Layoffs in I.S.

[705red]

Originally Posted by ImpactedTSG

First off, that was not me that said that about missing a beat. Why don't you read back through and you would see that MIPMASTER said that?

Second, I've been out of UPS for over a year, so it's not me that is causing customers to be lost. I am working as a network engineer in a totally differerent industry than the shipping industry. I do know my stuff. Believe me, I can drive a truck and walk a box up to a door. Can you tell me what this means?

interface Ethernet0/0
ip address 69.69.69.69 255.255.255.0
full-duplex
!
interface Serial0/0
ip address 69.69.69.68 255.255.255.0
no ip unreachables
no ip proxy-arp
no fair-queue
no cdp enable
!
interface Serial0/1
no ip address
ip nat inside
shutdown

*those are fake IPs so don't try to hack them

There you go again latte boy, you think its about driving a truck and walking a box to the house, beleive me its alot more than that. Are you allowed to wear pants to work or are skirts mandatory?

To answer your question thats a website www.computerguysgonewild.com

[Deeohem]

Random thoughts....

I can see both ways with the quality of what we see coming out of IS on one side, we have the team that produced WorldShip 8. On the other side, we have the team that rolled out WorldShip 9. On one side we have the team that keeps the payroll systems going on the other we have the team responsible for PMT2 and the cluster that was the HDFS8 rollout.

Disagree with who the most hated person in UPS is. My personal take would be my corporate manager, but he may only be the most hated man in TSG

It'll be a shame to see the IS people go because that is NOT an easy job, especially not in a company as regulated as UPS. Kinda funny that they're going after Louisville. Didn't they hire new specialists from the IS Boot Camp last year?

Was that a Cisco router? the terminology looks familiar...

and since there seems to be an undercurrent about quality... how did Field Certification miss the fact that DSXP broke the HIP ActiveX? and why was HIP so vulnerable? iShip wasn't affected, neither was Campusship/SOCS

[ImpactedTSG]

Originally Posted by Deeohem

Was that a Cisco router? the terminology looks familiar...

Yes, two serial and two ethernet interfaces. One of the serial interfaces is down. I just copied part of the config so you cant see E0/1..

Hope Mitch starts at the top - the reason Louisville IT is going down hill is too much management - not enough leadership - there is a difference. We don't have it anymore. We know produce paper - not good responsbile business solutions.

[Dfigtree]

So, was anyone laid off?

[alwaysaware]

Been quite a while since I've been on, but I have been following 'threads' and all I can say is 'Yikes'. Lots of rumors, lots of facts, lots of information and lots of misinformation. Seeing the names of some people in IS within posts may not be the right thing to do, but I do laugh at some knowing who they are.

Regarding layoffs in IS - What you might be talking about are particualr jobs and or projects where the number of support staff (programmers up to PM's) needed is much less than the staff in place. Some people have been redeployed and yes, some were given a month to find a job - but I was told that that was HR reps in NJ. Not application support. Some two-units were downgraded to one-unit and some managers with no staff for years were also downgraded.

Just the facts mam', Just the facts!!!

Something else that I find interesting is going on:
IS people are leaving UPS for other companies. The phrase 'better opportunity' seems to come out a lot, or more money. One option level manager left to go work for a smaller company. And, the number of people leaving is not a few, they are many. Yet, we still are hiring in IS. Lots of retirement parties to go to lately too.

The hammer is also coming down too on some. People who got by by never getting written up or were never put on a PIP. Well, those days are over. HR has given 'coaching lessons' on how to write a person up and how to tell someone they are not cutting it. People are being watched when the come in, leave for lunch, how long they take, what time they leave and why were they on the Internet. There are legimate reasons for usining the Internet, but one idiot was downloading songs and day trading. That's dumb and that person is gone. What some forget is that many of these folks work 24X7, get calls in the wee hours of the night, weekends and holidays.

UPS is stuck in the mud and everyone has a reason. Some are valid and some are not (my observation and opinion). I feel that I am paid well for what I do, but a lot of what I was told when I was hired no longer applies (that's the price for going public I guess). We are a different company and who knows what the next 5-10 years hold for us UPS Partners.

What's next ??

