Layoffs in I.S.

[alwaysaware]

SimpleUpSer - Welcome aboard. You have a central theme, or I detect one; Accountability. All of our jobs are important. If we didn't do them right, well let's just say we would be waking up in the morning watching our neighbors going to work and not because you've retired.

IT people in some cases make the worst managers. I've come across them. Some IT people make good managers - it's how you are groomed and mentored. The business folks I've come across have a low opinion of IT - I hope it's not universal.

As far as competetion - We are getting are backsides busted. We lost our hunger. We are NOT the only game in town. Project Lead - Sales people in the centers were ignoring them.

We need to be hungry again.

[Salesguy]

Did you make sure you've openend an TSG self service order, before you opened this thread?

[upscorpis]

Originally Posted by SimpleUPSer

• I disagree about the comment about an IT background being needed to be a successful manager in an IT/IS environment. Understanding the job is important, but is a technical background a necessity? Are not most of the positions based on planning, organizing, priortizing, direction and leadership? I have known many technical people who can write code like no tomorrow, but when it comes to the traditional skills needed to run the business they fall short. The mix of people should compliment the entire team. If leadership is lacking, then many of the other items noted will suffer. If leadership is good, then these issues seem to go away...

I think we're in agreement here. I know plenty of people that can do project management that are not effective running an IT project. I have also seen plenty of talented programmers that cannot manage their own time let alone someone else's. There are many people that can understand the technology and can also do project management. Being able to live in both worlds makes for a much more effective IT manager than the a manager the can live in just one. Having balance on a team is important. I would not equate having a non-technical manager as balance - it's a disadvantage.

[CleverNick]

In my corner of the Corp IS world, I don't see any layoffs going on. However, there has been an increase in retirements and people leaving the company. I am not sure if any of those people were "encouraged" to leave ot not.

If there is a move to eliminate poor performers, like some people have suggested, I HOPE management will apply those standards uniformly and fairly, and I HOPE the decision is based upon REAL criteria and not some BS thing like "he left 5 minutes early one day last month" or whatever.

One challenge management will face is that it is hard to suddenly hold people accountable if they've been allowed to slide for awhile. As any parent knows, it makes no sense for you to let your child get away with something 1000 times without disciplining them, and then out of the blue you ground them when they do it the 1001st time. That is bad parenting, plain and simple.

Also I just wanted to put my 2 cents in on this debate about whether you need to be technical to be a good IS manager. I have seen non-technical people be excellent managers of technical project. Usually, they have one or two technical people that report to them that they rely on heavily. Of course, that is one of the principles of good leadership: surround yourself with good people and value their opinions.

The bad non-technical managers usually don't surround themselves with good technical people and/or they don't listen to their technical opinion.

[Dfigtree]

<<Also I just wanted to put my 2 cents in on this debate about whether you need to be technical to be a good IS manager. I have seen non-technical people be excellent managers of technical project.>>

Then you must agree that a person without a non-transportation background would make a great NEXT UPS CEO. Too bad Chainsaw Al is unavailable.

[peacock71]

DFIG....

I do believe the quote from the mighty DCF was 'without a plan, failure comes as a complete surprise.' My corrolary was 'you can't change a plan unless you have one.'

INteresting posts...although the mentioning of names I find somewhat inappropriate.

Go UPS!
P71

[ImpactedTSG]

Originally Posted by peacock71

DFIG....


INteresting posts...although the mentioning of names I find somewhat inappropriate.

Why? It's all about accountability, and what better way than to be called out for decisions you make?

[boiled frog]

Originally Posted by CleverNick

If there is a move to eliminate poor performers, like some people have suggested, I HOPE management will apply those standards uniformly and fairly, and I HOPE the decision is based upon REAL criteria and not some BS thing like "he left 5 minutes early one day last month" or whatever.

The only way any effort to eliminate poor performers could POSSIBLY be successful is if it starts at the top. If there are poor performers at the top deciding who the poor performers below them are it will just turn into a bigger mess than it already is. What do you think are the odds that any of the incompetent portfolio managers from F&A will get the boot? Pretty much zero IMHO.

[Dfigtree]

Originally Posted by boiled frog

The only way any effort to eliminate poor performers could POSSIBLY be successful is if it starts at the top. If there are poor performers at the top deciding who the poor performers below them are it will just turn into a bigger mess than it already is. What do you think are the odds that any of the incompetent portfolio managers from F&A will get the boot? Pretty much zero IMHO.

It's the Weakest Link theory in practice.

Don't get me wrong. IMHO there were some great leaders in I.S. or is it I.T. I may be in the minority on this, but I thought FXE was a great leader and motivator, fits and all. GBL was terrific. JXS was, up until near his last working days, super. I've been gone for a while now but as far as the decline of I.T. is concerned, it began when JXS began planning to leave and then left. He went sailing down the intercoastal and I.T. went sinking like the Titanic.

[upscorpis]

Originally Posted by CleverNick

Also I just wanted to put my 2 cents in on this debate about whether you need to be technical to be a good IS manager. I have seen non-technical people be excellent managers of technical project. Usually, they have one or two technical people that report to them that they rely on heavily. Of course, that is one of the principles of good leadership: surround yourself with good people and value their opinions.

The bad non-technical managers usually don't surround themselves with good technical people and/or they don't listen to their technical opinion.

Interesting timing that I ran across this quote today in the May 21st ComputerWorld in a column by Frank Hayes Sr. who's covered IT for more than 20 years:

"... IT needs people who understand the technology and understand the business - people who can talk the business talk and walk the technology walk. That's the kind of IT that delivers maximum business value...."

[boiled frog]

Originally Posted by Dfigtree

It's the Weakest Link theory in practice.

