means rather than be able to punctuate the sentence perfectly. I mean...what's more important? Knowing that allowing yourself more room between the next vehicle allows you to see farther ahead or being able to punctuate the sentence perfectly? Man, I'm glad they weren't that stict when I went through the class. The people teaching our class were more concerned with everyone grasping the concept of each phrase. Not how we were spelling them.

DS · 06-14-2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RozUPS

Is it possible to get this info? I'm going to driving school soon.

Its classified information.UPS will not release it to
the public because then everyone would drive safe.
If you are currently a upser go to upsers.com and
click on upsdrivers saftey tips calendar under health
and saftey...its all there

RozUPS · 06-15-2007, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DS

Its classified information.UPS will not release it to
the public because then everyone would drive safe.
If you are currently a upser go to upsers.com and
click on upsdrivers saftey tips calendar under health
and saftey...its all there

Thanks for the heads up. Found out from another Sat Driver that here in Philly, they are more interested in mastering the diad than remembering the 5 and 10 pt.

covemaster · 06-15-2007, 08:03 AM

if you don't know the 10 pt prayer,and it's 8;45 am and your rt is slammed and sitting there,they got no one to do it, will they send you home or let it slide that day???

lovetokayak · 06-15-2007, 08:17 AM

I just got back from driving school this week. We were told to memorize the 5 seeing habits word for word. We couldn't change one word. They said the point of memorizing so precisely is that this way it is more efficient and will be easier for us to remember while driving. The 10 point commentary we had to know the "titles" word for word, but we could use our own words to explain it. During driving test, we were told to drive, create our own situations in order to explain the 10 points, once done while still driving we had to recite the 5 seeing habits. By the end of the class, there were only 2 of us (myself and another driver) that passed the class.

RozUPS · 06-15-2007, 11:04 AM

I found the five seeing habits on UPSers.com but did not find the 10 pt.. What is the correct ups term for this?

scratch · 06-15-2007, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RozUPS

I found the five seeing habits on UPSers.com but did not find the 10 pt.. What is the correct ups term for this?

I have a little "cheat sheet" that just calls them "Ten Point Commentary". I'm glad I don't have to memorize them, thats too much stuff. It just looks like an expanded version of "Space and Visibility" to me, also known as the "Five Seeing Habits", or "All Good Kids Love Milk".

JustTired · 06-15-2007, 02:03 PM

Again.........

Is knowing that stuff "word for word" going to make you a better driver? I don't think so.

It's just another layer of crap they can use to disqualify anyone they don't want to see driving. Whether it's a personality conflict or not wanting to lose you from your present position, or whatever reason.

It's good to know all of that stuff and practicing it will make you a better driver, but the only people that should have to know it "word for word" are the driver sups. So either there is an alternative motive or the company is becoming more anal than ever.

Channahon · 06-15-2007, 06:39 PM

It's just part of the Ketter audit that someone in Corporate Health and Safety agreed to have on the audit. IMO - good information - know the basics. To memorize word for word, nobody in Corporate Health and Safety can do that.

Every year, Ketter continues to add to the audits, to justify their jobs. Granted, at one time there was a need for Ketter to get UPS back on track with Health and Safety, but enough is enough.

To disqualify drivers because they cannot memorize word for word, but yet understand the concepts, is absurd.

rebel · 06-15-2007, 08:32 PM

I'm sure we are missing out on what could be some very productive drivers. The 10 point and 5 keys are things we do every day but to have to memorize word for word what some person thinks is a great idea is just crazy. This kid knew it just didnt get it word for word. He is a very hard worker and is commited to the company. Things like this is what gives people bad attitudes. Thanks again UPS.

GuyinBrown · 06-15-2007, 10:33 PM

Sure glad I started driving back when UPS was worried about more important things... Like being able to drive a truck that has a manual transmission. Maybe they should let the word for word memorization slide and focus on something else. We have a trainee on the road that can barely get it in gear and stalls the truck on the slightest incline. Last year we had one that couldn't even get the truck off the boxline. What happened to road tests?

RockyRogue · 06-16-2007, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyinBrown

Last year we had one that couldn't even get the truck off the boxline. What happened to road tests?

LOL...I saw a road test group out the other day. The trainer or on-road in the package car's jumpseat was talking to the trainee/driver and distracted the driver. I thought the package car and the vehicle I was in came faaaar too close! -Rocky

JustTired · 06-16-2007, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Channahon

It's just part of the Ketter audit that someone in Corporate Health and Safety agreed to have on the audit.

I know what a Ketter audit is...... but who are these people and what makes them so high and mighty. They probably couldn't deliver a pkg if you pulled up to the front of the house and pointed to the front door. Maybe we should ask them a bunch of useless questions when they come around. Like........

1. Who were the founders of UPS?

2. What was the first vehicle used by the company?

3. What do you do with all the money you're overpaid to ask stupid questions and demand "word for word" answers to?

4. Would you please go up and grab that "smoking , leaking pkg" on the belt?

End of interogation.......

upsdude · 06-16-2007, 06:31 AM

Ten point commentary, 5 seeing/driving habits, lifting and lowering keys, yada yada yada. Bottom line, drivers are still having accidents, but they can memorize the commentary and pass the online testing. Hey UPS, maybe you’re missing something here. Maybe you need to focus on “how to” as opposed to “what are”.

Hey Mikey, how about getting IE on that right away.