[air_upser]

Good post. IMHO NJ is suffering from going public and the money thrown at people in the early 90's to keep them around. I know many folks that were made 2 unit "individual contributors" simply to make up the pay difference between UPS and the internet startups. Times have since changed and things are being done to reduce the number of those folks.

Everyone says it here. .. Going public has changed the way UPS does business. I don't consider upper management partners anymore, and I'm pretty sure they don't consider us partners anymore. Before, it was all about the long term. Now, it's about the quarter.

Before, local management had responsibility and decision-making ability. Now, we are simply pawns. As a manager, partner and shareholder in this company it takes me 3 hours of paperwork and phone calls to make a 5 minute visual inspection on a piece of equipment that I designed, installed, and support. I have so many emails, reports, and phone calls to make when something breaks I literally don't have time to fix the problem. It's incredibly frustrating for most people in IS. We have too many generals that need to justify their position while we do everything we can to make sure UPS runs smoothly.

[Fredless]

Wow, the more I read this board - see the attitudes in my building - theres no good job in this company. I only have 3 years in, and the old timers bitch how bad it is now and they only have a few years left..how will it be in 27 years when I'm due to retire? I knew I was in college for a reason.

Its finding the job that sucks the least.

Shame to hear you guys are losing out on your jobs.

Off topic -Threads like this should be stickied for all of the college kids that started at brown when we were in high school or right ouf of it to just say no to package car driving, and management, and specialist jobs.

always aware--- do I know u ?? sounds like you work in my bldg !

[upscorpis]

Alwaysaware - the conditions you speak of are local to your Portfolio Manager. He's on a rampage lately.

I also know those names mentioned and got quite a chuckle from those depictions.

We've been losing good people as well. The company is no longer giving out titles to folks to make up salary differences so the good ones walk when they hit the boundary to the next unit level. I've been telling those above me for some time that we need to change the compensation system in IT to better compete with the rest of the industry. I mentioned making the entire MIP amount optional cash/stock, 1/4 units or 1/2 units, anything to change the current system to be more competitive. The result of this total rewards thing may do just that.

Layoffs are not an issue where I am. I've not heard about layoffs until reading this thread. We generally have more work than we can get done. For some time, there has been a lot of pressure from the top level to do more with the same headcount. That is beginning to make our architectures too tactical, which shows up later as more cost, lower quality, and slower time to market. The result is evident with recent software releases referred to in an earlier post. I only hope that those who are pressing the gas pedal see that and react accordingly. I've begun to see signs of that occurring.

I'm not entirely enthralled with the way things have gone lately but I can't say I'm all in the dumps either. Business is business and the company has to change with the times. Change is always met with resistance so it is no surprise there so much uproar. I still think the glass is half full but I do admit I'm watching that glass more closely than in the past.

[alwaysaware]

Originally Posted by brownISer

always aware--- do I know u ?? sounds like you work in my bldg !

BrownIser - We may be nothing more than two UPS'rs that pass each other in the hall..

But, I like and appreciate anonimity (sp??)...

[alwaysaware]

Originally Posted by upscorpis

Alwaysaware - the conditions you speak of are local to your Portfolio Manager. He's on a rampage lately.

I also know those names mentioned and got quite a chuckle from those depictions.

We've been losing good people as well. The company is no longer giving out titles to folks to make up salary differences so the good ones walk when they hit the boundary to the next unit level. I've been telling those above me for some time that we need to change the compensation system in IT to better compete with the rest of the industry. I mentioned making the entire MIP amount optional cash/stock, 1/4 units or 1/2 units, anything to change the current system to be more competitive. The result of this total rewards thing may do just that.

Layoffs are not an issue where I am. I've not heard about layoffs until reading this thread. We generally have more work than we can get done. For some time, there has been a lot of pressure from the top level to do more with the same headcount. That is beginning to make our architectures too tactical, which shows up later as more cost, lower quality, and slower time to market. The result is evident with recent software releases referred to in an earlier post. I only hope that those who are pressing the gas pedal see that and react accordingly. I've begun to see signs of that occurring.

I'm not entirely enthralled with the way things have gone lately but I can't say I'm all in the dumps either. Business is business and the company has to change with the times. Change is always met with resistance so it is no surprise there so much uproar. I still think the glass is half full but I do admit I'm watching that glass more closely than in the past.

upscorpis - I mentioned many things that are happening in not just one portfolio. I too do not see layoffs happening.