Don't get me wrong. IMHO there were some great leaders in I.S. or is it I.T. I may be in the minority on this, but I thought FXE was a great leader and motivator, fits and all. GBL was terrific. JXS was, up until near his last working days, super. I've been gone for a while now but as far as the decline of I.T. is concerned, it began when JXS began planning to leave and then left. He went sailing down the intercoastal and I.T. went sinking like the Titanic.

FXE being Frank and GBL being Barry? I'm drawing a blank on JXS.

[arunsenior04]

Originally Posted by Need4Speed

Quite honestly, I think our I.S. function is nothing short of an abortion, and it's time for a total flush and refill. Not one day goes by when I don't come to the painful realization that I'm never so UNPRODUCTIVE as I am when I'm at WORK! That should be considered a very powerful statement, and should be taken very seriously by IS; but it won't. Rather than have all systems work together, and available after the first login, I have to login to each system separately. Then every different system has different criteria for USERID/PWD. Some have to be changed periodically; some don't... how do you keep up with it? I now have to keep a file to track the different USERID's and Passwords for each system. Then, once you're in to any of the UPS applications, very few of them are even marginally intuitive to use (who, BTW, came up with that awful QPR system). Bottom line... the goal of any I.S./I.T. group should be to make everyone as productive as possible. We score an "F".

OMG...You have taken the words out of my mouth. I just recently started in IS as an intern, and I keep a file for all my usernames and pwds.

[brownISer]

first name rhymes with berry and the last name rhymes with bags

[boiled frog]

Originally Posted by brownISer

first name rhymes with berry and the last name rhymes with bags

OK, I got it now. I'm not sure I share your high opinion of these three though.

[brownISer]

wasn't my opinion....

[slyfox]

To Anonymous Cward in Lou:
Maybe if you fools in LVL would play by the rules and follow UPS standards, those of us here in NJIS would not have to "pick up the pieces" of your failed projects. Since you live and work in the middle of nowhere, I guess I can understand how you believe you are doing a good job, keeping your little piece of the puzzle working. Unfortunately, there is more to running UPS than the airline. You obviously have no idea of the impact on the rest of the company your actions in LVL can have. But then again, being in NJIS, I guess we don't do very much here. Just write and support most, if not all of the applications, infrastructure, mainframes, midrange, you know, stuff like that, all over the world. Maybe we should move IS to LVL and hire talented cow milers like you.

[SeniorGeek]

Originally Posted by slyfox

... you fools in LVL... ...your failed projects... ...middle of nowhere... You obviously have no idea... ...cow mil[k]ers like you.

Be a Leader: How to Change People Without Giving Offense or Arousing Resentment

[jules23]

Originally Posted by slyfox

To Anonymous Cward in Lou:
Maybe if you fools in LVL would play by the rules and follow UPS standards, those of us here in NJIS would not have to "pick up the pieces" of your failed projects. Since you live and work in the middle of nowhere, I guess I can understand how you believe you are doing a good job, keeping your little piece of the puzzle working. Unfortunately, there is more to running UPS than the airline. You obviously have no idea of the impact on the rest of the company your actions in LVL can have. But then again, being in NJIS, I guess we don't do very much here. Just write and support most, if not all of the applications, infrastructure, mainframes, midrange, you know, stuff like that, all over the world. Maybe we should move IS to LVL and hire talented cow milers like you.

wow...that was rude...and smells a lot like the pot calling the kettle black. no one is perfect (especially not NJIS)...and you can't always have success without failure, but you can throw more money at it and make it an even bigger cluster:censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:.

[air_upser]

Sly, I can certainly understand some of your frustration and perception. Folks in Louisville can do a better job at times working with NJ on projects, especially those that are expected to be deployed to gateways around the world. However, do not think anybody in NJ is smarter or more technical than anyone in Louisville. I've worked in both locations, and if fact, I equate a supervisor in Louisville to a manager in NJ. The IT market in Louisville is not the same as NJ/NY and UPS can afford to to pick the best here. Unfortunately, that's changing because of the pay/benefits/retirement changes that has been made, but for the most part it's still true. You also have to realize that the airline demands different standards that the rest of UPS. Not my decision but it's something I have to follow. Worldport is the only location in the world where a 20 minute outage can affect 100,000 NDA packages. We have more reduncancy built there than in a datacenter. Is some of it overkill? IMO yes, but I don't sign the appropriations. Louisville also develops standards that are adopted by corp. The bottom line is, I think your opinion would change if you worked here for a few months. And there are more cows 20 minutes North of the pink palace than in Kentucky. We have horses here :-)

[SeniorGeek]

So the term is "horse milkers"?

[dave_socal]

Originally Posted by brownISer

get ready, get set, here they come...

...layoffs are starting in I.S...

folks are being given 1 month to find a new position internally, or hit the streets...

...thanks for all your hard work but you're no longer needed.

...fortunately it is coming at a time when the I.T. job market is hot !

Is it not amazing that when a thread mentions LAYOFFS it gets 4000 or more views. I wish more of those folks would add to this site with a bit of commentary on what they see in thier corner of UPS. Funny how the one "GUY" who you would think would have a opinion on this topic is missing from this thread so far. I mean this "GUY" seems to post his blather on just about every thread. Hmmmm something seems askew or is it ESKEW?

Slyfox....You are right! Everybody except NJ IS is a bunch of cow milkers!:-) Seriously, there are people throughout our company union and non-union which make our company work day to day. Each one of us have a job to do and that job keeps our company running. We need to be allies and not adversaries........

[slyfox]

My apologies to anyone in LVL who took offense to my posting, I was just venting against the rude LVL person who trashed NJIS. There are a great many challenges here at NJIS that LVL folks are not aware of. I work with LVL folks almost everyday, and there are a bunch of great folks down there.

[ISFriendly]

Name a layoff ??? We are actually HIRING....