I am very busy and I do enjoy what I do, but just like you I am not enthralled either with where we are going, how we are doing things and what's important.

The marines have a term 'know your point'. We lost ours.

Yes - the conditions I spoke of are only happening in one area and it's a real shame. Welcome to Rampages and Tirades....

When I see some of the names of people I laugh, but then I feel bad. Bad that it's so noticeable and very bad that it's been going on for way too long.

would the person on a rampage happen to be DJS?

[upscorpis]

<German accent> I know nothing - nothing! </German accent>

yes --- that's what I thought !!

Me thinks it is Rick Moranis on the rampage, he and DJS are just puppets - aren't they all. There is only one puppet master. No plan just accountability. Cut costs. Accountability is good, just long overdue. It is tough when it is obvious but as some of the posts said, it is business. Real issue is that nobody has held portfolio managers accountable - it was not just one person that got these people where they are now - diversity, fast growth, and being in the right place at the right time did it (not Khien Lacey, not Dhavida). Then that sends the message that the manager's behavior is okay. Current situation is okay, just should have been done about 10 years ago. We have an issue of pre-IPO IS and post-IPO IS culture - haves and have nots. Hard to motivate the have-nots when they perceive that the haves are fat & wealthy - not always the case. We need leaders and not followers/listeners and puppets. We do a lot of great things but have no real sense of purpose to execute a strategy. PFT is in and being tweaked, we have the ENTERPRISE release (mistake - too complex, expensive) and too many prioritization layers to get to what we really need to sell to the customers. All are busy and we will execute on what our short term tasks are as good UPSers do. No real next great things - other than telematics to help improve our service levels. Don't forget non-US requirements - that is our growth engine.

What we need is a well educated sales force that can sell small package and SCS products and have solutions that are quick to market and are affordable for our customers. Joining the IT groups is required. We can't grow if we are always shrinking. Frank Erbrick had a good approach - waste anything but time (not the words, but the intent. If we are frugal then we won't be what we need to be. Now SCS is being constrained and it is our growth engine. We need to loosen the reigns to let them execute the IT strategy.) With the right emotional and financial leadership we will kick ***** in the industry. If we don't, all of the previous posts apply - we risk becoming an asterisk in US business history.

Thoughts, comments, improvements????

[Need4Speed]

Quite honestly, I think our I.S. function is nothing short of an abortion, and it's time for a total flush and refill. Not one day goes by when I don't come to the painful realization that I'm never so UNPRODUCTIVE as I am when I'm at WORK! That should be considered a very powerful statement, and should be taken very seriously by IS; but it won't. Rather than have all systems work together, and available after the first login, I have to login to each system separately. Then every different system has different criteria for USERID/PWD. Some have to be changed periodically; some don't... how do you keep up with it? I now have to keep a file to track the different USERID's and Passwords for each system. Then, once you're in to any of the UPS applications, very few of them are even marginally intuitive to use (who, BTW, came up with that awful QPR system). Bottom line... the goal of any I.S./I.T. group should be to make everyone as productive as possible. We score an "F".

[Dfigtree]

Well if you must quote FXE, then a Mr. Douglas C. Caffrey Fields quote or two is in order.

"Without a plan, failure is a certainty." DCF Corporate's strategic plan is meant to flow into your new evaluation form but has that ever happened? You always have to fake your own goals. No strategic plan leads to no marketing plan leads to failure.

"Dig your trenches deep and keep your head down." DCF The best advice, the only sensible advice, he ever gave me and I did not listen. This has to do with the WEAKEST LINK theory of management selection where, on the show, the weakest contestants always vote off the strongest contestant early in the game because they could. They have the strength in numbers. If they wait too long then they will be the prey, That is how you get weak management. Do you really think Rick Moranis (of course not his real name) is qualified for his position?

[ncrtscisme]

Originally Posted by ImpactedTSG

Everything is based on seniority or length of service at UPS, not performance. The TSG cuts were based on how long you were with the company. I was a Tech II, but Tech I's that were about as dumb and lazy as you can get kept their jobs because they had been there for 10 years part time unloading trucks.

I was there, too, and you ain't kidding. I saw TSGers with less seniority than me (I was at the helpdesk) get jobs as drivers because they were in good with HR people at their hubs...while us helpdesk folks, who didn't have the luxury of being out in the hub making friends with important people, had to choose between working graveyard shift at CACH and a severance pay.

It's all based on seniority at UPS...saying that performance really matters is just not true when it comes to laying people off.

[disillusioned]

In some instances, performance matters. More correctly, potential performance matters. You can be the best shinning star in the past but if the outlook isn't that good for what you may be expected to do, then sorry. There's no loyalty for past performance.

Look, this is just a different company than it was. There was a time when UPS was a great company to work for. We largely took care of our own. We promoted from within. We had long range plans. We developed people. Yes, in operations, you were barked at. I was, and I also did my share of barking. But, when the sort was over, we'd all end up at the same place for beer.

That company, that entity, the family you knew and sometimes hated as UPS, is no longer. That family you knew was sold during the IPO. We made this mistake once before. In the 1920’s we needed money to expand out of the west coast and sold our stock to investment bankers. In 1929, we bought ourselves back and Jim Casey vowed we’d never make that mistake again. Ooops! Today, UPS is the equivalent of any blue chip company (minus the increasing stock value). Today, the outlook of UPS is next quarter and to a lesser extent, next year.

People with little real knowledge of what we do (deliver packages) and what customers want are doing what they think is the right thing to build the business. Unfortunately, the view is that UPS needs more structure and control (gotta keep costs down). Consequently, people like center, division, district and IS managers are not allowed to make any decisions about their operations. This approach also leads to what some in this thread are complaining about. When an organization seeks to increase control from the top, it requires more resources at the top simply to keep an eye on, and a lid down on, the rest of the company. These people don’t need to be terribly competent to keep an eye on things, just able to take direction and perform. (Individual thought tends to erode that whole control thing).

Simply put, UPS is what it is. The days of glory and 2 and 3 + MIP are gone. We are running head long down a road of strict control; cost and otherwise. The future will be one of minor (if any) stock value growth, diminishing compensation, increasing demands on employees to “share the burden of health care” and increasing demands to do more with less. This will be true for both union and management. So, hold on if you can. I don’t know of a way out of this future since there is more stock out there than we can afford to buy back. And with the contract coming due soon….

In the past, UPS’ vision and purpose were things like “best service, lowest rates” and “to run the tightest ship in the shipping business”. Today, our reason for being is nothing more than “to maximize shareholder value”. We have become nothing more than grist in the wheels of the stock market.

[alwaysaware]

OK - Lots of problems mentioned and lots of people to blame.

Yep, we are now the post IPO UPS IT department. The look and feel I sense is not good, not productive. Not everywhere, but we lost our synergy.

Does anyone have any solutions??

[upscorpis]

I believe the accountability trend is about creating opportunity for talented people that cannot move forward due to dead wood. The scenario is something like this:

Red Chief: Why is it we have no two and three unit people on the bad apple list. Are you trying to tell me each and every one of those folks is performing up to expectations? We need to raise the bar and if some cannot make it, we'll be able to make room for the more talented, younger folks below them.

Portfolio Chiefs: Got it, Boss.

The result has been each Portfolio has acted on this call to action in a different way. Some have gone ballistic while others have taken a more measured approach. I personally think it's high time this issue was addressed. I can't say I agree with every approach to it.

Those throwing stones at IT due some internally facing applications are only seeing part of the picture. Our customer facing applications are consistently ranked above those of the competition. The DIAD is a big success. Some of our Airline systems are world class. It's safe to say you cannot throw a blanket over all of IT and call it a problem. I personally have witnessed ineptitude and brilliance in the IT function. It all depends on where you look.

Those that cannot understand the technology need to be moved out. The days of, "I can be a successful IT manager by just managing people", need to end. My experience is those that feel that way have bailed out on the technology side because they can no longer keep up. The "business reps" in IT for the most part do not have what it takes to be truly effective. Most don't know technology. I cannot tell you how many times my IT business rep (you may know that group by a three letter acronym) tells me how un-technical they are. Yet, the represent IT to the business. In today's world, technology decisions represent cost and competitiveness. Why would I want some non-technical person making those decisions?

For IT to provide maximum value, IT needs to be closer to the sponsors of projects. I personally see no need for a "business rep" to be in the middle. Additionally, VP level territorial conflicts need to end. It's pathetic to watch how some of these people draw their lines of demarcation and act as if they know more than the rest of us. We all work for the same company so lets start acting like it.

[alwaysaware]

I heard and know about the 'Red Chief' to Portfolio Chief decree. Should never of come to that beacuse some take it way beyond the limit as if it's part of their QPR to all of the sudden whack down a few people.

Accountability - absolutely.... To ourselves and our partners.

We lack direction.

Business Reps - those are the folks who complain about IT and how much of their MIP is being eaten away at by the cost of IT. 'Their MIP'... Their the reason we can't get anything done.

Anyone hear about the Systems Manager who walked out because he would accept being dowgraded ?? There have been others (not SM's, but others).

Unfortunately - there are some well protected SM's at UPS who cannot cut it but get by, all the while their portfolio manager is watching the clock.

[disillusioned]

It's unfortunate that the decree is being handled in the manner it is being handled in. Having started in operations and migrated to IS, I remember when accountability was king. I also remember that managers would address non-performers individually. Instead it sounds like none of that is happening and the "Red Chief" (CIO) is phrasing things in a way that suggests a hunting process. Why aren't employees, managers & portfolios being held accountable?

I recently needed to get approval from my portfolio on something. S/he, of course, waited well beyond the drop dead date we needed to stay on plan, but yet I'm expected to make up that time and stay on plan? Why can't the portfolios be held accountable for their impact due to lack of leadership or action?

Simply raising the bar in an attempt to identify poor performers will result in a spiral, eventually resulting in the bar reaching the level where one must walk on water, cure the common cold, heal lepers and so on. I'm not convinced that raising the bar (expectations) alone is the correct thing to do. In addition, why should it be the CIO that needs to raise the bar? The real issue, in my opinion, is accountability at the higher levels. Frankly my portfolio Mgr has trouble determining the difference between a computer chip and a potato chip (except one of them tastes good). However, s/he has an excellent knack for publicly tearing someone down to their ankles over something the portfolio Mgr could not hope to understand.

[SimpleUPSer]

I have been following this thread and finally decided to add to it. Please also note that this is my first post to Brown Cafe!!!

Many of the comments seem to make sense, and while I do not get to observe any of the antics of the portfolio managers myself, based on the details posted, it sounds like the atmosphere leaves something to be desired.

Some of the items I would like to comment on:

• Comments of accountability past versus present - There are so many more applications and systems to support, and the growth of the IS infrastructure most likely contributed to the accountability issues - that being said, it should have at lease started to improve by now...

• I disagree about the comment about an IT background being needed to be a successful manager in an IT/IS environment. Understanding the job is important, but is a technical background a necessity? Are not most of the positions based on planning, organizing, priortizing, direction and leadership? I have known many technical people who can write code like no tomorrow, but when it comes to the traditional skills needed to run the business they fall short. The mix of people should compliment the entire team. If leadership is lacking, then many of the other items noted will suffer. If leadership is good, then these issues seem to go away...

• The debate about which job is more important, the package handler, service provider, network engineer or technician are moot. People for the most part have jobs they enjoy. Based off of that, most others will never truly understand, or want to try the other jobs. Granted, there are some who have done multiple things and have the insight and the big picture of how it all comes together, but each position is equally important to the success of our organization. I know service providers that think of technology as their DIAD, and are totally unaware of all of the other IS/IT tools that they are exposed to each day. I also know IS people who have never set foot in a package facility (center or hub). Both have serious drawbacks. Unfortunately, I do not have an solution (at least one that everyone would like anyway ).

• I looked back and was unable to find it, but I thought someone mentioned that we needed to get more sales folks to get business. Consider this; we are no where near competitive when it comes to price. I say this without factoring in the incented customers, or those who benefit from an integrated solution. All things being equal, our prices are higher than our competitors. What does that leave us with? Service. We can get all of the new customers that are out there, but if we cannot deliver packages to our customers timely and without paying GSRs, it will not matter. Misloads, LIBs, and damages are at levels that are downright embarrassing, and ALL of us are to blame. Our excuse is that "it is just a part of doing business", as opposed to "it needs to improve if we want to stay in business".

Forgive my rants, and my intent is not to offend anyone if I did. All of the people at UPS can impact the organization. The way in which we choose to impact UPS, positively or negatively, is contingent upon our attitudes.

Comments welcome!